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Thread: Boris Johnson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    I won't be voting, but if I were i would lean toward the Tories, apart from the threat to the NH. After living most of my life in countries without a NH, I realise probably more than most how vital it is. Though, I do think there should be checks on patients eligibility for treatment. Spain has a NH but you will not get treatment without an ID card or an EHIC. With regard to the candidates today, I may have seen worse individually, but together as a pair those two must be among the poorest.
    Its probably a safer bet with the Tories for keeping a stronger economy, Labour would borrow too much without productive assets, its already been mentioned that a few of the really big UK Finance lenders would have second thoughts if Labour came into power. The lending power of the Tories would effectively have a bigger credit score than Labour.

    As regards to the NHS that commitment is more genuine from Labour, but the NHS is so much under the spotlight now that the Tories can't back away from their promises otherwise every man and his dog will go after them.

    For me Corbyn is a really big concern for National Security of the nation, especially if Diane Abbott really does want MI5 to be less effective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Its probably a safer bet with the Tories for keeping a stronger economy, Labour would borrow too much without productive assets, its already been mentioned that a few of the really big UK Finance lenders would have second thoughts if Labour came into power. The lending power of the Tories would effectively have a bigger credit score than Labour.

    As regards to the NHS that commitment is more genuine from Labour, but the NHS is so much under the spotlight now that the Tories can't back away from their promises otherwise every man and his dog will go after them.

    For me Corbyn is a really big concern for National Security of the nation, especially if Diane Abbott really does want MI5 to be less effective.
    Oh the economy as in the deficit is now worse than when they took power despite the most brutal and politically motivated austerity in memory

    I suppose you only buy the Daily Mail for the crosswords, how is Corbyn a concern for National security, yes he most likely won’t take us into conflicts on the other side of the world to help the US out.

    Oh and I’ll see your Diana Abbot, and raise you Jacob Reiss Mogg, Mat Hancock, James Cleverly, Andrea Leadsom, Dominic Raab, Michael Gove.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    I won't be voting, but if I were i would lean toward the Tories, apart from the threat to the NH. After living most of my life in countries without a NH, I realise probably more than most how vital it is. Though, I do think there should be checks on patients eligibility for treatment. Spain has a NH but you will not get treatment without an ID card or an EHIC. With regard to the candidates today, I may have seen worse individually, but together as a pair those two must be among the poorest.
    Genuine question here, how much does it cost to stop non-eligible people from getting treated? Every large organisation will have some waste, if you strive to eliminate waste, inevitably it costs more than the actual waste. The key is a balance to reduce waste as much as is cost effective.

    This doesn’t hold well with headlines of £Xmillion cost to the NHS of health tourism but, taken as a percentage and the cost of having an accounting department 24hrs a day in every A&E to ensure no fraud, it can be more cost effective to accept some waste.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andym View Post
    Jacinta's father is David Ross Ardern a New Zealand diplomat and former police officer. He is currently the High Commissioner of New Zealand to Niue, and served as Niue's police commissioner from 2005 to 2009. In his 40-year police career he spent about 20 years in the Criminal Investigation Branch and five years as Matamata Piako area sub-commander. Hardly a lowly plod on the beat. Many famous people say they're from working class stock but it's all a front. Nepotism rules ok.

    Jacinda was a mere party hack for nine years before she was parachuted into an electorate of her own in 2017 and made leader of party a few months later and Prime Minister a few months after that. But wait, there’s more. Ardern put forward her name for the Labour nomination for the Mount Albert by-election to be held in February 2017 following the resignation of former Labour leader David Shearer on 8 December 2016. When nominations for the Labour Party closed on 12 January 2017, Ardern was the only nominee and was selected unopposed. Convenient, to say the least.
    So a couple of obvious points to raise with this. When you join the Police in NZ - everyone starts as a " lowly plod on the beat" but hey, if you work hard and stick with it you can move up the ranks. Someone with 40 yrs experience would also I'm sure be seen as a good fit for a Police Commissioner in Niue ( one of my favourite of the Pacific Island's i have visited )

    Jacinda Ardern became an MP in 2008 - a list MP under NZ's system meaning she was not directly representing a constituancy, obvioulsy the NZ Labour Party had confidence in her winning a seat and so she gained the nomination for the area when it became available - this is common in NZ politics under MMP - all parties do this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    Genuine question here, how much does it cost to stop non-eligible people from getting treated? Every large organisation will have some waste, if you strive to eliminate waste, inevitably it costs more than the actual waste. The key is a balance to reduce waste as much as is cost effective.

