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Thread: Are we coasting too much?

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Blobbynator's Avatar
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    Default Are we coasting too much?

    Just wondering what people's thoughts are on whether our incredible league campaign could ultimately be our hindrance in the Play Offs?

    The league has basically been won since June / July due to our consistency and everybody else's inconsistency. The worry I have with Saints is that the quality is clearly there, we've been comfortably superior to everybody else but we've been coasting along for weeks now with no pressure or must win games apart from Wembley (which we lost), whereas all our Play Off rivals are fighting for spots, finding their form at the right time and are basically in do or die games now.

    The good thing is the Play Off structure gives us 2 home games to get to the GF so if we are undercooked we get a 2nd chance to make the final, but I just wonder if we're battle hardened enough going into these big games?
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    Funny isn't it, we're probably all really nervous going into the playoffs yet no team has dominated the league like this since one had an unfair advantage.

    It wouldnt be a surprise if we had been coasting. Personally I believe the league has been very poor this year rather than Saints being magnificent, to have a team who could potentially be crowned champions after losing nearly half the games is unbelievable and yet even the runners up will have lost at least 11 games!

    Does this mean we are in a false position? Possibly, we deserve to be top of the league but the CCF proved we aren't a great team.

    We need a real strong performance next week, teams may already believe we are there to be beaten in big games and we have to start showing signs we're not


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    Wigan and Salford aside, I wouldn't say any other play off rivals have been finding their form at the right time. Hull have imploded and Wire lost six or seven league games on the spin before last week.

    I think a lot hinges on whether the players and Holbrook have learned the lessons from the final. Are we going to have the sense to switch things up and compress our defense when the likes of Wire take it up the middle all game for example? Can we get back the composure we've been missing these last few weeks? If we're knocking on 15 times a game still then it's going to be a struggle against teams with a conservative game plan and half backs who can control tight games.

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    Swings and roundabouts really.


    I believe the CC Final was a “perfect storm” of EVERYTHING going against us and EVERYTHING going for Warrington. As has been mentioned countless time, Ref decisions with a potential 18 point swing, unfit players coming back for Saints from layoffs, 3 or 4 Saints players having a stinker, huge amounts of errors, Coote missing that conversion, Warrington making very few handling errors and then 30 degree heat when you’re chasing the game.

    I believed we would win that game right up until Coote missed the conversion. If that had have gone over, it’s a one score game and I’m convinced we would have scored another quickly afterwards, as we have done many times this season however we looked defeated from that moment forward.


    But change an element or two of the “perfect storm” scenario and the result could have been a whole lot better for us. If they Knowles try had stood, who knows if we wouldn’t have run up a huge score?

    Anyway......

    The league table doesn’t lie, and no team will want to play us if they can avoid it because we’ve battered them all this season.

    We need to have the belief that we can bring it home, and be that “Extra man” because who knows when we’ll be in this position again?

    Sometimes you have to lose one to win one. COYS!
    Posted by paulscnthorpe
    Thompson made more metres than Isa, clubb, Byrne, partington, o loughlin, Powell and flower combined

    Posted by SaintJon
    And he only played 50 minutes...

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    I also thought the element of Saints having had too many easy games building up to Wembley may have had an affect on performance. However I was listening to Alan Hunte yesterday on GMR summarising on championship games and being asked if two weeks lay offs leading to a potential Grand Final would lead to Saints being undercooked. He basically refuted this completely and said that it was all on the night itself and the team doing as they have all season. I recall Hanley also a few weeks ago saying that Saints just need to hold their nerve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    Swings and roundabouts really.


    I believe the CC Final was a “perfect storm” of EVERYTHING going against us and EVERYTHING going for Warrington. As has been mentioned countless time, Ref decisions with a potential 18 point swing, unfit players coming back for Saints from layoffs, 3 or 4 Saints players having a stinker, huge amounts of errors, Coote missing that conversion, Warrington making very few handling errors and then 30 degree heat when you’re chasing the game.

    I believed we would win that game right up until Coote missed the conversion. If that had have gone over, it’s a one score game and I’m convinced we would have scored another quickly afterwards, as we have done many times this season however we looked defeated from that moment forward.


    But change an element or two of the “perfect storm” scenario and the result could have been a whole lot better for us. If they Knowles try had stood, who knows if we wouldn’t have run up a huge score?

    Anyway......

    The league table doesn’t lie, and no team will want to play us if they can avoid it because we’ve battered them all this season.

    We need to have the belief that we can bring it home, and be that “Extra man” because who knows when we’ll be in this position again?

