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View Poll Results: Your Best 3

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  • McCrae

    20 17.86%
  • Hanley

    6 5.36%
  • Millward

    81 72.32%
  • Anderson

    79 70.54%
  • Potter

    1 0.89%
  • Simmons

    0 0%
  • Brown

    5 4.46%
  • Rush

    0 0%
  • Cunningham

    1 0.89%
  • Holbrook

    97 86.61%
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Thread: The Holbrook Legacy

  1. #1
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk STIDDY's Avatar
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    Default The Holbrook Legacy

    Sometimes its not the be all and end all if a coach fails to deliver silverware there are other factors in the mix. Who in your opinion is in the best 3 of the 10 and why, based on your own factors that come into play.

    Once the top 3 are well established, then we ask the question what order of the top 3 based on your opinion factors.
    Last edited by STIDDY; 15th October 2019 at 09:58.

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    I'm too young to be able to give a fair reflection of Mcrae & Hanley, but for me Holbrook is easily my number 1.

    Put simply, he made me fall back in love with Saints. He joined a club in turmoil, and had been on a downward spiral for some time despite the 2014 win; there was a clear divide between players and fans, the rugby was awful and I dread to think what position we'd be in now had he not joined. I now spend the week looking forward to the game at the weekend, which is a stark contrast to how I felt for the majority of the previous 5-10 years. On the field is just a small element, I think the engagement with the town from the team and club as a whole is better than I can ever remember it. Having met Justin on 3/4 occasions, he is a real gent and clearly made a real effort to become embedded in the town from day 1. Saturday was the icing on the cake, and was just reward for what he has done. Thank you Justin, you are welcome back anytime

    Anderson and Milward are 2 and 3, helped massively by a great era of players. Under both we played quality, entertaining rugby. One of my great memories of being a teenager is standing on the Popular side, sun shining watching the likes of Wellens, Lyon, Long, Scully, Cunningham etc making the game look so easy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Sometimes its not the be all and end all if a coach fails to deliver silverware there are other factors in the mix. Who in your opinion is in the best 3 of the 10 and why, based on your own factors that come into play.

    Once the top 3 are well established, then we ask the question what order of the top 3 based on your opinion factors.
    Voted for Holbrook as opposed to Anderson, same reason as other pollsters, he recovered the love of the club for the supporters that Cunningham had lost because of his naivety in relationship with the fans., also he has improved and got the best out of one or two of the team who with the greatest of respect aren't he superstars of the Anderson era. Just a shame he didn't stay because I'm sure that he would have gone on to guide us to greater success. Mind you under McRea and Millward we were certainly the entertainers
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    In The South Stand Tabasco's Avatar
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    Holbrook for me given the transformation of all aspects of the club achieved during his tenure. I believe the club was at its lowest ebb since I moved to the town in the early 70s but this was quickly changed without wholesale additions to the playing squad. Although we had the significant addition of Barba, for me the major impact of Holbrook’s arrival was his identification of the dead wood and initial release of the likes of Jack Owens, Greg Richards and Tommy Lee. Allied to this was his willingness to trust young players to come in to the side whenever needed rather than play senior players out of position.

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    The standouts are the three miles ahead in the vote but a shout out to McRae who played a big part in kick starting a long period of success. His fitness background helped to take some real talented players and pushed them to higher fitness levels which took us to another level.
    Last edited by ffs; 15th October 2019 at 12:00. Reason: Eye carnt spel

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    It's easy to underestimate McRae's impact when he arrived. Hughes had put together a squad capable of challenging for honours, but McRae made everything click into place. For me, though, his memory is tainted by the way we dropped off so spectacularly after winning the cup in '97. From all accounts he'd completely lost control of the players by then, and the results were there to see on the pitch. It took a disciplinarian like Hanley, who also shouldn't be forgotten, to pull them back into line.

