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Thread: GB Lions 2020 Tour

  1. #501
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Sorry Belgian. Didn't mean to upset any posters. I do rant a bit sometimes. I am just really unhappy with the way I feel RL in this country is being ran
    Didn't upset me at all, I agreed with everything you said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    He makes some fair calls. But to ditch GB? Why? Because the coach & administrators are clueless?

    I look at how dedicated & professional the RU Lions are & I despair at our rank amateurism. Using GB as an England trial? I can't actually fully grasp the stupidity & short-sightedness of it. A disaster

    Agree with this wholeheartedly, and disagreed with the 'scrap GB' element of Woods' article. We don't need to scrap it, we need to take a leaf our of yawnion's book* and retain it as the principle vehicle for touring sides. Create a competition for the home nations and France, with an England Knights involvement.


    * as an aside, did anyone else catch that RL introduced the 'Lions' name for our GB touring side 30 years before yawnion, but yawnion has copyrighted the term and now RL can't use it? If anything typifies both the incompetence of the RFL and the 'Establishment odds against us' societal position our game has always suffered from, this is it.

  3. #503
    In The South Stand KentishBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    * as an aside, did anyone else catch that RL introduced the 'Lions' name for our GB touring side 30 years before yawnion, but yawnion has copyrighted the term and now RL can't use it? If anything typifies both the incompetence of the RFL and the 'Establishment odds against us' societal position our game has always suffered from, this is it.
    It's a bit like the 'Rugby' World cup thing. Our authorities should have been on to that too IMO!

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    A bit late coming to this, but I also disagree with Woods's position on scrapping GB.

    What he says is true to an extent - there isn't the staple of Welsh ex-union players that made the need for a GB team obvious back in the day. But what if our bigger clubs want to use salary cap exemptions to recruit Welsh Union (or other home nations) players in the future? Probably the biggest disincentive for a Welsh player thinking of switching codes is the fact that they'd be giving up on their international career. At least if there is a GB side that is taken seriously by the administrators and coaching staff that offers a potential softening of the blow. I remember Jonathan Davies saying that when he switched codes a GB cap straight away became his goal. Obviously it doesn't have anything like the same profile as the RU international game, but it certainly beats playing for Wales RL against Estonia on a school field somewhere.
    Last edited by Dux; 18th November 2019 at 13:31.

  5. #505
    In The West Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Didn't upset me at all, I agreed with everything you said.
    Sorry I misunderstood. Thanks Belgian

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    In The West Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    A bit late coming to this, but I also disagree with Woods's position on scrapping GB.

    What he says is true to an extent - there isn't the staple of Welsh ex-union players that made the need for a GB team obvious back in the day. But what if our bigger clubs want to use salary cap examptions to recruit Welsh Union (or other home nations) players in the future? Probably the biggest disincentive for a Welsh player thinking of switching codes is the fact that they'd be giving up on their international career. At least if there is a GB side that is taken seriously by the administrators and coaching staff that offers a potential softening of the blow. I remember Jonathan Davies saying that when he switched codes a GB cap straight away became his goal. Obviously it doesn't have anything like the same profile as the RU international game, but it certainly beats playing for Wales RL against Estonia on a school field somewhere.
    Superb post

  7. #507
    In The West Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Agree with this wholeheartedly, and disagreed with the 'scrap GB' element of Woods' article. We don't need to scrap it, we need to take a leaf our of yawnion's book* and retain it as the principle vehicle for touring sides. Create a competition for the home nations and France, with an England Knights involvement.


    * as an aside, did anyone else catch that RL introduced the 'Lions' name for our GB touring side 30 years before yawnion, but yawnion has copyrighted the term and now RL can't use it? If anything typifies both the incompetence of the RFL and the 'Establishment odds against us' societal position our game has always suffered from, this is it.
    I didn't know that. I guess union was still 'amateur' at the time that RL had the Lions name first so such a scenario wasn't considered?

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    In The West Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    Exactly. We all know Woods is a clown although it's worrying that some of what he says is true. As you say, Bennett, Sinfield and the other balloons running the game need to take responsibility and step aside. Not for second do I believe that will happen.
    I wouldn't be surprised if he got a new contract

  9. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if he got a new contract
    Neither would I, i cant tell if the RFL is a case of the blind leading the incompetent or the other way round, because either they cant see what everyone else does or they see it and think its good.

