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Thread: Boris Johnson

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woolyback View Post
    Dont particularly want get involved in this thread but could I point out that both Macron and Merkel have spoken of their ideal of having a Euro Army.
    The reporting wasn't entirely accurate of what Merkel and Macron have said; they want nations within the EU to have common standards, coordination and capabilities (PESCO) - and importantly, to complement NATO; not replace it. These common standards are how NATO operates across to the 29 member states; but much of it is built on US Command and Control functions, which the EU won't be able to utilise if the US doesn't support.

    I'd like to add participation in PESCO (and some of the projects) is entirely voluntary; something the UK and Denmark didn't sign up for in it's entirety.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    The EU army is a total lie.

    Ok you don’t want the EU court to override UK law fair enough. But they only override on human rights issues, to ensure all states have the same standards when it come to personal freedom. The EU human rights acts is based on or very own bill of rights, so it’s hardly foreign law. However if you really want to live in a country where human rights are not enshrined in law then China and North Korea other options.

    During the referendum it was put to me that the only reason I was voting to remain was that i didn’t trust the UK government to ensure that basic human rights will be kept in law. My answer was yes, I don’t trust our government to do this.

    I totally agree with you over Brown and the pension theft. There were al lot on thing that that government did that I was dead against (tuition fees, Iraq etc) so I am no labour voting donkey.

    In your post you haven’t answered the question when has being in the EU personally affected you in a bad way.



    Ps oh it wasn’t the unions that destroyed Pilks, they always had a decent relationship with the workers. What destroyed Pilks was the city money men like Nigel Rudd and Stuart Chambers who took a profitable international UK company and sold it off to make themselves a few million. These are the same city types that are promulgating brexit.
    Re the Courts’ systems, some confusion is creeping in here.

    The European Court of Human Rights is not an EU body. It exists under the auspices of the Council of Europe and includes non-EU countries such as Russia - I doubt that Putin loses too much sleep over it. When people don’t like human rights rulings, they shouldn’t blame the EU.

    The European Court of Justice deals with the enforcement of EU law, such as workers, as opposed to human, rights. Even if we leave the EU but want to continue to trade with EU countries, we will still be subject to its rulings but will have no say in its make up. The same will be true of EU law generally.

    I don’t disagree with the general sentiment of your post but think we should try and keep things as accurate as possible. If someone wants to clarify or better what I have said, I have no objection to their doing so. If we want inaccuracies we can listen to Boris Johnson.
    Last edited by Suttoner; 23rd November 2019 at 16:19. Reason: Council of Europe not European Council

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Daily Mail reader. And the subsequent post about Piliks being crippled by Unions is a contender for stupidest post of the decade.

    I do agree on the value of independents and the desperate need to kick out oxygen thieves such as Rimmer, however.
    If you believe that then about the militant union at Pilkington's, then that is your opinion, but I saw it very different at the time & speaking to many workers! Just like militant council leader Derek Hatton, he used to come in the radio station with his look at me, I'm someone, well even if he had nearly a new suit every time I showed little respect to him, yes people worshipped him until he made so many council workers redundant, hiring a fleet of taxis to deliver their redundancy notices! a champagne socialist

    Talking about champagne socialists, Oh Jeremy Corbyn! ideal how his son Sebastian works for shadow chancellor John McDonnell, well he's son works in Jeremy's office, only fair lol Sebastian has just moved into his trendy apartment in the now trendy East End, apartments sell for £650,000 but Seb only needed to pay £162,500 what a bargain!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaybs View Post
    If you believe that then about the militant union at Pilkington's, then that is your opinion, but I saw it very different at the time & speaking to many workers! Just like militant council leader Derek Hatton, he used to come in the radio station with his look at me, I'm someone, well even if he had nearly a new suit every time I showed little respect to him, yes people worshipped him until he made so many council workers redundant, hiring a fleet of taxis to deliver their redundancy notices! a champagne socialist

    Talking about champagne socialists, Oh Jeremy Corbyn! ideal how his son Sebastian works for shadow chancellor John McDonnell, well he's son works in Jeremy's office, only fair lol Sebastian has just moved into his trendy apartment in the now trendy East End, apartments sell for £650,000 but Seb only needed to pay £162,500 what a bargain!
    whoah there this is a St Helen forum if you want to claim that the unions caused Pilks demise please be aware that there are people on this board who are still working for Pilks and have been through the takeover. The takeover was nothing but the city speculators making a fast buck. It has absolutely nothing to do with the unions or a breakdown in labour relations.