    But if you're looking for the three best then it has to be Millward (unconventional, sometimes infuriating, but had us play some of the most amazing rugby I've ever seen), Anderson (ruthless professionalism personified) and Holbrook, whose transformation of the club, especially now that he has a title to his name, puts him right up there with best of them.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Wee Waa Womble's Avatar
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    In my lifetime you’ve got Millward and Anderson who won plenty playing fantastic rugby but neither of them took over a team and club in such disarray and built them into such a force. It’s a shame Holbrook won’t be around to establish his own dynasty but hopefully the work he’s done has put the building blocks in place for Woolf and coaches after him.
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    For me, Ian Millward. Was the rugby of my growing up years at Knowsley Road and some of the players we had were unbelievable. My most enjoyable time as a saints fan slightly ahead of Daniel Anderson and his short & highly successful tenure.

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    I think I'm one of the few that liked Nathan Brown at Saints. The fact that he took no sh!t and stopped us being physically bullied by Wigan was a big tick in the box

    Saying that there's still three better choices!

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    I find it almost impossible to decide who is the best coach because there are so many different circumstances surrounding any particular era, quality of players available being just one. I think if I can recall correctly that Paul Sculthorpe once quoted in his biography that "Rugby League is a simple game made complicated by coaches" possibly when Millward was head coach which in my opinion was one of the most memorable era's for me personally, but was it down to coaching? As someone said earlier Eric Hughes started to build a side but couldn't quite polish off the job and McRea took all the plaudits, a similar situation with Tony Smith, who takes struggling sides and makes them competitive, Darrell Powell the same. I also think the so called mighty Wigan of the eighties was built by Graeme Lowe and polished off by John Monie. What worries me more is when a coach has so much respect from the players, a la Justin Holbrook and Daniel Anderson that it becomes a difficult act to follow. I remember Sean Long at the end of a particularly frustrating game where we were playing woefully under Mick Potter in the first half and all of a sudden the tactics changed so completely in the second half that it looked like a new team had come out, the Sky on-field reporter at the time interviewed Sean and asked him what tactical changes the coach had made at half time to completely turn the game around and he basically said it had nothing to do with Potter (I remember that so vividly because I thought it was quite disrespectful at the time just using his surname), I think he was in a round about way saying they could play better without him and to some extent they probably could have. i think Christian Woolfe really has his work cut out and I only hope hes up to the job to take us further and make something really special.

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    Got to be Holbrook for me. I am thinking really hard here, absolutely racking my brain but I can not find one criticism of the man. Fabulous coach. True Gentleman. Great ambassador for the Club, and the Sport. I have never seen such a united and focused saints team as we have seen since the Challenge Cup final. God we will miss him. Definitely big shoes to fill !!!

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    Holbrook is an obvious 1 for me, from where we where when he took over, 7th after playing the junk we played under Cunningham, to now is night and day, yes there has been some imports, Coote and Naiqama, but the team that won on Saturday was pretty much the same team Cunningham did so little with, to get that turn around so quickly if a massive achievement. Anderson and Millward were the other 2 i went for, Anderson coached what until this year was the best Saints side i had seen in 2006, and Millward for the success he brought playing a good brand of rugby. But you could easily have included McRae, who made us a force in the early super league era, and Hanley who may have been at saints as a coach long but had a win percentage of around 75%. Outside of those coaches the best was Brown who whilst we won in 2014 we played a poor brand of rugby, the other coaches listed were poor at best and in some cases a terrible fit.

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    Holbrook for me too. He had so much more work to do to turn the club around. He inherited a team that was shot, transformed it and got them believing in themselves. Made the tough calls re Swift, Morgan and Douglas, Richardson and even Amor. Made Roby believe he was captain material. The club and community relationship was at an all time low and he built those bridges. Got him and his players out in the community. Great touch him and McManus taking the trophy down to the Gerrard at the weekend. He unlike Cunningham, was willing to learn from his mistakes too. (i.e flogging the same team week in, week out).

