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Thread: Boris Johnson

  1. #51
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    Our two Labour MPs are absolutely Useless!! £80K a year plus expenses, they are both a Joke, along with our local council, as ar as Town Centres are concerned Warrington & Wigan seem to have no problems, but ours is Dead on it's Feet!

    Not sure what this has to to with Saints?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Perhaps they realise that Brexit will lead to the further impoverishment of the town and its people, as well as the destruction of a raft or protections for workers, for the environment, for the consumer when this bunch of right-wing shysters in government have their fabled 'bonfire of regulations'. And view it as best serving their constituents by not going along with a populist wave that is built on lies, false promises and media manipulation.

    I'm not a slavish EU-phile and know it has many faults. But it's forced this country's governments - often kicking & screaming in the case of the Thatcher/Major era - to implement legislation that has provided wholesale societal improvements.

    I've not had any Brexiteer explain to me one tangible benefit of leaving. Once the "£350m a week for the NHS" bullsh*t had been exposed as a lie, they have nothing beyond some immature and nebulous concept of nationalism.

    Outside of the EU, the country will be toast. We'll be eaten alive by a combination of the corporate monster that is the USA, Putin's oligarchial Russia, and a ruthless China with its 'state capitalism'. As a country, we're a crumbling former power now residing in the 2nd or 3rd division of global importance, with too many of its citizens living in an embittered denial as they look backwards to days of Empire and ruling the waves. It's only via our membership of the EU and the nuclear bombs we rent off Uncle Sam that keeps us relevant.
    I mainly agree and voted to remain. However, I always believed that the democratic process involved the populace expressing their views and the subsequently elected representatives in Parliament doing their utmost to to implement the policies supported by those voters. Both of St Helens’ MPs have failed to do anything to achieve Brexit and in view of that I think they have betrayed the electorate, misguided though it may have been. As an aside, however, I do wonder how many of the prosperous non-EU counties in Europe manage to survive given the picture that you paint of life beyond the Community.

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    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    As an aside, however, I do wonder how many of the prosperous non-EU counties in Europe manage to survive given the picture that you paint of life beyond the Community.

    The only countries that fit the tag of "prosperous non-EU counties in Europe" are Norway & Switzerland.

    Norway not only has oil & gas reserves that are massive in relation to its population, but has kept them nationalised and 'banked' the proceeds to use for the benefit of the country (rather than giving the profits to the already wealthy in the form huge tax cuts in the 80's, whilst bankrolling the de-industrialisation of the UK through failed monetarist economic policy). Switzerland has a huge insurance and financial services (and money-laundering) industry, and again is a relatively small country in terms of population.

    Speaking about bankstering and money laundering, there is a large weight of evidence that one of the factions driving the anti-EU movement has as its core aim escape for EU oversight of the increasing efforts towards financial transparency. The 'Spider's Web' of British Overseas Territories and Crown Dependencies have a thick veil of secrecy. It's not so much about people having secret bank accounts (although it's part of it), more the creation & use of shell companies to hide the beneficial ownership of assets like land, property and shares in/ownership of other companies. They facilitate massive levels of tax dodging and money laundering, which the EU is intent on cracking down on. When senior figures in the 'leave' movement have direct links to this industry either by benefiting from the secrecy of 'offshoring' themselves* or their work revolves around that. The biggest funder of the leave campaign has a lot of questions around the source of his wealth, with open allegations about links to the Putin regime and questioning by Parliament (at which he smirked and refused to answer questions). The increasingly tough Anti-Tax Avoidance Directive and Anti-Money Laundering Directive each sought to strip away the veil of secrecy of the BOTs/CDs and, whilst the UK govt has implemented some watered-down legislation, a hard Brexit with no ECJ oversight would leave the implementation of legislation very much compromised, especially under the government of a right-wing party of shysters funded by big business, corrupt Russian oligarchs and hedge funds.


    * as an aside, the owners of the Daily Heil, Daily Express, Torygraph, Times and Scum are all 'non dom' or similar status that means they don't pay full UK tax



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sp..._Second_Empire

  5. #55
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    There is no benefit to leaving the EU other than to assist speculators.
    Learned comment from The Don

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzz





    Ditto, politics should have no place on this board.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wirefox View Post
    Ditto, politics should have no place on this board.
    It's one thread and if you don't want to partake, just don't open it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    It's one thread and if you don't want to partake, just don't open it.
    At least move it to off topic then, it may have started off slightly about rugby but now it isnt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    The only countries that fit the tag of "prosperous non-EU counties in Europe" are Norway & Switzerland.

