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View Poll Results: Your Best 3

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  • McCrae

    20 17.86%
  • Hanley

    6 5.36%
  • Millward

    81 72.32%
  • Anderson

    79 70.54%
  • Potter

    1 0.89%
  • Simmons

    0 0%
  • Brown

    5 4.46%
  • Rush

    0 0%
  • Cunningham

    1 0.89%
  • Holbrook

    97 86.61%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: The Holbrook Legacy

  1. #26
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Buddy's Avatar
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    Is our job a career killer?

    I can't think of any of our former coaches who have gone on to success after leaving Saints?

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  2. #27
    Learning All The Songs RV12's Avatar
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    For me:

    1. Holbrook - He came in when we were a mess. He made a number of correct decisions regarding personnel. Smith, Swift, Lee etc all out and replaced with better players, mainly internally. A masterstroke moving Lomax back to 6 and a brave call to replace Wilkin as captain with Roby. The likes of Thompson and Knowles have developed hugely under him. He's healed the disconnect between fans and club, delivered 3 trophies in 3 years and got us playing a style of rugby that we haven't seen since 2005. Only downside is that in years to come, we may think that 1 major trophy in this period is a missed opportunity.

    2. Millward - Presided over a manic 5 and a half years. Without question the most entertaining rugby I've ever watched. He brought us Wide to West, a World Club Challenge win, a first major final win over Wigan (and a second) in an age, the last second wins against Warrington, the last second Grand Final win against Bradford and, one of my favourite ever performances, when we annihilated Wigan in the 2000 play offs. Almost all of my favourite memories watching Saints were under Millward. There were lows and controversies, but in some ways that made the Millward era! Only reason he isn't number 1 is because he had a once in a lifetime squad of immense talent, which Holbrook did not and came into an already champion side, rather than a mid-table one.

    3. Brown - A controversial choice I know! But we were in a state when he came in. In 2012, we had a disastrous start and with KC in charge we started to double-down on our boring style. 2013 wasn't good I accept either, but we were hit with a huge injury crisis. But Brown did phase Wellens out (which was needed) and made some smart recruitment decisions such as signing Walsh for 2014. In that year, Brown was hugely impressive. He identified our weaknesses, being soft against sides like Wigan and corrected that. This was a huge factor in our 2014 title. He also found a way to win despite another injury crisis, when nobody thought it possible. The negative has to be the style of play, which was tough to watch, but he did achieve his brief.

    I appreciate it's controversial to leave Anderson out of the three. The reason I did was because he started the negative style that dragged us down for the next decade. I also don't think one Super League title out of four was a fantastic return considering the squad we had. Make no mistake, he was a brilliant coach, to guide us to four league leaders' shields and three Challenge Cups speaks for itself. The disciplined regime he installed was much needed at the time too. But when you consider the squad he had, especially compared to Brown, he is just edged out for me.

  3. #28
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    I have been watching since 1964 and cannot think of a coach who has been so inclusive and healed the club from top to bottom as well as producing top class rugby. Holbrook shades it for me as best coach for me over Millward/Anderson.

    Anderson/Millward were great but look what they had to work with.
    Learned comment from The Don

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    Is our job a career killer?

    I can't think of any of our former coaches who have gone on to success after leaving Saints?

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    I thought Millward did a great job at Wigan

  5. #30
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    Millward . The most pleasing era for me
    Holbrook. Turning the club around and bringing success
    Anderson. Stability , success and professionalism

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    1. Justin

    2. Anderson

    3. Millward

    In the summer era. But Jim Challinor was a good coach, innovative and we played good stuff in the winter era. Bear in mind Jim also coached the GB 72 World Cup Winners. When the GB team on tour in NZ ran out of players Jim then he was about 40 stepped in and played, suffering a knock that led to a kidney removal. Jim sadly passed away in his early forties.
    Last edited by Cyprus; 16th October 2019 at 12:37.

  7. #32
    Starting A Programme Collection Roger Moore's Avatar
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    McCrae - For me he was the start of the Saints resurgence.
    Milward - A true winner, even with the squad he had, still brought about huge success
    Holbrook - Restored the pride in wearing the shirt and brought us back from a dire period in time.
    Loyal and true, not a glory hunter.