    So please tell me how being in the EU has adversely affected you personally

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    I will say it again the ONLY people to benefit from Brexit will be speculators.
    Learned comment from The Don

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaybs View Post
    If you believe that then about the militant union at Pilkington's, then that is your opinion, but I saw it very different at the time & speaking to many workers! Just like militant council leader Derek Hatton, he used to come in the radio station with his look at me, I'm someone, well even if he had nearly a new suit every time I showed little respect to him, yes people worshipped him until he made so many council workers redundant, hiring a fleet of taxis to deliver their redundancy notices! a champagne socialist

    Talking about champagne socialists, Oh Jeremy Corbyn! ideal how his son Sebastian works for shadow chancellor John McDonnell, well he's son works in Jeremy's office, only fair lol Sebastian has just moved into his trendy apartment in the now trendy East End, apartments sell for £650,000 but Seb only needed to pay £162,500 what a bargain!
    Because I haven’t lived in St Helens since 1981, I’ll leave the Pilks story to others. However, I have been trying to fact check the Sebastian Corbyn stories.

    He became a special advisor to John McDonnell when McDonnell was still a back bench MP and before he became Shadow Chancellor. In other words, he was appointed by someone who few people were aware of at the time. He was not catapulted into some glamorous role. An accusation of nepotism might still stand but it needs to be put in context. However, think about the nepotism rife within the organisations that back the Tories. No Tory can come forward with clean hands when accusing others of nepotism.

    James Cleverly was originally behind a story about S. Corbyn letting an apartment on AirBnB. He insinuated that S. Corbyn had bought the apartment at a discount from a Housing Association, which was untrue. The Housing Association sold the apartment in 2010 and Corbyn bought it in 2016. Other apartments in the block have sold for considerably more but none of the reports say when they were sold or whether they differ in size etc. The story was carried by The Sun, The Daily Mail and The Daily Express, which speaks volumes to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaybs View Post
    If you believe that then about the militant union at Pilkington's, then that is your opinion, but I saw it very different at the time & speaking to many workers! Just like militant council leader Derek Hatton, he used to come in the radio station with his look at me, I'm someone, well even if he had nearly a new suit every time I showed little respect to him, yes people worshipped him until he made so many council workers redundant, hiring a fleet of taxis to deliver their redundancy notices! a champagne socialist

    Talking about champagne socialists, Oh Jeremy Corbyn! ideal how his son Sebastian works for shadow chancellor John McDonnell, well he's son works in Jeremy's office, only fair lol Sebastian has just moved into his trendy apartment in the now trendy East End, apartments sell for £650,000 but Seb only needed to pay £162,500 what a bargain!
    The only thing you saw was the hyperbole of shit papers like the Daily Mail. Fortunately most of its readership will be under the ground in the next 10 years or so.
    The primary reason Pilkington’s were taken over was the same reason many UK or US manufacturers were - the viscitudes of modern day capitalism and the relative short termism of plc models over here versus say the tiger economies of the east. Same with the Honda plant in Swindon. Absolutely nothing to do with Unionism. Times change and thats what happened not some Marxist plot concocted from Lenin’s grave. Preposterous allegations.

    I believe there probably was an ugly element to unions back in the 80s - that was the nature of politics back then but to characterise this as a reason Pilks was ‘lost’ is wide of the mark if not downright lies I must say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post

    I believe there probably was an ugly element to unions back in the 80s - that was the nature of politics back then but to characterise this as a reason Pilks was ‘lost’ is wide of the mark if not downright lies I must say.
    You are right it is downright lies, which calls into question the rest of the claims of jaybs. To try to claim the anti left, right wing narrative about the demise of Pilks on a St Helens forum shows the stupidity and arrogance of this type of political view.

    Pilks was destroyed by the city money men Nigel Rudd and Stuart Chambers.

