Hattons Solicitors Banner
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 42 of 42

Thread: Are we coasting too much?

  1. #26
    Learning All The Songs RJM25R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Royton, Oldham
    Posts
    1,130
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    Must admit Wigan looked good against Castleford last night. Not spectacular rugby but a good tight performance.
    They've shipped out a 2 or 3 players and some of the young forwards are doing well.

    They're going to be tough to beat, we can beat them but we'll have to tighten up
    I watched the game and thought they just capitalized on Cas’s desperation.

    Not a brilliant performance by Wigan as you say, but workmanlike and successful.
    Posted by paulscnthorpe
    Thompson made more metres than Isa, clubb, Byrne, partington, o loughlin, Powell and flower combined

    Posted by SaintJon
    And he only played 50 minutes...

  2. #27
    Starting A Programme Collection Angry Dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    954
    Rep Power
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    I watched the game and thought they just capitalized on Cas’s desperation.

    Not a brilliant performance by Wigan as you say, but workmanlike and successful.
    I just found it hard to watch and went to bed before it finished.

  3. #28
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Stood at the back of Stand B in Knowsley Road
    Posts
    1,072
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    I just found it hard to watch and went to bed before it finished.
    I went to the pub but watched it today :-)


    It wasn't pretty but effective.

  4. #29
    Got A Season Ticket
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Nuneaton
    Posts
    102
    Rep Power
    14

    Default

    Which is all they needed to do.

    What worries me is the number of times this season we've heard it said that Saints didn't need to get out of 2nd gear. Have we forgotten how to tune it up when the need arises? Hope my worry is misplaced ...

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

  5. #30
    In The South Stand STIDDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Kingdom of Wigoon
    Posts
    3,692
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    All we can do is play to the max from now on and take a lot of energy out of the opposition so that team struggles physically in their next game.

  6. #31
    Noooobie
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    16
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Gone off the boil. Not the same team that was playing smart early in season.

  7. #32
    Learning All The Songs roy litherland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Moss Bank
    Posts
    1,704
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    I really think Wembley has brought the squad back down to earth , many on here said that a defeat would probably come , it did everybody hurting after especially the players. Well that one defeat has now passed and the lads look like they are over it. For me and it's very rare I make predictions but I really feel confident that we can lift that big trophy.
    roy litherland it's happened i told you it would

  8. #33
    In The South Stand Dux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Liverpool
    Posts
    3,797
    Rep Power
    20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by roy litherland View Post
    I really think Wembley has brought the squad back down to earth , many on here said that a defeat would probably come , it did everybody hurting after especially the players. Well that one defeat has now passed and the lads look like they are over it. For me and it's very rare I make predictions but I really feel confident that we can lift that big trophy.
    Im not so sure. Weve made a hatful of errors in each game since the cup final - more of the same would see us missing out once more.

  9. #34
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Yellow Giraffe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Ashton
    Age
    34
    Posts
    9,424
    Rep Power
    23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    I’m not so sure. We’ve made a hatful of errors in each game since the cup final - more of the same would see us missing out once more.
    Just had a quick look at this. In the 3 games after Wembley we are averaging 17 errors per game. In the 3 games prior to Wembley it was an average of 11.

    So there’s been a 50% increase in errors since we lost at Wembley. Coincidence? Nerves? Anxiety? Self-doubt? None of the above?
    NEVER WRITE OFF THE SAINTS

  10. #35
    Learning All The Songs KentishBarry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,625
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Just had a quick look at this. In the 3 games after Wembley we are averaging 17 errors per game. In the 3 games prior to Wembley it was an average of 11.

    So there’s been a 50% increase in errors since we lost at Wembley. Coincidence? Nerves? Anxiety? Self-doubt? None of the above?
    Maybe 6 games is too small a sample to be statistically accurate?

  11. #36
    In The West Stand paulscnthorpe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    St Helens
    Age
    35
    Posts
    7,477
    Rep Power
    24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Just had a quick look at this. In the 3 games after Wembley we are averaging 17 errors per game. In the 3 games prior to Wembley it was an average of 11.

