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Thread: Standard of referees

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    In The South Stand STIDDY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    Yes, I think it’s a bit of a myth that refs stand 11-12 metres back. They may do now and again through error but not as a rule
    Its mostly Hicks, Thaler and Child who go back 11-12 metres but thats only if they are in the right place and have enough time. We are probably the best for line speed and that why opposition fans say we are off side at every play the ball. Its all the messing about between tackle complete and playing the ball which is a total mess.

    Last night Amor was pinged for moving off the mark but in reality he wasn't allowed to play the ball at all. For me when the refs are organising the "10 metres" they miss too much whats going on with interference and sometimes just see a dropped ball, we need 2 refs otherwise this will continue on and on.

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    In The South Stand Sean Day's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    I don't think we have a decent referee. The guy refereeing last night was hopeless, he missed so many indiscretions. It was very frustrating to watch and I'm concerned teams will get away with murder in the Play Offs, especially when they try to contain our ruck speed.
    He saw most of the foul play well for both teams but there were some bewildering knock on decisions, particularly towards the end of the first half. The one where their lad smashed it clean out of Thompson’s grip and when Lomax ? passed it inside near their line and a knock on was given against us on both occasions

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    I assumed that last night’s referee was assigned to our game to make us realise that Hicks and Thaler aren’t that bad. As far as the defensive line being offside, I did think that whenever play was directly in front of where I sit the referee retreated about 12 metres from the play-the-ball.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    I assumed that last night’s referee was assigned to our game to make us realise that Hicks and Thaler aren’t that bad. As far as the defensive line being offside, I did think that whenever play was directly in front of where I sit the referee retreated about 12 metres from the play-the-ball.
    Is it just me who thinks that the in goal judges in non televised matches are a waste of money, surely the money being spent on their expenses would be better served by training up more referees to have the Australian system of two referees, one policing the ruck and the other to have more control over the game in general, the play the ball seems to be so much cleaner over there.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woolyback View Post
    Is it just me who thinks that the in goal judges in non televised matches are a waste of money, surely the money being spent on their expenses would be better served by training up more referees to have the Australian system of two referees, one policing the ruck and the other to have more control over the game in general, the play the ball seems to be so much cleaner over there.
    We hardly have enough for each game, how are we going to have two per game?

    Plus some of the referees in the NRL aren't great. The system isn't all it's made out to be

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    We hardly have enough for each game, how are we going to have two per game?

    Plus some of the referees in the NRL aren't great. The system isn't all it's made out to be

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    They may not be that great, but they have a system that seems to limit the errors they do make, having less to focus on should improve their standards, the more you have to look for the more you miss. Im not saying their system is perfect, but it seems to work a hell of a lot better than ours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    We hardly have enough for each game, how are we going to have two per game?

    Plus some of the referees in the NRL aren't great. The system isn't all it's made out to be

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    Agreed, but the use of eight officials a week standing on try lines doing nothing apart from catching pneumonia seems to be a waste of money, Off the top of my head I can only think of a couple of occasions this season when they have been called to adjudicate , by the referee who always goes with his own decision anyway, it just seems a waste of resources, when they could be trained up to be linesmen and the more senior linesmen can be trained up to be co-referees.We all agree that the quality of officiating is poor, surely in this case two heads may be better than one

  8. #108
    In The South Stand Sean Day's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woolyback View Post
    Agreed, but the use of eight officials a week standing on try lines doing nothing apart from catching pneumonia seems to be a waste of money, Off the top of my head I can only think of a couple of occasions this season when they have been called to adjudicate , by the referee who always goes with his own decision anyway, it just seems a waste of resources, when they could be trained up to be linesmen and the more senior linesmen can be trained up to be co-referees.We all agree that the quality of officiating is poor, surely in this case two heads may be better than one
    Great points.

    I know it’s not a new idea but now that the refs are full time there’s no reason why it shouldn’t be attracting more ex players to have a go, plus those that don’t make it as players. 40k+ a year is a tidy wage for most players to earn by staying in the game for another 10 years or so, in fact it’s probably not far off what many earn as players. It just needs pushing and managing properly to make it an attractive career path. I know people will say they don’t want to be slated by the crowd but a) they’re used to being publicly criticised and working in hostile environments to start with and b) a bigger pool of officials will lead to better refs and less criticism.