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    So come on Jaybs name One thing that being in the EU has adversely affected you on a personal level.

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    I want our own laws. Like they have in Scotland. Oh, hang on...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Prez View Post
    Could be a problem for Wire next season...…………..oops, sorry, thought this was a rugby forum.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaybs View Post
    It did use to be!
    This is ONE THREAD out of TWENTY THOUSAND, FIVE HUNDRED AND TWO (currently active in this forum and not including the archive).

    Furthermore, it was started to reference Johnson mentioning Saints when asked what he knew of Rugby League.


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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    The only thing you saw was the hyperbole of shit papers like the Daily Mail. Fortunately most of its readership will be under the ground in the next 10 years or so.
    Not a very nice thing to say about anyone! well The Guardian readership is falling constantly!

    I did not base my comments on the Daily Mail, you are wrong again! it is based on working in the media since leaving school and for over 30 years plus! I will not assume! your facts come from the Mirror!

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    The only thing you saw was the hyperbole of shit papers like the Daily Mail. Fortunately most of its readership will be under the ground in the next 10 years or so.
    The primary reason Pilkington’s were taken over was the same reason many UK or US manufacturers were - the viscitudes of modern day capitalism and the relative short termism of plc models over here versus say the tiger economies of the east. Same with the Honda plant in Swindon. Absolutely nothing to do with Unionism. Times change and thats what happened not some Marxist plot concocted from Lenin’s grave. Preposterous allegations.

    I believe there probably was an ugly element to unions back in the 80s - that was the nature of politics back then but to characterise this as a reason Pilks was ‘lost’ is wide of the mark if not downright lies I must say.
    I'm certainly not a Daily Mail reader and don't agree with its way of reporting and ideals but a lot of decent people read it as a way of getting general news, not to agree with its political leanings, I think that your remark is rather tasteless, and one of the reasons why I have always held the view about never getting into prolonged arguments about religion and politics because inevitably someone will make a remark that on reflection they would later regret

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaybs View Post
    Not a very nice thing to say about anyone! well The Guardian readership is falling constantly!

    I did not base my comments on the Daily Mail, you are wrong again! it is based on working in the media since leaving school and for over 30 years plus! I will not assume! your facts come from the Mirror!

    Was keeping out of this thread but your increasingly bizarre rants need putting into some context.

    You make repeated references on this board to "our" club and town. However I come across posts from you on RL articles on the (shock horror) Guardian website. There you do not disguise your dislike for the club and particularly our Chairman. Your last contribution stated that you were a London Broncos fan and that you wanted Wigan to be champions...… I am not clear what the club did to upset you but it has left you one bitter individual.

    I then stumbled on your twitter account & am surprised that you have time to post on here. You retweet constantly bits of Tory propaganda including the dubious facts you are being called out for on here. Someone who parrots the views of the odious MP for Ribble Valley - Nigel Evans - is certainly on thin ice when asking us to believe innuendo about non Tory politicians.

    Sorry to detail this for you but your hypocrisy particularly annoys me.

    So - instead of regurgitating what you retweet on twitter:-

    Name one thing that being in the EU has adversely affected you on a personal level.

    & what did Eamon do to upset you?

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    Hello Red Vee Army I only pointed out as OP that Boris Johnson only knew one thing about RL and that was the mighty Saints, who just got the league and Champions titles oven ready and done! I will say if our Chairman stood for St Helens South and James Roby for St Helens North it would put a 73 year old woman out of work and a guy who would be better served representing Irish voters on the way to box 13 at College Street with her.

    The club is now the real positive in the town and it proves get the right people in charge in any walk of life and look what can happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    Was keeping out of this thread but your increasingly bizarre rants need putting into some context.

    I then stumbled on your twitter account & am surprised that you have time to post on here.
    Sorry to detail this for you but your hypocrisy particularly annoys me.

    So - instead of regurgitating what you retweet on twitter:-

    Name one thing that being in the EU has adversely affected you on a personal level.

    & what did Eamon do to upset you?
    Everyone has the right to opinions, and I respect that, a few friends have different opinions to me, but we accept it!