  8. #33
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    3. Millward, a maverick who instilled an attacking verve. He had a great squad to utilise.
    2. McCrae, seemed a genuine good bloke and laid the foundations for what was to come.
    1. Holbrook, redemption! Saved the club and what it stands for. Style, panache, honesty. Promoted skill and attractive rugby before winning (unlike Wire and the Crust Munchers) and as such we had to wait for a GF win. Worth every minute! Week after week of attractive rugby, breaking records as we went and finally winning the GF that was actually a rugby match, not an "arm wrestle" or slow-down-athon at the PTB or a fist fight when one team started losing. A history maker.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Private Pyle View Post
    I thought Millward did a great job at Wigan
    Dead right he did!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    Sorry I think Anderson was extremely fortunate to be our coach at that time. When you look back at the squad he had and possibly the best leadership group in the history of our club how much did he have to do?

    When Holbrook came in the club was a mess. It was very quickly losing the fans due to KC's criticism and the squad (that with very few exceptions has just created history) was lacking cohesion & spirit.

    Holbrook not only fixed the team & the club, he fixed the divide between the club, fans and the town.

    I've been watching since the late 70's and for me Justin just pips Millward as the best coach we've had.

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    Agree with pretty much this. The Millward era was the most exciting time though!

  11. #36
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    Some interesting opinions on here on the pecking order of Holbrook, Anderson + Millward, all three have their merits and some younger fans might not have experienced the earlier years of McCrae, Hanley and Millward.

    I wonder how Kristian Woolf will fit into the grand scheme of things would he be in a similar scenario to Anderson when he took over from Millward, the current team is in a very good balanced shape and finally achieving a winning mentality, would he enhance what we already have and make us tougher in the bigger games. Could he extend Holbrooks Legacy and push us into a possible shorter term dynasty.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by zerohero1266 View Post
    Anderson for me because he gave us the 2006 team which swept the board.
    Anderson will always have that on his CV. The league, the Cup, the WCC, BBC Team of the Year, etc, etc.

    But that wasn't really his team, it was Millward's with a couple of introductions. The nucleus of that team was there when Anderson arrived. Wellens, Lyon, Talau, Long, KC, Anderson, Gilmour, Wilkin and Sculthorpe were all in place when Millward went, with youngsters like Roby and Graham knocking on the door.

    Anderson brought in Meli, Pryce and Cayless but the 2005 team was IMO a better team than the 2006 one but obviously suffered those injuries at the back end and had really good Leeds and Bradford teams just beneath them all year. The 2006 team was more ruthless but IMO the league was weaker that year. Our inability to take advantage of that with more titles after 2006 will be looked back on as a huge wasted opportunity. We really should be pushing 10 Super League titles right now given the team we had from 2005-2008-ish.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Moore View Post
    McCrae - For me he was the start of the Saints resurgence.
    Milward - A true winner, even with the squad he had, still brought about huge success
    Holbrook - Restored the pride in wearing the shirt and brought us back from a dire period in time.
    I think SMC had Eric Hughes to thank for the work he did with both the Academy & signings.

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    Last edited by Buddy; 16th October 2019 at 23:47.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Anderson will always have that on his CV. The league, the Cup, the WCC, BBC Team of the Year, etc, etc.

    But that wasn't really his team, it was Millward's with a couple of introductions. The nucleus of that team was there when Anderson arrived. Wellens, Lyon, Talau, Long, KC, Anderson, Gilmour, Wilkin and Sculthorpe were all in place when Millward went, with youngsters like Roby and Graham knocking on the door.

    Anderson brought in Meli, Pryce and Cayless but the 2005 team was IMO a better team than the 2006 one but obviously suffered those injuries at the back end and had really good Leeds and Bradford teams just beneath them all year. The 2006 team was more ruthless but IMO the league was weaker that year. Our inability to take advantage of that with more titles after 2006 will be looked back on as a huge wasted opportunity. We really should be pushing 10 Super League titles right now given the team we had from 2005-2008-ish.
    Fully agree. I said earlier that I thought Anderson inherited a great team. Probably a better one than ever inherited by any other SL coach.

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    I think all successful coaches can have the charge levelled at them that they inherited a quality team. I'm surprised by the antipathy towards Anderson and the playing down of his achievements by some.