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    I'm not sure, but I don't think that they are all full time now, I can't imagine last night's referee was, he seemed to be mentored by the the two assistants with their mikes throughout the game They were both long time touch judges, but he stilll made a lot of mistakes, at one stage I saw one of them shaking his head at one of his decisions, but I suppose he thought that he'd have to learn on the job, and the crowd would advise him accordingly which they did!.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    I don't think we have a decent referee. The guy refereeing last night was hopeless, he missed so many indiscretions. It was very frustrating to watch and I'm concerned teams will get away with murder in the Play Offs, especially when they try to contain our ruck speed.
    I don't think we can be too hard on him. He didn't seem to know when a ball had been knocked out or knocked on, and he got a couple wrong at the PTB. But he is normally a linesman in these sort of games, and we need these guys tom step up. Maybe a couple of wrong calls in a game like that is the price for bringing them through.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    I don't think we can be too hard on him. He didn't seem to know when a ball had been knocked out or knocked on, and he got a couple wrong at the PTB. But he is normally a linesman in these sort of games, and we need these guys tom step up. Maybe a couple of wrong calls in a game like that is the price for bringing them through.
    I know some folk are all for protecting referees and I can see the rationale, but some errors like last night are just completely inexplicable. Everyone in the ground could see that ball was knocked clean out of Thompson’s grip

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    I know some folk are all for protecting referees and I can see the rationale, but some errors like last night are just completely inexplicable. Everyone in the ground could see that ball was knocked clean out of Thompson’s grip
    It's a subjective call though, and you don't know what everyone in the ground saw

    It's the ball carriers responsibility to keep hold of the ball, if in the refs judgement they didn't take enough care of it and it was lost during the collision and tackle then they can judge it a knock on

    That's not protecting referees, it's just pointing out the rules and the system, something I accept but many others cannot

    I had a great chat to an old team mate last night, I asked about the game and he spoke about the players, tactics etc. Not one mention of the ref, it was an enjoyable conversation and such a difference to many fans who just see their role as judge of the officials

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    It's a subjective call though, and you don't know what everyone in the ground saw

    It's the ball carriers responsibility to keep hold of the ball, if in the refs judgement they didn't take enough care of it and it was lost during the collision and tackle then they can judge it a knock on

    That's not protecting referees, it's just pointing out the rules and the system, something I accept but many others cannot

    I had a great chat to an old team mate last night, I asked about the game and he spoke about the players, tactics etc. Not one mention of the ref, it was an enjoyable conversation and such a difference to many fans who just see their role as judge of the officials
    I understand the rule it but it was clear that he swung his arm at the ball and it came out cleanly, it wouldn’t have gone 5-10m otherwise. Same with the Walmsley one (last week or at Wembley, can’t remember) In actual fact I think it came out 10m back towards our line but I could be wrong in that. Other than that and a couple of other similar decisions (like Lomax passing the ball inside, then them shuttling it gradually dead and giving a knock on against us) I thought he did ok. Certainly didn’t seem hell bent on not giving us anything like Child did last week

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    I understand the rule it but it was clear that he swung his arm at the ball and it came out cleanly, it wouldn’t have gone 5-10m otherwise. Same with the Walmsley one (last week or at Wembley, can’t remember) In actual fact I think it came out 10m back towards our line but I could be wrong in that. Other than that and a couple of other similar decisions (like Lomax passing the ball inside, then them shuttling it gradually dead and giving a knock on against us) I thought he did ok. Certainly didn’t seem hell bent on not giving us anything like Child did last week
    Or just watch the game

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    Or just watch the game
    ...or just speak as I see fit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    I know some folk are all for protecting referees and I can see the rationale, but some errors like last night are just completely inexplicable. Everyone in the ground could see that ball was knocked clean out of Thompson’s grip
    Anyone could see that as soon as there was contact Thompson just decided to throw it 10 mtrs backwards. That was the one in particular I was thinking of when I said he couldn't see when a ball had been knocked out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    ...or just speak as I see fit
    Upside is the chief defender of referee's and on the redvee council of morality. In his spare time he writes letters of complaint to the Reporter about kids loitering near shops and the amount of dog muck in Taylor Park.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    ...or just speak as I see fit
    Faint enough, it's just gets tedious reading the same comments every week, I'm not sure if half the people on RedVee watch rugby, I think they only watch officials, each week being outraged that a knock on was missed and portraying shock at the standards. Venting their anger and seemingly gaining some strange satisfaction at telling the world someone's bad at their job

    As if by some miracle there's a queue of people who can officiate games without making errors! As if we complain enough somehow magic forces will create a sport where officials will not miss things.