    Mr Woolf has got everything in place to make a success of his time here and that's largely in part to Justin. This team has got legs in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsepho View Post
    Holbrook is an obvious 1 for me, from where we where when he took over, 7th after playing the junk we played under Cunningham, to now is night and day, yes there has been some imports, Coote and Naiqama, but the team that won on Saturday was pretty much the same team Cunningham did so little with, to get that turn around so quickly if a massive achievement. Anderson and Millward were the other 2 i went for, Anderson coached what until this year was the best Saints side i had seen in 2006, and Millward for the success he brought playing a good brand of rugby. But you could easily have included McRae, who made us a force in the early super league era, and Hanley who may have been at saints as a coach long but had a win percentage of around 75%. Outside of those coaches the best was Brown who whilst we won in 2014 we played a poor brand of rugby, the other coaches listed were poor at best and in some cases a terrible fit.
    Nah Millward was a winner. We'd have won the last four trophies under him. None of this losing to Warrington malarkey on his watch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    Nah Millward was a winner. We'd have won the last four trophies under him. None of this losing to Warrington malarkey on his watch.
    I know, i said he was 1 of the 3 i chose, i just pointed out others who you could have had as well, specifically McRae and Hanley, based on their records. I made more of a point that some on the list were terrible, the coaches we had between Anderson and Holbrook, Brown aside, were different levels of poor.

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    For me Millward, Holbrook and Anderson in that order.

    Millward was a brilliant technical tactician and turned great players into Legends and got the trophies when their was some decent quality of opposition players at the time. Holbrook went to America preseason and got the Club-Players-Fans connection from there, its his honesty and respect to all which was the biggest standout. Anderson inherited a great side and brought those young players through we became a lot tighter in defence and the 2006 was a legacy of that.

    I'm glad a few people have mentioned Eric Hughes he planted the seeds for McCrae and Hanley regimented it. Unfortunately Potter didn't progress our transition and our dynasty didn't show any signs of re occurring. With the rest we lost our mojo and identity but over the last 2 years we have got that back hopefully our new coach will not change our playing approach too much.

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    Millward then Anderson. Last spot is tough but i would just about go with Brown. 2011-2013 were some dark times and he had some rebuilding to do. We won the Grand Final with umpteen injuries and players playing out of position. He left us in pretty good shape before Cunningham came in and messed it all up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    In my lifetime you’ve got Millward and Anderson who won plenty playing fantastic rugby but neither of them took over a team and club in such disarray and built them into such a force. It’s a shame Holbrook won’t be around to establish his own dynasty but hopefully the work he’s done has put the building blocks in place for Woolf and coaches after him.
    That's pretty much my take, too.

    But Holbrook did inherit the basis of a very good team, and blacked-out (initially at least) with us signing Barba, who made us instantly an attacking force.

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    It's quite tough to judge who the top 3 are as there's alot of factors to consider.

    Obviously trophy success is important, but you've also got to take into considering where we were as a team when the coach took over, the players they had to work with, the style of play under that coach and the enjoyment factor we had as fans during the period of their coaching.

    In terms of trophy success Anderson and Millward will easily win. Millward was a winner and I would say it was the most enjoyable period watching Saints in my lifetime. Anderson was ruthless as a coach and he had us defending more aggressively than I can remember under any other coach. Our attack wasn't as fluent but defensively we were outstanding and we also had the 75-0 win under him. Both of those coaches had the golden generation of Saints stars though - Wellens, Long, Cunningham and Sculthorpe.

    Brown did an unbelieveable job given some of the players he had to work with. We were really poor when he took over and similar to when Holbrook took over, he had to get rid of some of the deadwood to rebuild the side. The negative to to Brown's time was the style of play - I never really enjoyed watching us under Brown.

    McRae turned us from nearly men to Champions and I believe without him, we wouldn't have won so many trophies after his time from 1999 until the mid 2000's. Winning trophies under McRae gave Saints and other sides the belief they could end Wigan's dynasty. We also played some attractive rugby under him for the 1st couple of seasons, it was just a shame his final season was poor.

    Holbrook has been great for us. Under Cunningham, I fell out of love with Saints and it was the lowest I had felt watching Saints during the Cunningham era. He not only transformed the team but he got alot of people to fall in love with the club again. We played great rugby and his win percentage is incredible really. The only downside to his tenure is the lack of major trophies. I think if he'd have won a couple more, he'd be top of the list but due to that he's not quite there.