  10. #510
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk paulscnthorpe's Avatar
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    I think Grace is the perfect example of why it should be GB, it something for him to play for rather than a Welsh Jersey against teams they realistically have no chance against.

    If it were not for the Lions, Grace may be scrambling around for an English grandparent if he continues his progression.

    I listened to a podcast who said that Grace should have been included and points to the fact in Union there's at least one from each nation, even though it's evidently clear they're not good enough. From a publicity point of view, it's a great story had they picked Grace, and another possible way of promoting the game. I'm not saying we should hand caps out for simply being Welsh, I'm not saying with the greatest of respect taking Gil Dudson because he's Welsh. Would anyone have really complained had Grace been selected?

    The issue I have is Bennett doesn't get that point, I don't think Sinfield could go to Bennett and say "have you considered Grace because of this?" Whereas I think you could sell that to someone like Watson

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post
    I think Grace is the perfect example of why it should be GB, it something for him to play for rather than a Welsh Jersey against teams they realistically have no chance against.

    If it were not for the Lions, Grace may be scrambling around for an English grandparent if he continues his progression.

    I listened to a podcast who said that Grace should have been included and points to the fact in Union there's at least one from each nation, even though it's evidently clear they're not good enough. From a publicity point of view, it's a great story had they picked Grace, and another possible way of promoting the game. I'm not saying we should hand caps out for simply being Welsh, I'm not saying with the greatest of respect taking Gil Dudson because he's Welsh. Would anyone have really complained had Grace been selected?

    The issue I have is Bennett doesn't get that point, I don't think Sinfield could go to Bennett and say "have you considered Grace because of this?" Whereas I think you could sell that to someone like Watson

    You also get players like Knowles - Welsh parentage but born & raised in Barrow. Wants to - and does - play for Wales. If there's a GB side that will tour, then he has the freedom to play for Wales in the knowledge that he stands a chance of playing for GB. Without the GB option, he could get in two minds and may plump for England. That weakens Wales as an international team (especially if other players in a similar boat do the same), which is counter-productive as an uncompetitive Wales isn't an attraction to players, so players choose England, which leaves Wales uncompetitive and unattractive, and so on.

  12. #512
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    If the RFL keep Bennett in his job they are just saying to Rugby League supporters in this country we don't care about you.

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    Learning All The Songs sinkers89's Avatar
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    The 6 P's come to mind with this tour.

    •••• poor planning
    •••• poor performance.

    How the hell Sinfield has anything to do with appointing people is beyond me.


    This was a real chance for RL to promote the game in Wales and Scotland on terrestrial TV at reasonable kick off times.
    If I wasnt willing to get up at some of the stupid times to watch , as an RL fan, why would those who dont know of RL watch it?

    Ultimately it fell on its arse.

    What it needs is a solid 4 year process of advertising, promotion which should start by January 2020.

    Matches not to be played as part of a "triple header" they are to be matches on there own. GB vs Aus or NZ. Kick off at 8pm in Aus is a 9am KO here.

    As some one eluded to earlier in the thread, RU Lions have been advertising the '21 tour to S.A about 24 hours after the final whistle of the N.Z tour. Now the world cup is over , all you will hear now if 'potentially a Lions cap" or "looking to get on that plane to S.A"

  14. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinkers89 View Post
    The 6 P's come to mind with this tour.

    •••• poor planning
    •••• poor performance.

    How the hell Sinfield has anything to do with appointing people is beyond me.


    This was a real chance for RL to promote the game in Wales and Scotland on terrestrial TV at reasonable kick off times.
    If I wasnt willing to get up at some of the stupid times to watch , as an RL fan, why would those who dont know of RL watch it?

    Ultimately it fell on its arse.

    What it needs is a solid 4 year process of advertising, promotion which should start by January 2020.

    Matches not to be played as part of a "triple header" they are to be matches on there own. GB vs Aus or NZ. Kick off at 8pm in Aus is a 9am KO here.