    This doesn’t hold well with headlines of £Xmillion cost to the NHS of health tourism but, taken as a percentage and the cost of having an accounting department 24hrs a day in every A&E to ensure no fraud, it can be more cost effective to accept some waste.
    £300 million is the cost fact checkers put the figure at, however it's a drop in the ocean compared to the 91 billion budget the NHS receives

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    Genuine question here, how much does it cost to stop non-eligible people from getting treated? Every large organisation will have some waste, if you strive to eliminate waste, inevitably it costs more than the actual waste. The key is a balance to reduce waste as much as is cost effective.

    This doesn’t hold well with headlines of £Xmillion cost to the NHS of health tourism but, taken as a percentage and the cost of having an accounting department 24hrs a day in every A&E to ensure no fraud, it can be more cost effective to accept some waste.
    I don't have an answer to your question. Where I live we have an E ID card which costs 25 euros for 5 years. We use it at doctors, hospitals, Chemist etc they just put it into a card reader and have all you details so it saves time and money collecting data. We also use it for the government and city websites. You can check on your taxes, check for planned road works in your area, apply for residents parking etc etc. They also have a law in Belgium "Don't Ask Twice" once the government have your details they are not allowed to ask you for them a second time, it is up to the government to store your info.

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    Error
    Last edited by Belgian Saint; 12th December 2019 at 20:40. Reason: posted twice

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    Oh the economy as in the deficit is now worse than when they took power despite the most brutal and politically motivated austerity in memory

    I suppose you only buy the Daily Mail for the crosswords, how is Corbyn a concern for National security, yes he most likely won’t take us into conflicts on the other side of the world to help the US out.

    Oh and I’ll see your Diana Abbot, and raise you Jacob Reiss Mogg, Mat Hancock, James Cleverly, Andrea Leadsom, Dominic Raab, Michael Gove.
    Getting too late to influence anyone but I’d have put a thumbs up 👍. I don't think these posts change minds anyway.

    I prefer voting for compassion and humanity, the NHS and a good state education system. I won’t vote for tax havens, a party supported by rich Russians who launder their money through London art dealers etc. and other vested interests.

    The Tory Party exists to protect Billionaires and the old land owners. It’s supported by people who think they’re middle class but still have to work for a living; the type of people Johnson mocked at university because their accents weren’t quite right and because their fathers weren’t diplomats or major land owners. In the bowdlerised words of John Lennon they’re “still f.... peasants as far as I can see”.

    Rant over but non-billionaire Tory voters baffle me.
    Last edited by Suttoner; 12th December 2019 at 20:54. Reason: Typo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    Getting too late to influence anyone but I’d have put a thumbs up ��. I don't think these posts change minds anyway.

    I prefer voting for compassion and humanity, the NHS and a good state education system. I won’t vote for tax havens, a party supported by rich Russians who launder their money through London art dealers etc. and other vested interests.

    The Tory Party exists to protect Billionaires and the old land owners. It’s supported by people who think they’re middle class but still have to work for a living; the type of people Johnson mocked at university because their accents weren’t quite right and because their fathers weren’t diplomats or major land owners. In the bowdlerised words of John Lennon they’re “still f.... peasants as far as I can see”.

    Rant over but non-billionaire Tory voters baffle me.
    Great post

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    Great post
    It looks like it will be a bad day. I wonder whether Tory voters will take responsibility when they realise what they’ve done?

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    I have been Labour all my life and would never vote Tory, however Abbott and Corbyn really are a vote killer. In context can St Helens be led by worse individuals than our Parliamentarians and our awful Council with its plethora of idiotic recent leaders who have looked after themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    It looks like it will be a bad day. I wonder whether Tory voters will take responsibility when they realise what they’ve done?
    To be honest there is little in the Conservative manifesto to worry most people. Public spending is increasing and there are no income tax increases and a drop in national insurance contributions.