    I loved the Millward era, and it will always be my favourite (until Woolf's reign eclipses it ) but I have huge admiration for what Anderson did here. Anderson brought composure and swagger. During his time at the club, he had to integrate a new HB partnership (Pryce joined when Anderson did) and the loss of Sculthorpe for big chunks of each of the 3 seasons (in 07 and 08, he made just 12 and 14 appearances, increasingly off the bench) yet still finished league leaders every year. Yes, we lost 2/3 GFs, and the first can be put down to underestimating Leeds, but the second seemed like any previous GF good fortune we'd had had been rolled into one, reversed, and thrown back at us (a curse that continued for the next 3 GFs!!)

    Each of Millward, Anderson, Holbrook and even McRae are coaching legends in my eyes, and for different reasons.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    I think all successful coaches can have the charge levelled at them that they inherited a quality team. I'm surprised by the antipathy towards Anderson and the playing down of his achievements by some.

    I loved the Millward era, and it will always be my favourite (until Woolf's reign eclipses it ) but I have huge admiration for what Anderson did here. Anderson brought composure and swagger. During his time at the club, he had to integrate a new HB partnership (Pryce joined when Anderson did) and the loss of Sculthorpe for big chunks of each of the 3 seasons (in 07 and 08, he made just 12 and 14 appearances, increasingly off the bench) yet still finished league leaders every year. Yes, we lost 2/3 GFs, and the first can be put down to underestimating Leeds, but the second seemed like any previous GF good fortune we'd had had been rolled into one, reversed, and thrown back at us (a curse that continued for the next 3 GFs!!)

    Each of Millward, Anderson, Holbrook and even McRae are coaching legends in my eyes, and for different reasons.
    Well said, although I only voted Anderson into 3rd place for me he was the most professional with attention to detail and I can say that at first hand. For a decade I was right below the directors/coaches seats and next to the subs bench area and could hear quite a lot of instructions from coaches Millward-Anderson-Potter. Most of the time Millward was in his seat orchestrating everything from there, Anderson when substituting a player would come down to subs area and spend a couple of minutes going through the playing detail. For Potter I wasn't impressed at all he would come down to the subs area wall and start texting messages on his phone and didn't watch the game for a couple of minutes.

    My no 1 choice in Millward was a coach to the players made in heaven and came up with those exciting plays, I met him a couple of times in seminars and he came across as being too big headed in his latter season which proved his downfall. You could say Holbrook is between Millward for the exciting play and Anderson for his honesty and discipline, what amused me when Holbrook is on the screen is that he shows his emotions like a saints supporter and not pan faced like other super league head coaches.

  17. #42
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    I've gone with JH, Millward and McRae over Anderson who inherited Millward's brilliant team. McRae benefited from the great preparatory work done by Eric Hughes and David Howes but the 1996 season was just so brilliant that he had to be there. The close wins at London, Warrington and Castleford all showed the character of the team. Millward was just barking mad but got the team going. As for JH, I was lucky enough to speak to him after the last home game and as we shook hands, I just said "Thank you for giving us our club back".

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    I think all successful coaches can have the charge levelled at them that they inherited a quality team. I'm surprised by the antipathy towards Anderson and the playing down of his achievements by some.

    I loved the Millward era, and it will always be my favourite (until Woolf's reign eclipses it ) but I have huge admiration for what Anderson did here. Anderson brought composure and swagger. During his time at the club, he had to integrate a new HB partnership (Pryce joined when Anderson did) and the loss of Sculthorpe for big chunks of each of the 3 seasons (in 07 and 08, he made just 12 and 14 appearances, increasingly off the bench) yet still finished league leaders every year. Yes, we lost 2/3 GFs, and the first can be put down to underestimating Leeds, but the second seemed like any previous GF good fortune we'd had had been rolled into one, reversed, and thrown back at us (a curse that continued for the next 3 GFs!!)

    Each of Millward, Anderson, Holbrook and even McRae are coaching legends in my eyes, and for different reasons.
    Yeah I don’t understand it either, same goes with players when fans say “well he played in a good team” etc. There’s a reason brilliant players usually play in brilliant teams. Think it was Paul Wellens who said something like Anderson inherited some amazing players but made them into an amazing team that won the lot. When you listen to players who played under him, he did an awful lot of brilliant work behind the scenes.
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    I think all successful coaches can have the charge levelled at them that they inherited a quality team. I'm surprised by the antipathy towards Anderson and the playing down of his achievements by some.