    As some one eluded to earlier in the thread, RU Lions have been advertising the '21 tour to S.A about 24 hours after the final whistle of the N.Z tour. Now the world cup is over , all you will hear now if 'potentially a Lions cap" or "looking to get on that plane to S.A"
    Fully agree. Great post again

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    Learning All The Songs barry's Avatar
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    I don't agree with getting rid of GB. I'd still go back to the old days of touring sides playing GB and World Cup games being England. Or maybe if the four nations comes back play as GB down under and England up here if they are still having European qualifiers. Wales aren't going to play a tri/4 nations in Australia.

    Didn't we only change the name for Sport England funding anyway??

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by barry View Post
    I don't agree with getting rid of GB. I'd still go back to the old days of touring sides playing GB and World Cup games being England. Or maybe if the four nations comes back play as GB down under and England up here if they are still having European qualifiers. Wales aren't going to play a tri/4 nations in Australia.

    Didn't we only change the name for Sport England funding anyway??

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    The GB name is not a problem. The coach and those who appointed him are the problem. If he worked in GB things might be different.

    It is interesting that there is a tall tale to the effect that Eddie Jones has an eye on his job at Souths.

  17. #517
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if he got a new contract
    Not when you have got Rimmer saying "There won't be any knee jerk reaction to this tour" and Sinfield saying "that they will look at his tenure as a whole including the earlier wins over NZ". Sounds a bit ominous.

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    Pretty much infuriated with Woods opinions about GB, and it's annoying that we get so little publicity as a sport that no-marks like him can have a big voice in the debate after a tour, which of course he got paid to travel to NZ to commentate on.

    All of his questions were looking for the wrong answer. The crowds in NZ for international RL are generally a bit crap, yet this time it was the fault of the Lions. Nobody down there apparently knows the difference between GB and England, but he then basically says lack of interest would have been higher had it been England, which makes no sense. And he used the stupid argument that GB doesn't matter if it's basically all England players. Would we be calling for Team GB to become Team England at the Olympics if 95% of our elite athletes were English? Would we call the European Ryder Cup team England if 95% of the golfers in a team one year were English?

    With Wales and Scotland not good enough to go on big time tours or play important tests on their own, we either have England or GB taking part in big Autumn tests outside of World Cup years. Which 'brand' potentially brings in more new fans across all 4 countries in the UK? Which 'brand' has more history, etc? Since we got rid of GB I've shown a minimal interest in international RL most years outside of World Cups. This year I was interested. The wonderful red, white and blue top with the lion on the chest was back. The brand and concept that I grew up with was back. And it was ruined from the word go by the incompetent idiots that run our game. The coach was allowed to treat a Lions tour like a Premier League coach treats a pre-season tour of the USA, and the RFL have just sat back and not blinked. The 'punishment' for this will be a new contract and the right to coach this nation in what should be a pivotal 12 months that could finally give the sport the attention and limelight it needs via an Ashes Series and a home World Cup.

    How far below our potential as a national side, as a game and as a 'product' will we find ourselves in 2 years with this fella as coach and these Z-List business minds in charge of the game. So many times our game gets screwed by external forces, but when we have a chance to show the world what RL is all about we blow it for ourselves so many times as well. This tour was a disaster, and we can't blame anyone else but the people that run the game here and the man who coaches the team. If we're sat here in 2 years decrying the lost opportunities wasted after an Ashes series and a World Cup will be be that surprised?

  19. #519
    In The West Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Pretty much infuriated with Woods opinions about GB, and it's annoying that we get so little publicity as a sport that no-marks like him can have a big voice in the debate after a tour, which of course he got paid to travel to NZ to commentate on.

    All of his questions were looking for the wrong answer. The crowds in NZ for international RL are generally a bit crap, yet this time it was the fault of the Lions. Nobody down there apparently knows the difference between GB and England, but he then basically says lack of interest would have been higher had it been England, which makes no sense. And he used the stupid argument that GB doesn't matter if it's basically all England players. Would we be calling for Team GB to become Team England at the Olympics if 95% of our elite athletes were English? Would we call the European Ryder Cup team England if 95% of the golfers in a team one year were English?