    The NHS is being promised more investment, although not on the scale of Labour, but the NHS is such an inefficient mess that more money really isn't the answer. This idea that the Conservatives will sell it off or stop it being free seem far fetched, as surely doing that would guarantee an election defeat in 4 years? In terms of benefits, Labour were only going to increase carers allowance, so the majority on benefits wouldn't have seen an increase, so I'm not really sure what people have to worry about in the short term other than Brexit and the country voted for that. There really was no appetite for scrapping that otherwise the Lib Dems would have seen a big surge in popularity. Labour would have done nothing on Brexit other than procrastinate and leave the country in a worse position.

    There are imbalances and areas that need addressing that maybe Corbyn would have gone after, but the chances of him being an effective leader of a country are remote. It's frankly bizarre he was ever elected as leader in the first place as he's so left and such a fantasist that a lot of people simply couldn't vote for him, even ignoring the many dubious aspects of his character and his past. You can see the barbs are starting to come out already with a couple of Labour MPs blaming him personally already on Twitter.

    Those despondent about another four years of the Conservatives should be hoping for a big Conservative win. The bigger the margin the higher the chance that Corbyn stands down or is ousted by his party. He's unelectable, he really is and hopefully now people will realise that. 4 years later with 4 more school years up to voting age, with Brexit no longer a key issue and a stable, progressive leader would see more focus on policy and a potential big swing back to Labour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    To be honest there is little in the Conservative manifesto to worry most people. Public spending is increasing and there are no income tax increases and a drop in national insurance contributions.

    The NHS is being promised more investment, although not on the scale of Labour, but the NHS is such an inefficient mess that more money really isn't the answer. This idea that the Conservatives will sell it off or stop it being free seem far fetched, as surely doing that would guarantee an election defeat in 4 years? In terms of benefits, Labour were only going to increase carers allowance, so the majority on benefits wouldn't have seen an increase, so I'm not really sure what people have to worry about in the short term other than Brexit and the country voted for that. There really was no appetite for scrapping that otherwise the Lib Dems would have seen a big surge in popularity. Labour would have done nothing on Brexit other than procrastinate and leave the country in a worse position.

    There are imbalances and areas that need addressing that maybe Corbyn would have gone after, but the chances of him being an effective leader of a country are remote. It's frankly bizarre he was ever elected as leader in the first place as he's so left and such a fantasist that a lot of people simply couldn't vote for him, even ignoring the many dubious aspects of his character and his past. You can see the barbs are starting to come out already with a couple of Labour MPs blaming him personally already on Twitter.

    Those despondent about another four years of the Conservatives should be hoping for a big Conservative win. The bigger the margin the higher the chance that Corbyn stands down or is ousted by his party. He's unelectable, he really is and hopefully now people will realise that. 4 years later with 4 more school years up to voting age, with Brexit no longer a key issue and a stable, progressive leader would see more focus on policy and a potential big swing back to Labour.

    well that is a very good assessment, its all over now, lets get back to laughing at Jackson Hastings giving the Pies the run around, and start looking for to a 5 year period of Saints domination of the league

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprus View Post
    I have been Labour all my life and would never vote Tory, however Abbott and Corbyn really are a vote killer. In context can St Helens be led by worse individuals than our Parliamentarians and our awful Council with its plethora of idiotic recent leaders who have looked after themselves.
    I voted for Labour for 20+ years until we had all the strikes, my mortgage rate went from 7% to 14.5% and the inflation rate headed towards 20%. When they got rid of Maggie Thatcher and New Labour came in they put the country in serious debt, around that time if I remember it was Labour who a actually privatised some of the NHS and created Project Managers in the NHS on enormous salaries compared to the doctors and nurses. I'm glad we have avoided the running of our country with that toxic trio of Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbot, its up to Boris and his bunch to deliver in the next few years I would have more confidence in that than the Labour Lefties who have completely split the labour vote in this electoral campaign.

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    I don't think it will be a quick fix from this point for Labour after last night the country looks like it's turning more and more into a right wing one

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    To be honest there is little in the Conservative manifesto to worry most people. Public spending is increasing and there are no income tax increases and a drop in national insurance contributions.

    The NHS is being promised more investment, although not on the scale of Labour, but the NHS is such an inefficient mess that more money really isn't the answer. This idea that the Conservatives will sell it off or stop it being free seem far fetched, as surely doing that would guarantee an election defeat in 4 years? In terms of benefits, Labour were only going to increase carers allowance, so the majority on benefits wouldn't have seen an increase, so I'm not really sure what people have to worry about in the short term other than Brexit and the country voted for that. There really was no appetite for scrapping that otherwise the Lib Dems would have seen a big surge in popularity. Labour would have done nothing on Brexit other than procrastinate and leave the country in a worse position.