    Norway not only has oil & gas reserves that are massive in relation to its population, but has kept them nationalised and 'banked' the proceeds to use for the benefit of the country (rather than giving the profits to the already wealthy in the form huge tax cuts in the 80's, whilst bankrolling the de-industrialisation of the UK through failed monetarist economic policy). Switzerland has a huge insurance and financial services (and money-laundering) industry, and again is a relatively small country in terms of population.

    Speaking about bankstering and money laundering, there is a large weight of evidence that one of the factions driving the anti-EU movement has as its core aim escape for EU oversight of the increasing efforts towards financial transparency. The 'Spider's Web' of British Overseas Territories and Crown Dependencies have a thick veil of secrecy. It's not so much about people having secret bank accounts (although it's part of it), more the creation & use of shell companies to hide the beneficial ownership of assets like land, property and shares in/ownership of other companies. They facilitate massive levels of tax dodging and money laundering, which the EU is intent on cracking down on. When senior figures in the 'leave' movement have direct links to this industry either by benefiting from the secrecy of 'offshoring' themselves* or their work revolves around that. The biggest funder of the leave campaign has a lot of questions around the source of his wealth, with open allegations about links to the Putin regime and questioning by Parliament (at which he smirked and refused to answer questions). The increasingly tough Anti-Tax Avoidance Directive and Anti-Money Laundering Directive each sought to strip away the veil of secrecy of the BOTs/CDs and, whilst the UK govt has implemented some watered-down legislation, a hard Brexit with no ECJ oversight would leave the implementation of legislation very much compromised, especially under the government of a right-wing party of shysters funded by big business, corrupt Russian oligarchs and hedge funds.


    * as an aside, the owners of the Daily Heil, Daily Express, Torygraph, Times and Scum are all 'non dom' or similar status that means they don't pay full UK tax



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sp..._Second_Empire
    Norway established a sovereign wealth fund with its gas and oil revenues - it invested for a better future. Thatcher spent our gas and oil revenues on tax cuts and pretending the economy was booming when it wasnÂ’t.

    I agree with your comments about the harmful effects Brexit will have and the rich Brexiteers motives. I donÂ’t understand why people canÂ’t see through the likes of Rees-Mogg with his inherited wealth safely stashed away in overseas investments.

    Brexit is also a terrible distraction and successfully deflects attention from other issues. I reluctantly went to A&E last Tuesday night. I had an embarrassingly small injury but it wouldn’t stop bleeding. I waited seven and a half hours to be seen. The NHS has gone down hill because of political meddling and, again, I recommend that anyone who gets the chance to do so reads the “Medicine Balls” piece in “Private Eye” of 15 November. Reading “Private Eye” is quite depressing but someone has to do it. Every issue has something about Local Government corruption and incompetence and sadly that isn’t limited to any one party.

    PS Sorry for the funny bits where I’ve used apostrophes.
    Last edited by Suttoner; 18th November 2019 at 13:12. Reason: PS

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    Quote Originally Posted by andym View Post
    Thatcher also sold off most of our assets to foreigners, those nationalised companies that were privatised soon fell into French, German, etc hands. Everyone I know who voted Brexit said the same thing, immigration, Labour and Tories have avoided this issue every time they've elected. Remember Gordon Brown calling some working class woman slyily while private landlords get fat on the government (ie tax payers' money) subsided rents for these invaders. Wages are suppressed as are the rights for the people who actually belong here, while polarisation spreads thus people are fighting between themselves instead of against the 1% who own 99% of the wealth, and have done since 1066. It's the same rulers then as now, they might have changed their names, but they're still the same old leeches running the show.

    The annoying thing about immigration is that, whilst EU freedom of movement has seen an influx of people from Eastern Europe*, for every single year, immigration from outside the EU (over which the Govt has had full control) has been higher than EU immigration.


    * helped drive down the rip-off prices charges by British tradespeople, is this a bad thing? (if you're not a tradesperson, like)

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    Quote Originally Posted by andym View Post
    I bet she can't count them.
    She can eat 4 in one sitting though.

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    We're up to page 240 on the Brexit discussion on Mikes board, though a lot of it is name calling and trolling from both sides of the argument, so think yourselves lucky you are only on page 3!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffs View Post
    Don’t worry Webbo at least those that put us in the mess can all avoid tax regulations that were to be introduced and we can continue to doff our cap to the elite and blame immigrants for the ills of the country.

    To be honest it isn’t worth arguing with a lot of people, particularly working class tories. No one really cared about our membership of the EU five years ago but the gullible are easily whipped into a mouth frothing storm.
    Ffs speak for yourself ffs. I was writing to my MP well over 10 years ago with concerns regarding the consequences of Eastern European immigration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notawiginfan View Post
    Ffs speak for yourself ffs. I was writing to my MP well over 10 years ago with concerns regarding the consequences of Eastern European immigration.
    What are the consequences?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    What are the consequences?
    Polish food sections in supermarkets?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_Claire View Post
    Polish food sections in supermarkets?
    Damn, yes. Well reminded. How can we bear it?