    I repeat, talking to x players is a treat, they talk about rugby not bore everyone with huffing and puffing at the state of refs

    Continue the witch hunt under the illusion perfection is possible, I'll watch rugby and enjoy it, accepting decisions regardless (well mostly, I do have a moan occasionally then simply move on)

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    The only reason that I have ever suggested Linesmen watching the 10 metres is it allows the Ref to give undivided attention to the play the ball and lets face it , that needs looking at.

  20. #120
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    At the risk of repeating this we could do a lot worse than learn from union.

    It would take at least 5-10 years but their development starts a grass roots level and they have to earn promotions, not get the job because they're the only ones willing to take the wage.

    There is no way any of our officials would be top referees in Union or the NRL. Officiating standards have dropped so far Tim Roby was told he had to start his development all over again after emigrating from the UK

    Also watching the international game yesterday it was really interesting to hear the touch judges in constant communication with the ref. They were monitoring the off sides and infringments on the refs blind side and it had a great effect on speeding up the game.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    At the risk of repeating this we could do a lot worse than learn from union.

    It would take at least 5-10 years but their development starts a grass roots level and they have to earn promotions, not get the job because they're the only ones willing to take the wage.

    Also watching the international game yesterday it was really interesting to hear the touch judges in constant communication with the ref. They were monitoring the off sides and infringments on the refs blind side and it had a great effect on speeding up the game.


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    Should also imagine the management of match officials in RU is run much more professionally. Not like a boys club like Steve Ganson and his draw full of tissot watches and his mob currying for favours and a trip to Australia.

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    I think if you have been involved supporting games in the fifties ans sixties you will have seen far far worse refereee's and that includes Alex Murphy's mate 'Sargent Major Eric Clay'.
    The biggest problem now is that since the Sky involvement every major decision is picked over piece by piece. As soon as the ref makes a mistake he is undermined by the camera. Some authority is lost and eventually you get something like the debacle which occurred at Catalan vs Warrington when players totally got away with running rough shed over the ref. Maybe SKY instead of having a dig at the Chairman show a little bit of responsibility themselves

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    Well said roberto80

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    Quote Originally Posted by robert80 View Post
    I think if you have been involved supporting games in the fifties ans sixties you will have seen far far worse refereee's and that includes Alex Murphy's mate 'Sargent Major Eric Clay'.
    The biggest problem now is that since the Sky involvement every major decision is picked over piece by piece. As soon as the ref makes a mistake he is undermined by the camera. Some authority is lost and eventually you get something like the debacle which occurred at Catalan vs Warrington when players totally got away with running rough shed over the ref. Maybe SKY instead of having a dig at the Chairman show a little bit of responsibility themselves
    A post that says it all on Refs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    At the risk of repeating this we could do a lot worse than learn from union.

    It would take at least 5-10 years but their development starts a grass roots level and they have to earn promotions, not get the job because they're the only ones willing to take the wage.

    There is no way any of our officials would be top referees in Union or the NRL. Officiating standards have dropped so far Tim Roby was told he had to start his development all over again after emigrating from the UK

    Also watching the international game yesterday it was really interesting to hear the touch judges in constant communication with the ref. They were monitoring the off sides and infringments on the refs blind side and it had a great effect on speeding up the game.


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    I agree, union is far better. But to get better people at the top, or more people to chose from we need more at the bottom.
    There's a huge issue with abuse at lower levels, we need to fix this to encourage more to become officials
    Abuse at the top trickles down, so all the hassle officials get from those at the top, players, fans, staff etc. Has an affect lower down, which reduces applicants which reduces quality or numbers
    It's all connected

    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Should also imagine the management of match officials in RU is run much more professionally. Not like a boys club like Steve Ganson and his draw full of tissot watches and his mob currying for favours and a trip to Australia.
    It's more professional as they have more money to pay more people to have better facilities, it's also supported far better by the game, our game seems to hate refs, all justified as they made a mistake, (they also make mistakes in union) completely opposite mind set

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