    There are imbalances and areas that need addressing that maybe Corbyn would have gone after, but the chances of him being an effective leader of a country are remote. It's frankly bizarre he was ever elected as leader in the first place as he's so left and such a fantasist that a lot of people simply couldn't vote for him, even ignoring the many dubious aspects of his character and his past. You can see the barbs are starting to come out already with a couple of Labour MPs blaming him personally already on Twitter.

    Those despondent about another four years of the Conservatives should be hoping for a big Conservative win. The bigger the margin the higher the chance that Corbyn stands down or is ousted by his party. He's unelectable, he really is and hopefully now people will realise that. 4 years later with 4 more school years up to voting age, with Brexit no longer a key issue and a stable, progressive leader would see more focus on policy and a potential big swing back to Labour.
    Am honest assessment. Corbyn has already said he will go before the next election, the sooner the better. Hope he takes Abbot and McDonnell with him, and that they can come up with a decent leadership.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    And I'm going to be f***ing narky today, knowing that the quality of life for my family and millions of others is going to go downhill after today, when that bunch of right-wing shysters and spivs get control and systematically over the next 5 years remove the protections (for workers, the environment, consumers) that being in the EU has brought.
    Exactly. I don't want to hear anyone who voted tory complain about having no job or a crap job, a terrible NHS, underfunded education and lack of police.

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    Friday the 13th ! It really is a scary prospect . The biggest tory majority since Thatcher in 83 and look what she did . She went straight after the big industries Steel, coal and dockers and privatised almost every other industry . Cameron with a hung and minority government went after the public sector workers under the guise of Austerity! Almost bankrupting towns like Ours. What will legacy will Boris and his Cronies leave ? Will local authority's have any non statutory services left in 5 years. Will schools have to push for fund raising to afford basic stationary for our kids . Food banks the size of Aldi? reemergence of IRA on out shores? Aligning ourselves with the Yanks is the biggest fear of all!
    Its heartbreaking how many working class towns voted Tory. Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind! I really fear for the future of our town and country and all those people who sell there labour power in exchange for a wage to get by in life. .

    Our MP’ s are seeming not to popular and in many respects i agree , but my god they have a job on there hands now to keep our heads above the quick sand .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side Of The Moon View Post
    Friday the 13th ! It really is a scary prospect . The biggest tory majority since Thatcher in 83 and look what she did . She went straight after the big industries Steel, coal and dockers and privatised almost every other industry . Cameron with a hung and minority government went after the public sector workers under the guise of Austerity! Almost bankrupting towns like Ours. What will legacy will Boris and his Cronies leave ? Will local authority's have any non statutory services left in 5 years. Will schools have to push for fund raising to afford basic stationary for our kids . Food banks the size of Aldi? reemergence of IRA on out shores? Aligning ourselves with the Yanks is the biggest fear of all!
    Its heartbreaking how many working class towns voted Tory. Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind! I really fear for the future of our town and country and all those people who sell there labour power in exchange for a wage to get by in life. .

    Our MP’ s are seeming not to popular and in many respects i agree , but my god they have a job on there hands now to keep our heads above the quick sand .
    Ex mining towns too going or almost going tory ,hope my dad or everybody who fought Thatcher to a very high cost to themselves to try and save communitys not looking down on this from above

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve17 View Post
    Ex mining towns too going or almost going tory ,hope my dad or everybody who fought Thatcher to a very high cost to themselves to try and save communitys not looking down on this from above
    Is this viewpoint not one of the historical problems within some communities in that you seem to expect people to make judgements today based on events that occurred 40 years ago? A bit like people refusing to buy German or Japanese cars in the 1980s even though they were better quality and value for money than their British counterparts. I have never voted Tory in the 50 years that I have been enfranchised and have generally cast in favour of whichever candidate I consider will best help St Helens (including Marie Rimmer in previous elections). This time I took account of her derisory support for the St Helens electorate that chose Brexit and, even though I was a Remainer, I looked elsewhere. I presume that the swing to the Tories reflects a general similarity of approach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    Is this viewpoint not one of the historical problems within some communities in that you seem to expect people to make judgements today based on events that occurred 40 years ago? A bit like people refusing to buy German or Japanese cars in the 1980s even though they were better quality and value for money than their British counterparts. I have never voted Tory in the 50 years that I have been enfranchised and have generally cast in favour of whichever candidate I consider will best help St Helens (including Marie Rimmer in previous elections). This time I took account of her derisory support for the St Helens electorate that chose Brexit and, even though I was a Remainer, I looked elsewhere. I presume that the swing to the Tories reflects a general similarity of approach.
    No of course i was just thinking back to the miners strike and what would have being the reaction if you had said to someone on the picket line at that time Wakefield would vote for a tory MP by 2019