    I loved the Millward era, and it will always be my favourite (until Woolf's reign eclipses it ) but I have huge admiration for what Anderson did here. Anderson brought composure and swagger. During his time at the club, he had to integrate a new HB partnership (Pryce joined when Anderson did) and the loss of Sculthorpe for big chunks of each of the 3 seasons (in 07 and 08, he made just 12 and 14 appearances, increasingly off the bench) yet still finished league leaders every year. Yes, we lost 2/3 GFs, and the first can be put down to underestimating Leeds, but the second seemed like any previous GF good fortune we'd had had been rolled into one, reversed, and thrown back at us (a curse that continued for the next 3 GFs!!)

    Each of Millward, Anderson, Holbrook and even McRae are coaching legends in my eyes, and for different reasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tez the Saint View Post
    Yeah I don’t understand it either, same goes with players when fans say “well he played in a good team” etc. There’s a reason brilliant players usually play in brilliant teams. Think it was Paul Wellens who said something like Anderson inherited some amazing players but made them into an amazing team that won the lot. When you listen to players who played under him, he did an awful lot of brilliant work behind the scenes.
    I think you might be missing the point. When I wrote about Anderson it wasn't critisism, he of course did a fantastic job and brought us our best season since '66.

    But we're comparing the best coaches in our modern history and he without doubt took over the club at a peak time compared to some of the others so for me isn't our best.

    That doesn't make him a bad coach for us though

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    Last edited by Buddy; 18th October 2019 at 00:43.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    I think you might be missing the point. When I wrote about Anderson it wasn't critisism, he of course did a fantastic job and brought us our best season since '66.

    But we're comparing the best coaches in our modern history and he without doubt took over the club at a peak time compared to some of the others so for me isn't our best.

    That doesn't make him a bad coach for us though

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    I pretty much agree. I had JH, Millward, and Anderson third. I was basing my opinion on the type of rugby played and what the coaches brought to the club. IMO Millward’s rugby was the most exciting, but JH played exciting rugby and returned the club culture. Anderson was successful, but in his later years particularly, the success seemed to come from a more defensive game. At the end of the day these are individual opinions and won’t all be the same.

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    I,m suprised no one has mentioned Hanley and the way the fans demonstrated against the sacking, maybe it was because it was a long time ago for some fans.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I,m suprised no one has mentioned Hanley and the way the fans demonstrated against the sacking, maybe it was because it was a long time ago for some fans.
    I think the way he left the club and the success of Millward after rules him out of any serious contention. He did well to win a backs to wall GF against Bradford in 1999, but it was pretty up and down watching Saints under Hanley.

    I think the voting confirms it's a fairly young fan base voting. No real votes for McRae for example, whilst Holbrook is leading. Not suggesting McRae is a better coach but he certainly turned us from bridesmaids to winners in a time when Wigan were a great side.
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  23. #48
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    If I was ranking all of them on that list (a combination of success, playing style, relationship with the fans, and personal opinion) I'd go:

    1. Millward
    2. Holbrook
    3. Anderson
    4. McRae
    5. Hanley
    6. Brown
    7. Simmons
    8. Potter
    9. Rush
    10. Cunningham

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    If I was ranking all of them on that list (a combination of success, playing style, relationship with the fans, and personal opinion) I'd go:

    1. Millward
    2. Holbrook
    3. Anderson
    4. McRae
    5. Hanley
    6. Brown
    7. Simmons
    8. Potter
    9. Rush
    10. Cunningham
    You've got Cunningham quite high there. I'd put Jeanette Smith higher than him

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    You've got Cunningham quite high there. I'd put Jeanette Smith higher than him


    Another point - I know they were only there a few weeks, but for what they did in laying the platform for getting the players reacquainted with playing a more expansive type of rugby in advance of Holbrook coming in, I'd put the '3 wise men' in 7th. By doing the work they did - and at times during their caretaker stint the players looked clueless at passing, but more comfortable by the end - it meant Holbrook wasn't coming in and having to start from scratch. That Holbrook started with mainly positive results (especially that first match when he was in the stand at MW) helped get the fans onside straight away, which always helps.

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