    Yes one of my close friends from radio worked for Bronco and when I ended my connections with BARLA as a Lancashire & Great Britain Youth selector I sponsored many of their players until I retired, I have never hidden that! Again one friend's son played for Warrington & Wigan, yes I went to many of his games, I am not parochial, I love the game itself, not just one club,as I did as a youngster at Knowsley Road, that is not hypocrisy, it's being honest!

    Again and I have mentioned it here on a thread I finished regularly watching Saints in my early 20's, I ran a St Helens Amateur RL Club, with an Under 16 and Under 18 side, at that time St Helens had a minimum of 8 Under 16's team in The North West Counties League, Andy Platt played for us when at West Park. Then the St Helens Board decided to start their own team as a The Crusaders, we debated it with the Saints board many times what this would do the the local game,but they did not agree, and within a season it was down to just two local Under 16's teams! interesting no other professional side choose this path? It was then I was asked to become a BARLA Lancashire Youth Selector and two years later a Great Britain Youth Selector, so weekends were taken being sent to watch players to assess them, and was not able to watch as much live professional matches. I was born in the town and never moved out except working in London for a short six month period to set up a new radio station so of course my home town club interests me.

    I stated clearly I do not agree with Our Countries Courts & Laws being controlled by The EU, I will never change from that.

    Eamon? indifferent, no one upsets me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woolyback View Post
    I'm certainly not a Daily Mail reader and don't agree with its way of reporting and ideals but a lot of decent people read it as a way of getting general news, not to agree with its political leanings, I think that your remark is rather tasteless, and one of the reasons why I have always held the view about never getting into prolonged arguments about religion and politics because inevitably someone will make a remark that on reflection they would later regret
    As I said it saddened me what was said, I am sure there are Saints supporters who may read the Daily Mail and are nearing or over 70! I used to spend around £25 a week on newspapers, now it is only the two rugby papers I buy, and anything I read if I am going to repost it I always check for a second reference, as both broadcast & news print these day have far too many opinionated comments as facts! so just don't trust them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaybs View Post
    Everyone has the right to opinions, and I respect that, a few friends have different opinions to me, but we accept it!
    You have a right to your own opinion but not your own facts. In the posts before you were stating things as fact that were simply not true. You were not expressing an opinion.


    Quote Originally Posted by jaybs View Post

    I stated clearly I do not agree with Our Countries Courts & Laws being controlled by The EU, I will never change from that.
    Ok so when was the occasion that this adversely affected you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    Name one thing that being in the EU has adversely affected you on a personal level.
    I could write a 2000 word essay to answer that question! But I won’t bore you. Instead I will give you two examples.

    Firstly, being in the EU has completely destroyed my faith in democracy. The democratic deficit that exists worries me a lot. The trajectory of the EU and its stated aim of enhanced integration, was the main reason why I voted to leave.

    The European commission consists of unelected officials who lack democratic accountability. And given how far we’ve come since joining, it’s at least a little unnerving to consider how much more politically integrated the EU will be in 10 years’ time.

    Our politicians (from both sides) may still make awful decisions, but at least they are accountable to us and we are able to kick them out every five years.

    Secondly, being in the EU has had dire consequences for the poorest people in this country.

    Enhanced European integration has massively increased the mobility of labour. Therefore, people with low status, poorly paid jobs and few qualifications, find themselves in direct competition with similarly low-skilled labour from other EU countries. This has limited job opportunities and has driven down wages.

    I am fortunate enough to earn an average wage and so this hasn’t adversely affected me personally, but I know some people who have been.

    People on this board are entitled to their own opinion. I have expressed mine. Nobody has to agree with it. Trust me, I don’t lose any sleep because of left wing or right wing remoaners.

    It amazes me how anyone can vote for a political party that refuses to implement the will of the British people. But come the 13th December, I will wake up to find that once again, the fine people of this great town of ours, have elected a Labour party puppet with a 24,000 seat majority.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saint87 View Post
    I could write a 2000 word essay to answer that question! But I won’t bore you. Instead I will give you two examples.

    Firstly, being in the EU has completely destroyed my faith in democracy. The democratic deficit that exists worries me a lot. The trajectory of the EU and its stated aim of enhanced integration, was the main reason why I voted to leave.