    Sometimes you have to lose one to win one. COYS!
    It's hard to say you're spot on because it's all what if's but I agree with you. I was having a beer last night with a Hull fan and he couldn't complement us enough. We're a bloody good side that needs to take the cup final on the chin, it happened and it's gone, we have another chance to win something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    Swings and roundabouts really.


    I believe the CC Final was a “perfect storm” of EVERYTHING going against us and EVERYTHING going for Warrington. As has been mentioned countless time, Ref decisions with a potential 18 point swing, unfit players coming back for Saints from layoffs, 3 or 4 Saints players having a stinker, huge amounts of errors, Coote missing that conversion, Warrington making very few handling errors and then 30 degree heat when you’re chasing the game.

    I believed we would win that game right up until Coote missed the conversion. If that had have gone over, it’s a one score game and I’m convinced we would have scored another quickly afterwards, as we have done many times this season however we looked defeated from that moment forward.


    But change an element or two of the “perfect storm” scenario and the result could have been a whole lot better for us. If they Knowles try had stood, who knows if we wouldn’t have run up a huge score?

    Anyway......

    The league table doesn’t lie, and no team will want to play us if they can avoid it because we’ve battered them all this season.

    We need to have the belief that we can bring it home, and be that “Extra man” because who knows when we’ll be in this position again?

    Sometimes you have to lose one to win one. COYS!
    We make mistakes & play our worst when it truly counts.

    Do I see that changing in time? Nope.

    Also, although a different game now, the 1996 team was 26-12 down in near enough 40 degree heat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    We make mistakes & play our worst when it truly counts.

    Do I see that changing in time? Nope.

    Also, although a different game now, the 1996 team was 26-12 down in near enough 40 degree heat
    We can’t do a great deal apart from support the team through thick and thin hoping that we can produce a performance, should we reach the GF.

    The game was very different, as you say, 23 years ago but I stand with my analysis in that it was a combination of circumstances that cost the CC final.

    Could it happen again in the GF?

    Absolutely.

    But if we play at our best........
    Posted by paulscnthorpe
    Thompson made more metres than Isa, clubb, Byrne, partington, o loughlin, Powell and flower combined

    Posted by SaintJon
    And he only played 50 minutes...

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    The heat thing is balls - you could just as easily say it should have worked to our advantage as they tired.

    We lost that game in goal line defence and errors. The errors tired us out.

    And saying we were chasing the game in the heat so we made errors - we’ll that’s exactly the problem, we panic under pressure and are not composed enough in big games.


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    Losing the CC final has given us a big reality to get to that Grand Final, we couldn’t really do much about the rest of the other teams incapable of testing us. The only problem was the extended rotation of players period lost us momentum during the month of August.

    We need a tough game on Friday but SKY have changed the Wigan v Cas game to Thursday if Cas win that game then Hull will not be in the play offs and might not play 100%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    The heat thing is balls - you could just as easily say it should have worked to our advantage as they tired.

    We lost that game in goal line defence and errors. The errors tired us out.

    And saying we were chasing the game in the heat so we made errors - we’ll that’s exactly the problem, we panic under pressure and are not composed enough in big games.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Not balls at all, because I haven’t said that it was JUST because of the heat. I have always maintained that it was the combination of all the things I mentioned to create that situation.


    The ref, the errors, missed conversion, the unfit players, the resilience of Wire and their lack of errors plus the heat all combined......

    In your opinion, hypothetically of course, would we have won the game if Knowles try had stood, and/or Coote scores that conversion????


    Nobody knows for sure but I think so.
    Posted by paulscnthorpe
    Thompson made more metres than Isa, clubb, Byrne, partington, o loughlin, Powell and flower combined

    Posted by SaintJon
    And he only played 50 minutes...

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    The heat thing is balls - you could just as easily say it should have worked to our advantage as they tired.

    We lost that game in goal line defence and errors. The errors tired us out.

    And saying we were chasing the game in the heat so we made errors - we’ll that’s exactly the problem, we panic under pressure and are not composed enough in big games.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    We also lost because we didn’t try the fake HIA approach to give some forwards a rest without using our substitution allowance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    We can’t do a great deal apart from support the team through thick and thin hoping that we can produce a performance, should we reach the GF.

    The game was very different, as you say, 23 years ago but I stand with my analysis in that it was a combination of circumstances that cost the CC final.

    Could it happen again in the GF?

    Absolutely.

    But if we play at our best........
    Fair enough. I am quite negative on here but I'll be there Friday shouting them on.