    Oh, and the accents! People speaking with foreign accents. Shifty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Damn, yes. Well reminded. How can we bear it?

    Oh, and the accents! People speaking with foreign accents. Shifty.
    Well with the history of this town with regards the way it treats people with a certain nasally accent (like larrr), it’s only to be expected. I’ve always been a bit wary of Yickers also

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    What are the consequences?
    I’m 69 and when I was at junior and then secondary school there were load of kids with Polish names. Their fathers had come over to help with the war effort either by fighting or mining coal.

    I don’t think any Government ever takes time to explain why immigration is necessary but I think it is necessary in order to maintain growth in the face of relatively low birth rates. Lots of Europeans will no longer consider working in the U.K. and one of my GP’s has told me that’s detrimental to NHS recruitment. The alternative to European immigration is probably Asian or African immigration. Immigration won’t stop because Governments rely on it.

    Being an old fogey I don’t like change myself but there is no path back to the 1950s or 1890s. I even get annoyed when people mis-pronounce Aaron or call French Windows French Doors! Age does such things to you and there’s no doubt you get nostalgic for the past. However no country on the planet can avoid the effects of mass migration. It’s happening everywhere.

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    The issue with immigration is this. Let’s take Poland as an example.

    People come to Britain because the economy is stronger and the jobs pay more than in their own country. Britain’s economy benefits from this because if they weren’t doing these jobs the economy would stall. Either these jobs won’t get done or it would be prohibitively expensive to do them.

    The problem occurs when the number of these immigrants increase and the local services (schools, health care, infrastructure etc)haven’t expanded at the same rate as the economy. This problem could be easily overcome if the government took the increased taxes from the successful economy and reinvested it into these services.

    What has happened is successive governments (a Blair’s was particularly good at this) didn’t invest to the same extent took the taxes from the growth and handed it out as tax cuts. All the while service were coming under increased pressure due to the growth of the economy.

    That is the issue with immigrants not the immigrants themselves but the poor investment in service and infrastructure by the governments.

    So what’s happening in Poland well, it’s economy is vastly different from 20years ago and is start in retain/attract people. So instead of Pole we now get other people from poor countries helping our economy grow quicker than it would.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    That is the issue with immigrants not the immigrants themselves but the poor investment in service and infrastructure by the governments.
    Spot on, there's no immigration issue in the UK. They are just a convenient target for the British press to deflect the working man's ire from the real villains in this country - the government (specifically the Conservatives)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    I’m 69 and when I was at junior and then secondary school there were load of kids with Polish names. Their fathers had come over to help with the war effort either by fighting or mining coal.

    I don’t think any Government ever takes time to explain why immigration is necessary but I think it is necessary in order to maintain growth in the face of relatively low birth rates. Lots of Europeans will no longer consider working in the U.K. and one of my GP’s has told me that’s detrimental to NHS recruitment. The alternative to European immigration is probably Asian or African immigration. Immigration won’t stop because Governments rely on it.

    Being an old fogey I don’t like change myself but there is no path back to the 1950s or 1890s. I even get annoyed when people mis-pronounce Aaron or call French Windows French Doors! Age does such things to you and there’s no doubt you get nostalgic for the past. However no country on the planet can avoid the effects of mass migration. It’s happening everywhere.
    Japan has one of the lowest birth rates and yet they don't let in millions of immigrants. They probably care more for their traditions and heritage than Europe. In twenty years, Europe will be like the US, not a good thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by antwnsaint View Post
    Japan has one of the lowest birth rates and yet they don't let in millions of immigrants. They probably care more for their traditions and heritage than Europe.
    The Japanese are changing their laws to enable foreign workers to be employed for unskilled labour; they are suffering like Western Europe from serious labour shortages due to a rapidly aging/declining population. Rightly or wrongly, the West is falling behind as the world is changing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Perhaps they realise that Brexit will lead to the further impoverishment of the town and its people, as well as the destruction of a raft or protections for workers, for the environment, for the consumer when this bunch of right-wing shysters in government have their fabled 'bonfire of regulations'. And view it as best serving their constituents by not going along with a populist wave that is built on lies, false promises and media manipulation.

    I'm not a slavish EU-phile and know it has many faults. But it's forced this country's governments - often kicking & screaming in the case of the Thatcher/Major era - to implement legislation that has provided wholesale societal improvements.

    I've not had any Brexiteer explain to me one tangible benefit of leaving. Once the "£350m a week for the NHS" bullsh*t had been exposed as a lie, they have nothing beyond some immature and nebulous concept of nationalism.