    The European commission consists of unelected officials who lack democratic accountability. And given how far we’ve come since joining, it’s at least a little unnerving to consider how much more politically integrated the EU will be in 10 years’ time.

    Our politicians (from both sides) may still make awful decisions, but at least they are accountable to us and we are able to kick them out every five years.

    Secondly, being in the EU has had dire consequences for the poorest people in this country.

    Enhanced European integration has massively increased the mobility of labour. Therefore, people with low status, poorly paid jobs and few qualifications, find themselves in direct competition with similarly low-skilled labour from other EU countries. This has limited job opportunities and has driven down wages.

    I am fortunate enough to earn an average wage and so this hasn’t adversely affected me personally, but I know some people who have been.

    People on this board are entitled to their own opinion. I have expressed mine. Nobody has to agree with it. Trust me, I don’t lose any sleep because of left wing or right wing remoaners.

    It amazes me how anyone can vote for a political party that refuses to implement the will of the British people. But come the 13th December, I will wake up to find that once again, the fine people of this great town of ours, have elected a Labour party puppet with a 24,000 seat majority.
    Well said, I couldn’t agree more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaybs View Post
    Everyone has the right to opinions, and I respect that, a few friends have different opinions to me, but we accept it!

    Yes one of my close friends from radio worked for Bronco and when I ended my connections with BARLA as a Lancashire & Great Britain Youth selector I sponsored many of their players until I retired, I have never hidden that! Again one friend's son played for Warrington & Wigan, yes I went to many of his games, I am not parochial, I love the game itself, not just one club,as I did as a youngster at Knowsley Road, that is not hypocrisy, it's being honest!

    Again and I have mentioned it here on a thread I finished regularly watching Saints in my early 20's, I ran a St Helens Amateur RL Club, with an Under 16 and Under 18 side, at that time St Helens had a minimum of 8 Under 16's team in The North West Counties League, Andy Platt played for us when at West Park. Then the St Helens Board decided to start their own team as a The Crusaders, we debated it with the Saints board many times what this would do the the local game,but they did not agree, and within a season it was down to just two local Under 16's teams! interesting no other professional side choose this path? It was then I was asked to become a BARLA Lancashire Youth Selector and two years later a Great Britain Youth Selector, so weekends were taken being sent to watch players to assess them, and was not able to watch as much live professional matches. I was born in the town and never moved out except working in London for a short six month period to set up a new radio station so of course my home town club interests me.

    I stated clearly I do not agree with Our Countries Courts & Laws being controlled by The EU, I will never change from that.

    Eamon? indifferent, no one upsets me!
    Wow did you get a medal for that titanic haul of name drops and advertisement of your cv.
    Perhaps thats why you had the nerve to post the drivel about Pilks on a St. Helens forum.
    I wont hold my breath for any response as you seen to cower to the hills as soon as anyone holds you to account for your bizarre rants.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saint87 View Post
    I could write a 2000 word essay to answer that question! But I won’t bore you. Instead I will give you two examples.

    Firstly, being in the EU has completely destroyed my faith in democracy. The democratic deficit that exists worries me a lot. The trajectory of the EU and its stated aim of enhanced integration, was the main reason why I voted to leave.

    The European commission consists of unelected officials who lack democratic accountability. And given how far we’ve come since joining, it’s at least a little unnerving to consider how much more politically integrated the EU will be in 10 years’ time.

    Our politicians (from both sides) may still make awful decisions, but at least they are accountable to us and we are able to kick them out every five years.

    Secondly, being in the EU has had dire consequences for the poorest people in this country.

    Enhanced European integration has massively increased the mobility of labour. Therefore, people with low status, poorly paid jobs and few qualifications, find themselves in direct competition with similarly low-skilled labour from other EU countries. This has limited job opportunities and has driven down wages.

    I am fortunate enough to earn an average wage and so this hasn’t adversely affected me personally, but I know some people who have been.

    People on this board are entitled to their own opinion. I have expressed mine. Nobody has to agree with it. Trust me, I don’t lose any sleep because of left wing or right wing remoaners.