    Wigan will beat Cas I reckon so hull still have a chance against us
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    We also lost because we didn’t try the fake HIA approach to give some forwards a rest without using our substitution allowance.
    Excellent point
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superblue View Post
    You think the Saints are the only ones that’s been coasting?

    Served you well in the Challenge Cup, when you didn’t play anyone till the final.
    Yes. The other teams aren't very good & they've been giving it their all.

    The way we play can be easily combated in the bigger games as they are refereed differently. Or incompetently, whichever way you want to see it
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    I think so. Other teams play the big games better than we do and I don’t think we play enough games with that pressure and intensity around them to improve. Huddersfield the other night was another example where we were poor IMO, made loads of errors but coasted to a 40 point win.

    We can afford to make those mistakes week to week because we’ve got some brilliant individual players, Roby, Lomax, Coote, Makinson, Thompson, Walmsley etc. We could make 25 errors every week and those players will still win games in SL most weeks. But we make those mistakes against good teams who are right on it, it becomes very difficult.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tez the Saint View Post
    I think so. Other teams play the big games better than we do and I don’t think we play enough games with that pressure and intensity around them to improve. Huddersfield the other night was another example where we were poor IMO, made loads of errors but coasted to a 40 point win.

    We can afford to make those mistakes week to week because we’ve got some brilliant individual players, Roby, Lomax, Coote, Makinson, Thompson, Walmsley etc. When we make those mistakes against good teams who are right on it, it becomes very difficult.

    I think the lack of intensity in some league games has been because we have been so good, we have made it look easy at times

    But I agree with your point that we don't play important games well, we don't have the composure for big games, I feel we need to win one to get the monkey off our backs and then we will be fine

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mancunian Saint View Post
    I think with Hull fc needing to beat us on Friday is a good thing as it means they will or should rip into us,, which will sharpen us up ahead of our first play off game
    Good point, and one of the reasons for the play off system is to keep games alive, this is one example of it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superblue View Post
    You think the Saints are the only ones that’s been coasting?

    Served you well in the Challenge Cup, when you didn’t play anyone till the final.
    You’ve been trying very hard all season and lost loads of games, we’ve creamed you every game except the one where you’d got the ref in your pocket.

    You probably won’t even make the GF at your current run rate.
    Posted by paulscnthorpe
    Thompson made more metres than Isa, clubb, Byrne, partington, o loughlin, Powell and flower combined

    Posted by SaintJon
    And he only played 50 minutes...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mancunian Saint View Post
    I think with Hull fc needing to beat us on Friday is a good thing as it means they will or should rip into us,, which will sharpen us up ahead of our first play off game

    I can’t see an issue for the play offs. Other teams hitting their straps are still not as good as us when we play.

    The final is it’s own problem but I’m confident we’ll get there at the first attempt and galvanize.

    The Hull game should be a good tune up, as you say!
    Posted by paulscnthorpe
    Thompson made more metres than Isa, clubb, Byrne, partington, o loughlin, Powell and flower combined

    Posted by SaintJon
    And he only played 50 minutes...

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    I can’t see an issue for the play offs. Other teams hitting their straps are still not as good as us when we play.

    The final is it’s own problem but I’m confident we’ll get there at the first attempt and galvanize.

    The Hull game should be a good tune up, as you say!
    True.

    Although I do worry about Losing the final, I'm a whole lot more worried about not getting there at all.

    If we get there, I'll relax a bit. We either win or we don't..

    I must admit though, I think Wigan will win it
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    True.

    Although I do worry about Losing the final, I'm a whole lot more worried about not getting there at all.

    If we get there, I'll relax a bit. We either win or we don't..

    I must admit though, I think Wigan will win it
    I think we will make it but also fear a Wigan win, they are building at the right time and have good. Uncle memory for winning finals

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superblue View Post
    Not an issue for me, as we have reamed you out in the last four big games
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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    I think we will make it but also fear a Wigan win, they are building at the right time and have good. Uncle memory for winning finals
    Must admit Wigan looked good against Castleford last night. Not spectacular rugby but a good tight performance.
    They've shipped out a 2 or 3 players and some of the young forwards are doing well.

    They're going to be tough to beat, we can beat them but we'll have to tighten up

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superblue View Post
    Not an issue for me, as we have reamed you out in the last four big games between us.
    I think you make a fair point that the Challenge Cup holders might not be in the best place to make OT again this season.
    We are already winners

    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
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    Posted by paulscnthorpe
    Thompson made more metres than Isa, clubb, Byrne, partington, o loughlin, Powell and flower combined

    Posted by SaintJon
    And he only played 50 minutes...

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