    Outside of the EU, the country will be toast. We'll be eaten alive by a combination of the corporate monster that is the USA, Putin's oligarchial Russia, and a ruthless China with its 'state capitalism'. As a country, we're a crumbling former power now residing in the 2nd or 3rd division of global importance, with too many of its citizens living in an embittered denial as they look backwards to days of Empire and ruling the waves. It's only via our membership of the EU and the nuclear bombs we rent off Uncle Sam that keeps us relevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    The only countries that fit the tag of "prosperous non-EU counties in Europe" are Norway & Switzerland.

    Norway not only has oil & gas reserves that are massive in relation to its population, but has kept them nationalised and 'banked' the proceeds to use for the benefit of the country (rather than giving the profits to the already wealthy in the form huge tax cuts in the 80's, whilst bankrolling the de-industrialisation of the UK through failed monetarist economic policy). Switzerland has a huge insurance and financial services (and money-laundering) industry, and again is a relatively small country in terms of population.

    Speaking about bankstering and money laundering, there is a large weight of evidence that one of the factions driving the anti-EU movement has as its core aim escape for EU oversight of the increasing efforts towards financial transparency. The 'Spider's Web' of British Overseas Territories and Crown Dependencies have a thick veil of secrecy. It's not so much about people having secret bank accounts (although it's part of it), more the creation & use of shell companies to hide the beneficial ownership of assets like land, property and shares in/ownership of other companies. They facilitate massive levels of tax dodging and money laundering, which the EU is intent on cracking down on. When senior figures in the 'leave' movement have direct links to this industry either by benefiting from the secrecy of 'offshoring' themselves* or their work revolves around that. The biggest funder of the leave campaign has a lot of questions around the source of his wealth, with open allegations about links to the Putin regime and questioning by Parliament (at which he smirked and refused to answer questions). The increasingly tough Anti-Tax Avoidance Directive and Anti-Money Laundering Directive each sought to strip away the veil of secrecy of the BOTs/CDs and, whilst the UK govt has implemented some watered-down legislation, a hard Brexit with no ECJ oversight would leave the implementation of legislation very much compromised, especially under the government of a right-wing party of shysters funded by big business, corrupt Russian oligarchs and hedge funds.


    * as an aside, the owners of the Daily Heil, Daily Express, Torygraph, Times and Scum are all 'non dom' or similar status that means they don't pay full UK tax
    Two outstanding posts.

  24. #74
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    What a discussion about Politics and Brexit that is civilised. This (if it continues) shows that the people on this board are higher than the average intellect.
    Last edited by Bostik Bailey; 20th November 2019 at 20:32.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    The only countries that fit the tag of "prosperous non-EU counties in Europe" are Norway & Switzerland.

    Norway not only has oil & gas reserves that are massive in relation to its population, but has kept them nationalised and 'banked' the proceeds to use for the benefit of the country (rather than giving the profits to the already wealthy in the form huge tax cuts in the 80's, whilst bankrolling the de-industrialisation of the UK through failed monetarist economic policy). Switzerland has a huge insurance and financial services (and money-laundering) industry, and again is a relatively small country in terms of population.

    Speaking about bankstering and money laundering, there is a large weight of evidence that one of the factions driving the anti-EU movement has as its core aim escape for EU oversight of the increasing efforts towards financial transparency. The 'Spider's Web' of British Overseas Territories and Crown Dependencies have a thick veil of secrecy. It's not so much about people having secret bank accounts (although it's part of it), more the creation & use of shell companies to hide the beneficial ownership of assets like land, property and shares in/ownership of other companies. They facilitate massive levels of tax dodging and money laundering, which the EU is intent on cracking down on. When senior figures in the 'leave' movement have direct links to this industry either by benefiting from the secrecy of 'offshoring' themselves* or their work revolves around that. The biggest funder of the leave campaign has a lot of questions around the source of his wealth, with open allegations about links to the Putin regime and questioning by Parliament (at which he smirked and refused to answer questions). The increasingly tough Anti-Tax Avoidance Directive and Anti-Money Laundering Directive each sought to strip away the veil of secrecy of the BOTs/CDs and, whilst the UK govt has implemented some watered-down legislation, a hard Brexit with no ECJ oversight would leave the implementation of legislation very much compromised, especially under the government of a right-wing party of shysters funded by big business, corrupt Russian oligarchs and hedge funds.


    * as an aside, the owners of the Daily Heil, Daily Express, Torygraph, Times and Scum are all 'non dom' or similar status that means they don't pay full UK tax



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sp..._Second_Empire
    spot on Webbo.
    Learned comment from The Don

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