    It amazes me how anyone can vote for a political party that refuses to implement the will of the British people. But come the 13th December, I will wake up to find that once again, the fine people of this great town of ours, have elected a Labour party puppet with a 24,000 seat majority.
    Was it the will of the British people? I seem to recall it was an advisory vote, perhaps because of how difficult issues like this are to resolve. At any rate a 51/49 % vote is hardly the will of the people; indeed even in a FPP parliamentary system its unlikely such a result would have been anything other than a hung parliament.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saint87 View Post
    I could write a 2000 word essay to answer that question! But I won’t bore you. Instead I will give you two examples.

    Firstly, being in the EU has completely destroyed my faith in democracy. The democratic deficit that exists worries me a lot. The trajectory of the EU and its stated aim of enhanced integration, was the main reason why I voted to leave.

    The European commission consists of unelected officials who lack democratic accountability. And given how far we’ve come since joining, it’s at least a little unnerving to consider how much more politically integrated the EU will be in 10 years’ time.

    Our politicians (from both sides) may still make awful decisions, but at least they are accountable to us and we are able to kick them out every five years.

    Secondly, being in the EU has had dire consequences for the poorest people in this country.

    Enhanced European integration has massively increased the mobility of labour. Therefore, people with low status, poorly paid jobs and few qualifications, find themselves in direct competition with similarly low-skilled labour from other EU countries. This has limited job opportunities and has driven down wages.

    I am fortunate enough to earn an average wage and so this hasn’t adversely affected me personally, but I know some people who have been.

    People on this board are entitled to their own opinion. I have expressed mine. Nobody has to agree with it. Trust me, I don’t lose any sleep because of left wing or right wing remoaners.

    It amazes me how anyone can vote for a political party that refuses to implement the will of the British people. But come the 13th December, I will wake up to find that once again, the fine people of this great town of ours, have elected a Labour party puppet with a 24,000 seat majority.
    I totally agree with the immigration issues you have highlighted, however the real issue isn’t the immigrants, it’s the successive governments taking the economic benefits from the expanding economy that was driven by immigration. But not re-investing that wealth into services, infrastructure, education etc. If they had invested in education then the issue low skill workers would not be as acute

    As to the referendum result, what type of Brexit did everyone vote for? Because Nigel Farage’s idea of Brexit, is different from Rory Stewart’s is different from Frank Field’s I could go on. The point is that all these people with different views of what they wanted out of brexit all ticked the same box. So what type of Brexit did everyone who ticked the leave box want? You cannot answer that nobody can.

    The issue with the leave result is that they spent all their time with the you lost get over it dance that they forget to unite behind a common goal and to continue to drive the narrative of the benefits of leaving.

    After three years of the leave camp fighting between themselves ( Brexit would have happen if the ERG had supported Mays deal) there is only one option left to get a deal and the put it back to the people that is democracy. Democracy is dynamic it isn’t static, that’s why we have election’s at regular intervals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saint87 View Post
    The European commission consists of unelected officials who lack democratic accountability.
    The Commission is the EU version of the Civil Service - they also aren’t elected so lack democratic accountability. Like our Civil Service, the Commission don’t have any real decision making powers; any proposed legislation is voted on by either the European Council (we select our representative) or the European Parliament (we vote on).

    And when you take into account the House of Lords, our Head of State, even the FPTP process in the Commons, we really aren’t in a position to pontificate about democracy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Was it the will of the British people? I seem to recall it was an advisory vote, perhaps because of how difficult issues like this are to resolve. At any rate a 51/49 % vote is hardly the will of the people; indeed even in a FPP parliamentary system its unlikely such a result would have been anything other than a hung parliament.
    I see that you have used the "advisory vote" tactic, but it won't fool me. FAKE NEWS.

    I seem to recall a leaflet coming through my letterbox. Let me jog your memory. This is what it said:

    "This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide".

    That is taken from an official UK Government leaflet, delivered to millions of households up and down the land, paid for by every taxpayer, including you and me. So there it is, in black and white. Word for word. NOT advisory in the slightest.

    It was actually a 52/48 % vote. Sorry to have to correct you on that one.

    Of course it was the will of the British People. 17,410,742 votes to leave. 16,141,241 votes to remain. Simples.

    You cannot compare a general election result to a referendum result. They are completely different. But nice try though!

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