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    Is this viewpoint not one of the historical problems within some communities in that you seem to expect people to make judgements today based on events that occurred 40 years ago? A bit like people refusing to buy German or Japanese cars in the 1980s even though they were better quality and value for money than their British counterparts. I have never voted Tory in the 50 years that I have been enfranchised and have generally cast in favour of whichever candidate I consider will best help St Helens (including Marie Rimmer in previous elections). This time I took account of her derisory support for the St Helens electorate that chose Brexit and, even though I was a Remainer, I looked elsewhere. I presume that the swing to the Tories reflects a general similarity of approach.
    Exactly people have more information these days and its debated to death, quite a lot of working class people decades ago would have voted the same way as there mum + dad, now you can judge to your personal preferences in your life.

    I was speaking to quite a few college students this morning and quite surprised that only 1 in 3 bothered to vote, couple of them suggested a digital vote through a social media platform or something similar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Exactly people have more information these days and its debated to death, quite a lot of working class people decades ago would have voted the same way as there mum + dad, now you can judge to your personal preferences in your life.

    I was speaking to quite a few college students this morning and quite surprised that only 1 in 3 bothered to vote, couple of them suggested a digital vote through a social media platform or something similar.
    The apathy among the younger voters is quite surprising especially given the claims that it is their future that will be most significantly affected by Brexit. My wife heard this morning that of those people who were too young to vote in the referendum but have since become of age only 18% voted yesterday.

    As far as a digital vote is concerned, I’m unsure about the security of that approach given manipulation of systems that the likes of Google and Facebook are accused of, the inabilities of major banks to provide uninterrupted digital banking, the number of spam emails that I receive or the Russians/Chinese wishing to change the parliamentary representatives of St Helens. At least the current manual system is more difficult to influence and if people can’t be bothered to register and then submit a postal vote or go to the nearest polling station perhaps they are not deserving to have their opinion considered. Indeed, I often wonder whether failing to vote should result in the loss of the right to do so for the next election unless there are valid reasons for not doing so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side Of The Moon View Post
    Friday the 13th ! It really is a scary prospect . The biggest tory majority since Thatcher in 83 and look what she did . She went straight after the big industries Steel, coal and dockers and privatised almost every other industry . Cameron with a hung and minority government went after the public sector workers under the guise of Austerity! Almost bankrupting towns like Ours. What will legacy will Boris and his Cronies leave ? Will local authority's have any non statutory services left in 5 years. Will schools have to push for fund raising to afford basic stationary for our kids . Food banks the size of Aldi? reemergence of IRA on out shores? Aligning ourselves with the Yanks is the biggest fear of all!
    Its heartbreaking how many working class towns voted Tory. Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind! I really fear for the future of our town and country and all those people who sell there labour power in exchange for a wage to get by in life. .

    Our MP’ s are seeming not to popular and in many respects i agree , but my god they have a job on there hands now to keep our heads above the quick sand .
    You can bet that none of the traditional Lib Dem and Labour voters that voted for the Conservatives even considered those points. Whilst you are on the subject of looking back at the Thatcher years, looking back at Labour's recently governments wouldn't be good viewing either.

    But all your point shows is how badly wrong Labour were in their approach to Brexit. Had they aligned with the Conservatives and vowed to 'Get Brexit done' they might have done better. I think a lot of people underestimated the will of the majority of the country to make Brexit happen.

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    Whoever Labour choose as their next leader, I sincerely hope it's not one of those from his shadow cabinet, otherwise they'll continue wandering down the same path and remain unelectable
    "The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom." Danny Blanchflower.
    Might have been written by a footballer about football - but never a truer word............

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