    So theres been a 50% increase in errors since we lost at Wembley. Coincidence? Nerves? Anxiety? Self-doubt? None of the above?
    Naturally we're going to be a bit more switched off than earlier in the season when it mattered.. imagine going into work having met all of your targets for the year, Holbrook has had a tough job keeping the players relatively switched on.. luckily pride comes into it, clearly the players want to stay switched on ahead of the playoffs

    I know it's difficult to compare sport to other careers..

  12. #37
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Stood at the back of Stand B in Knowsley Road
    Posts
    1,072
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Just had a quick look at this. In the 3 games after Wembley we are averaging 17 errors per game. In the 3 games prior to Wembley it was an average of 11.

    So there’s been a 50% increase in errors since we lost at Wembley. Coincidence? Nerves? Anxiety? Self-doubt? None of the above?
    We try and play expansive rugby and push passes that sometimes aren't really on, unfortunately that's Saints for you ;-)

    If the passes stick, we'll blow the opposition away and win by 30+ points. If the passes and set moves don't come off we try too much and we lose by the odd try in a tight game.

    Obviously it doesn't have to be like that but I do feel sometimes we lack a plan 'B'. We play a similar way every week and it is effective but in big games opposition coaches seem to have us weighed up.

  13. #38
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Blobbynator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    7,646
    Rep Power
    23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    We try and play expansive rugby and push passes that sometimes aren't really on, unfortunately that's Saints for you ;-)

    If the passes stick, we'll blow the opposition away and win by 30+ points. If the passes and set moves don't come off we try too much and we lose by the odd try in a tight game.

    Obviously it doesn't have to be like that but I do feel sometimes we lack a plan 'B'. We play a similar way every week and it is effective but in big games opposition coaches seem to have us weighed up.
    I think that's probably been the drawback to Holbrook's tenure at Saints so far.

    His coaching record here is around 80% wins, so you can't fault his philosophy and we have been thoroughly entertained the 2 and a half years he's been here. I admire his ability to stick to his attacking philosophy and I certainly wouldn't to change the way we play (I prefer an attacking style to a defensive one 100%), but in the big games you need to be able to adapt your tactics and be flexible. Sometimes that means doing the basics by holding the ball, kicking well and playing the game in the opponents half.

    Hopefully we'll see a more refined team in the Play Offs that has learned lessons, but the CC Semi and Wembley has certainly dampened expectations slightly. I'm hoping the fact all our key players are now match fit, may improve us dramatically from the Wembley game but we shall see.
    Quote Originally Posted by Despondent Dave
    Blobby is a man of style, panache and impeccable taste

  14. #39
    In The South Stand Webbo Again's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Refugee from the fascist state of RLFans
    Posts
    3,408
    Rep Power
    14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post
    Naturally we're going to be a bit more switched off than earlier in the season when it mattered.. imagine going into work having met all of your targets for the year,

    There's a big bloody red cross against one of the targets....
    I f*cking hate wi*an.

  15. #40
    In The South Stand Webbo Again's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Refugee from the fascist state of RLFans
    Posts
    3,408
    Rep Power
    14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    I think that's probably been the drawback to Holbrook's tenure at Saints so far.

    His coaching record here is around 80% wins, so you can't fault his philosophy and we have been thoroughly entertained the 2 and a half years he's been here. I admire his ability to stick to his attacking philosophy and I certainly wouldn't to change the way we play (I prefer an attacking style to a defensive one 100%), but in the big games you need to be able to adapt your tactics and be flexible. Sometimes that means doing the basics by holding the ball, kicking well and playing the game in the opponents half.

    Hopefully we'll see a more refined team in the Play Offs that has learned lessons, but the CC Semi and Wembley has certainly dampened expectations slightly. I'm hoping the fact all our key players are now match fit, may improve us dramatically from the Wembley game but we shall see.


    In my view, it's the opposite, and what's cost us in big games has been too much of a changed approach.