    For me:

    1). Millward - I just loved watching us under Millward. We were the entertainers and won lots of trophies
    2). Anderson - Ruthless in defence and 2006 will go down as our best ever season. Along with Holbrook probably the most rounded and technical coach we've had
    3). Holbrook / McRae - Tough to choose for different reasons. Holbrook was a better coach and our brand of rugby arguably more exciting, but 1996 was the most exciting season I can recall and the change in mentality to snatch the title from Wigan shouldn't be underestimated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    For me Millward, Holbrook and Anderson in that order.

    Millward was a brilliant technical tactician and turned great players into Legends and got the trophies when their was some decent quality of opposition players at the time. Holbrook went to America preseason and got the Club-Players-Fans connection from there, its his honesty and respect to all which was the biggest standout. Anderson inherited a great side and brought those young players through we became a lot tighter in defence and the 2006 was a legacy of that.

    I'm glad a few people have mentioned Eric Hughes he planted the seeds for McCrae and Hanley regimented it. Unfortunately Potter didn't progress our transition and our dynasty didn't show any signs of re occurring. With the rest we lost our mojo and identity but over the last 2 years we have got that back hopefully our new coach will not change our playing approach too much.
    IMO Hughes did lay the foundation. Millward took us to another level of innovation, though he may have been a bit brash off the field. Anderson inherited probably the best Saints side I have seen, and I think a lot of his success was inherited. With Anderson I also didn't like how at time he singled out players for criticism. Holbrook did it on and off the field, he improved players, as well as the team as a whole, there was never any arrogance about him. For me Holbrook Millward then Anderson.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    Millward then Anderson. Last spot is tough but i would just about go with Brown. 2011-2013 were some dark times and he had some rebuilding to do. We won the Grand Final with umpteen injuries and players playing out of position. He left us in pretty good shape before Cunningham came in and messed it all up.
    Same three for me as well I think, Holbrook and Brown is close IMO for 3rd, different types of jobs I suppose. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a team suffer with injuries as much as we did in 2013 with Brown. I know that were weeks when we were struggling to field 17 players. He replaced the likes of Wellens, Gardner, Meli, Puletua etc who were coming to the end of their careers with Lomax (although he missed a lot of 2013/14/15) Makinson, Percival, Thompson etc and got them over the line in a Grand Final as well when again we had who knows how many players missing. There were some tough days but to get the league leaders and the GF in 2014 was some effort.
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    I said earlier in the season (on the Superleague Pod) that Holbrook was the best coach we had had but he needed to bring home the championship to secure his legacy. Job Done! He has transformed our club on and off the field. Almost without exception every player has improved and several are now world class. What a coach, what a leader!

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    Anderson for me because he gave us the 2006 team which swept the board.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Buddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zerohero1266 View Post
    Anderson for me because he gave us the 2006 team which swept the board.
    Sorry I think Anderson was extremely fortunate to be our coach at that time. When you look back at the squad he had and possibly the best leadership group in the history of our club how much did he have to do?

    When Holbrook came in the club was a mess. It was very quickly losing the fans due to KC's criticism and the squad (that with very few exceptions has just created history) was lacking cohesion & spirit.

    Holbrook not only fixed the team & the club, he fixed the divide between the club, fans and the town.

    I've been watching since the late 70's and for me Justin just pips Millward as the best coach we've had.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    Sorry I think Anderson was extremely fortunate to be our coach at that time. When you look back at the squad he had and possibly the best leadership group in the history of our club how much did he have to do?

    When Holbrook came in the club was a mess. It was very quickly losing the fans due to KC's criticism and the squad (that with very few exceptions has just created history) was lacking cohesion & spirit.

    Holbrook not only fixed the team & the club, he fixed the divide between the club, fans and the town.

    I've been watching since the late 70's and for me Justin just pips Millward as the best coach we've had.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    Good post Buddy.

    Hard for me to pick but I'd have to pick between Millward or Holbrook.

    Although I thought Brown did a really good job in tough circumstances. As well as Cunningham at the time as his assistant.

    Hanley gave us a great season in 1999.

    If forced, I would have to go with Millward with Holbrook a close 2nd.

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