    With Wales and Scotland not good enough to go on big time tours or play important tests on their own, we either have England or GB taking part in big Autumn tests outside of World Cup years. Which 'brand' potentially brings in more new fans across all 4 countries in the UK? Which 'brand' has more history, etc? Since we got rid of GB I've shown a minimal interest in international RL most years outside of World Cups. This year I was interested. The wonderful red, white and blue top with the lion on the chest was back. The brand and concept that I grew up with was back. And it was ruined from the word go by the incompetent idiots that run our game. The coach was allowed to treat a Lions tour like a Premier League coach treats a pre-season tour of the USA, and the RFL have just sat back and not blinked. The 'punishment' for this will be a new contract and the right to coach this nation in what should be a pivotal 12 months that could finally give the sport the attention and limelight it needs via an Ashes Series and a home World Cup.

    How far below our potential as a national side, as a game and as a 'product' will we find ourselves in 2 years with this fella as coach and these Z-List business minds in charge of the game. So many times our game gets screwed by external forces, but when we have a chance to show the world what RL is all about we blow it for ourselves so many times as well. This tour was a disaster, and we can't blame anyone else but the people that run the game here and the man who coaches the team. If we're sat here in 2 years decrying the lost opportunities wasted after an Ashes series and a World Cup will be be that surprised?
    Brilliant post as usual Gray.

  20. #520
    In The West Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Ged View Post
    If the RFL keep Bennett in his job they are just saying to Rugby League supporters in this country we don't care about you.
    And then you've got Woods blaming the performance on the basis that we played as 'Great Britain.' He's right about the insipid performances but he's talking nonsense about the GB stuff.

    We've got a clueless governing body & largely clueless journalists as well.

    If it wasn't for my love of Saints, the emotional addictions of being a supporter & the great times & friends I've made through the sport, as well as having a lot of respect for those who play the game, I'd have walked away long ago.

    A complete overhaul is needed to sort our national side out

  21. #521
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    Rumours in some media that Bennett will be kept on as GB coach for the WC.. to keep continuity..
    Humans are more concerned with having than being.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    Rumours in some media that Bennett will be kept on as GB coach for the WC.. to keep continuity..
    Probably the plan from day one! I'm not holding my breath for a change in coach until after the WC.

  23. #523
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk paulscnthorpe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    Rumours in some media that Bennett will be kept on as GB coach for the WC.. to keep continuity..
    Joke shop, what's the point in continuity when it's the crap we've been served up..

    Just shows how out if touch are.. bigger picture, imagine the interviews he's going to give ahead of a home world cup

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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    Rumours in some media that Bennett will be kept on as GB coach for the WC.. to keep continuity..
    That should be the final nail for most people. Boycott all internationals and the world cup. Yes, it would deliver a huge blow to the game as a whole, but the idiots and old-Yaarksher-pals act that infests this game is subjecting our sport to a slow death-by-a-thousand-cuts.

    There is no broad vision, no even medium-term strategy, no sense that they understand fans. It's just a series of short-term gimmicks that are abandoned for the next 'big idea' when they don't deliver instant mass popularity of the sport.

    Barring a handful of club owners/chairmen, the management of this sport is not fit for purpose.

  25. #525
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    The fact that he doesn't live here makes it even worse IMO. I have no objection to foreign coaches taking over national sides but those people should actually live here for a good proportion of the year and become accustomed to the culture of the sport in that country.

    Eddie Jones doesn't just fly in the week before the Six Nations and then spend the rest of the year in Australia, but Bennett does exactly that. How can he do anything else whilst coaching in Sydney? Bennett has shown that he neither knows nor cares about the RL culture in this country, and he believes he can pick an England or GB side without watching a single game in person here in an entire RL season. When we play Wigan on Good Friday the England coach should be in the ground watching, much like he should be there for other big SL games, the Cup Final, Grand Final etc. He is at none of them. And the RFL have deemed that to be fine.

    Imagine the England football coach also managing a big club in Brazil or Argentina, never stepping foot in the country except for the games and picking the team based upon what the FA tell him or what he watches on TV. It would never happen.

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