    Whether this is a deliberate tactic or the players not coping with the pressure of the occasion I don't know. Against both Catalans and Wire last year, we seemed to play a game of primarily containing them initially. Against Catalans, they just blew hot and we froze. Against Wire, we didn't appear to put enough focus on attack, and we looked very one-dimensional.

    For both games, it was easy to find excuses.

    Against Catalans, we underestimated them. They'd been playing awful when the draw was made and although they'd improved, I don't think any of us expected them to put that level of performance in. Caught cold, we panicked. That, I guess, is where the 'throw it about and see' criticism comes from - but that in itself was a 'plan B', even if it was more ad hoc than an actual plan. And it was just throwing it about without structure, hoping for a gap to magically appear, or an individual player to come up with a moment of genius.

    By the time we played Wire, we were a diminished force from the team that had blown away nearly all-comers earlier in the season. The 'Barba effect' was obviously a big factor, but also players had for weeks seemed to be running on fumes, without the explosive dynamism that we'd seen.

    I had no doubts this year that we'd come good. After a couple of months, I'd taken it as read we'd clean-sweep all the trophies; not one team had come close to beating us when we had a first choice team out (a few close games, yes, but I never doubted we'd win in those). Wembley was a stinker. I'm still struggling with it.

    Now the alarm bells have begun to ring. After a good start to the game, once the try was wrongly ruled out and then we couldn't break them down, the mentality of the players seemed to go. We stopped running the plays that had brought us so much joy earlier in the season, stopped attacking as a team with dummy runners and angles and isolating their defenders. Our creative core of Coote, Lomax & Roby were anonymous in attack, along with our strike players like Percival & Naiqama. The problem wasn't that we gave the ball air; it was that we *only* gave the ball air, without doing all the things off the ball that makes giving the ball air its potency. The panic of not being able to tear holes in the Wire defence also increases fatigue - and mental switch-offs led to the key Wire tries, especially letting that short-legged pudding Philbin bundle over.

    I've got serious concerns over this team's mental strength and ability to play their normal, practised game - which does include expansive rugby - in high pressure big games.
    I f*cking hate wi*an.

  16. #41
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Blobbynator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    7,646
    Rep Power
    23

    Default

    I don't agree with everything you say there Webbo, but there's definitely elements I agree with such as our fragile mentality.

    I've not watched the Cup Final back and have no intention to do so, but the way I recall it we started the game really well. For 20-25 minutes we were on top, but we didn't take our chances (The Knowles no try was obviously a bad decision by the referee) and then we made a few key errors and found ourselves 12-0 down at half time, despite playing quite well for periods of the 1st half. It's like we felt an injustice at the scoreline and instead of sticking to what was working early in the game, we lost our heads and started to panic.

    For me, we then lacked the patience and composure and went away from what we do well by forcing stupid passes, playing as individuals and effectively try too hard to change the game too early (we made alot of errors as a result and let Wire off the hook when we tried to build some pressure). As the game wore on, we got worse and worse as we chased the game. If we'd have remained patient, played the game more directly and put pressure on Warrington's line, there's a good chance we'd have won the game, as Wire were struggling in the heat, especially at 12-4.

    I remember when we played Leeds earlier in the season (may have been the 1st game at home), we were losing convincingly at half time but 2nd half we adapted to the game, played more direct and Leeds just couldn't handle the relentless pressure. A much less pressurised game admittedly and there's no way we could come back from such a scoreline in a Play Off game you'd imagine, but adapting to that game changed the bearing of the 2nd half and the result. I don't think we have been in that situation since as we've practically been ahead in every single game all season, so we've not had to adapt our game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Despondent Dave
    Blobby is a man of style, panache and impeccable taste

  17. #42
    Learning All The Songs roy litherland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Moss Bank
    Posts
    1,704
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by roy litherland View Post
    I really think Wembley has brought the squad back down to earth , many on here said that a defeat would probably come , it did everybody hurting after especially the players. Well that one defeat has now passed and the lads look like they are over it. For me and it's very rare I make predictions but I really feel confident that we can lift that big trophy.
    After the game tonight = buy your seats and enjoy.
    roy litherland it's happened i told you it would

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •