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Thread: Standard of referees

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    Just posted on another thread that I agree but they are slated as arrogant and egotistical when they blow all the time

    I would be really happy if some of the posters from here went and applied to be a ref, their insight would be brilliant and help add balance to these discussions

    https://www.rugby-league.com/get_inv...match_official
    Thats ironic Referee Course held in Warrington.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    Just posted on another thread that I agree but they are slated as arrogant and egotistical when they blow all the time

    I would be really happy if some of the posters from here went and applied to be a ref, their insight would be brilliant and help add balance to these discussions

    https://www.rugby-league.com/get_inv...match_official
    Maybe you should go and fan girl them all.

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    The idea that a referee is responsible for managing the entertainment of a game is just utterly ridiculous. Seriously, which bright spark decided that was a good idea?

    Just for a second forgetting particularly contentious decisions and looking at this management of entertainment. At one point on Friday, to avoid blowing up for offside, the referee made the mark at about 14 metres. Some of the players ignored his line and stood a few metres in front. Some kept in line with him. The defensive line was a shambles and those who followed the ref were effectively penalised by giving up extra metres to the opposition. How the hell is that entertainment? It's a mess.

    In this example Saints were defending and perhaps should have been penalised. I'm not actually sure though as it was pretty difficult to work out where the 10 metre mark was. The referee and only the referee was responsible for that, he chose to arbitrarily create this 14 metre mark so no one knew how far to come back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    Just posted on another thread that I agree but they are slated as arrogant and egotistical when they blow all the time

    I would be really happy if some of the posters from here went and applied to be a ref, their insight would be brilliant and help add balance to these discussions

    https://www.rugby-league.com/get_inv...match_official
    You are aware referees in Super League are professional and paid to do the job?

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    You are aware referees in Super League are professional and paid to do the job?
    They get paid to do the job, I wouldn’t say they were very professional about doing it. If what has been said about Hicks comments on Rugby AM is true then it is worrying, referees are not there to make the rules, they are there to apply them in a fair and unbiased manner, Hicks’ comments basically say we make it up as we go along as its the entertainment business. Well if it is the entertainment business i have no doubt Fridays game has put people off as it wasn’t very entertaining with all the spoiling that Childs let Cas get away with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    I would be really happy if some of the posters from here went and applied to be a ref, their insight would be brilliant and help add balance to these discussions

    https://www.rugby-league.com/get_inv...match_official
    That's just silly. I can't sing a note in tune but that doesn't mean I need to be a professional singer to determine whether or not someone else is capable of singing.

    I refereed in football once, it was a terrible experience and I was terrible at it. Couldn't keep up with the play, didn't have the concentration levels. I'd be even worse as a ref in RL where there's five times as much to do. But these aren't people just 'giving it a go', these are people who do nothing but train to referee. They're taking my money (I've been to enough RFL events now) and giving a mickey poor return on it. Even leaving aside the decision making aspect, have fitness levels improved in the professional era? One look at Thaler on Saturday in France would suggest otherwise. He had to pull his shorts up to his boobs to cover his gut, how can he be trusted to make decisions when he isn't fit enough to keep up with play?

    I remember watching the London v Hull KR match earlier in the season. Chris Kendall had a superb game, and frankly every one of them should be made to watch it on repeat until they get the message. The offside line was policed consistently for both sides throughout without being picky about a winger being 20cm offside 40m away from the play-the-ball. Players were spoken to firmly, with a mutual respect and with decisions explained clearly. The video ref was used if he wasn't 100% sure. That's all anyone wants. None of this coaching, entertainment-managing nonsense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    You are aware referees in Super League are professional and paid to do the job?
    Point being? Is it ok to abuse someone if they are paid?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Private Pyle View Post
    That's just silly. I can't sing a note in tune but that doesn't mean I need to be a professional singer to determine whether or not someone else is capable of singing.

    I refereed in football once, it was a terrible experience and I was terrible at it. Couldn't keep up with the play, didn't have the concentration levels. I'd be even worse as a ref in RL where there's five times as much to do. But these aren't people just 'giving it a go', these are people who do nothing but train to referee. They're taking my money (I've been to enough RFL events now) and giving a mickey poor return on it. Even leaving aside the decision making aspect, have fitness levels improved in the professional era? One look at Thaler on Saturday in France would suggest otherwise. He had to pull his shorts up to his boobs to cover his gut, how can he be trusted to make decisions when he isn't fit enough to keep up with play?

    I remember watching the London v Hull KR match earlier in the season. Chris Kendall had a superb game, and frankly every one of them should be made to watch it on repeat until they get the message. The offside line was policed consistently for both sides throughout without being picky about a winger being 20cm offside 40m away from the play-the-ball. Players were spoken to firmly, with a mutual respect and with decisions explained clearly. The video ref was used if he wasn't 100% sure. That's all anyone wants. None of this coaching, entertainment-managing nonsense.
    Not everyone sees it that way yet you claim your view is what everyone wants, Ricky Stuart doesn't agree https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/n...2bc1853fb15616

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    Not everyone sees it that way yet you claim your view is what everyone wants, Ricky Stuart doesn't agree https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/n...2bc1853fb15616
    Hang on a minute. Where did I say I want referees giving 25+ penalties per game? Are you saying there are people who don't want the offside line to be 'policed consistently'? That's what I said. Are you saying there are people who don't want a 'video ref to be used if he wasn't 100% sure'? That's what I said.

    And literally the first quote from Ricky Stuart in the article is about the lack of consistency. Where does Ricky Stuart disagree with anything I've put in my post? In fact I specifically praised Kendall for not being picky about blowing up for every player who's offside, something which Ricky Stuart also says. Did you even bother to read my post or the article you quoted?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    Point being? Is it ok to abuse someone if they are paid?
    Point being they should be able to stand up to scrutiny, something that they do not seem to receive properly from the rfl. Its not like referees have only just got bad, they have been poor for a long time, its not like people a jumping on the throat of the ref for their first mistake, its been a catalogue of errors over the years and it doesnt seem like the rfl has done anything to improve it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsepho View Post
    Point being they should be able to stand up to scrutiny, something that they do not seem to receive properly from the rfl. Its not like referees have only just got bad, they have been poor for a long time, its not like people a jumping on the throat of the ref for their first mistake, its been a catalogue of errors over the years and it doesnt seem like the rfl has done anything to improve it.
    And also that they are paid to do a job just like everyone else is for a living. The way Hornswaggle went on about refs on SKY after Friday's game you would think they are volunteers doing the role as some sort of philanthropic gesture. They are professionals who earn money from the game and having chosen that path, do quite well out of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsepho View Post
    Point being they should be able to stand up to scrutiny, something that they do not seem to receive properly from the rfl. Its not like referees have only just got bad, they have been poor for a long time, its not like people a jumping on the throat of the ref for their first mistake, its been a catalogue of errors over the years and it doesnt seem like the rfl has done anything to improve it.

    I've played from a very young age for many years, to a good level, I've coached and been involved in many aspects and levels of the sport. The game has changed, a lot, it's faster, introduced ten metre rule, super league, scholarships etc etc. The only thing that remains the same is refs make mistakes, they are no worse than ever before in the history of the game.
    They do have many more things to view, it's faster, players are more creative in gaining an advantage, coaches aim to gain an advantage anyway they can, there's the wrestle, change in rules etc. All of which they have to contend with and judge, it should be no surprise to anyone that they make mistakes, and if we knew the percentage of mistakes compared to correct calls per game IMO it's no different than ever before in the history of the game

    What has changed is the amount of recorded games, video angle, scrutiny from media etc. All of which exposes those errors more than ever before, we also have coaches and chairman using these errors and the evidence to heap more pressure on the ref, we have social media, forums, chat rooms all of which keep the conversation growing about an error.
    The Wembley performance is a prime example, after the game most of the disappointment was against the team, look at this board, chokers, let down, players didn't perform with also mentioning the no try, but within a week it's all been forgotten and many posts and twitter feeds etc blame the ref for the result, hysteria grows and grows and it becomes a witch hunt.
    That why any governing body would prefer things behind closed doors, airing your dirty washing in public doesn't help the sport, valid points are welcome, discussion is needed, improvements should always be sought. But public critisim whips up more hatred and doesn't help, support for fans views imo could have been done in a better way, a call to arms, get behind us, we are better than this, I hear you, I know your frustration but let's go get this GF win!

    The people who look after appointment of officials in the amateur game are really struggling, I read frequently that amateur officials have left the game due to abuse, public critisim of officials endorses abuse at lower levels, I've seen some territble abuse, usually justified by the abuser because the ref was rubbish, my players have trained all week and we lost because of you so I can tell in your face, I've seen grown men yell at 13 year old refs, all endorsed as the ref didn't have a clause, at 13 they are still learning like the players, they need support. For me we should copy RU and show ultimate respect to refs at all times, acknowledge they make mistakes and let the weekly review which does take place in private monitor performance. As frustrating as it can be , a fan of a club, often without experience of playing themselves who has watched live are not in the bst position to judge officials performance.
    They get paid you may say, getting money doesn't mean you won't make an error, it doesn't mean your open to public abuse, it's a tough job and they should be paid.

    Lack of officials is a big big issue, public condemnation of them will not improve the bigger picture, it may gain a team an advantage in the next big game because there is a victim mentality which will,pressure the ref, football coaches have done it for years

    So unless we want an NFL style approach to stopping for a video ref at every opportunity we will always get errors. If we cannot live with errors or stoppages then the sport isn't for you as I don't see any other solution.

    There is evidence that refs are leaving the game, numbers are low, there are reports written on abuse of refs etc. There is no evidence that numbers of supporters have dropped because of refs, only the odd anecdote, often from people still attending but saying I'm going to stop

    I have also posted links which show coaches asking for infringements if minor to be ignored, I've seen posts on here critising refs for blowing to much, having an ego, wanting to be on tv instead of letting the game flow, then a week later the ref is ignoring decisions etc. This is proof that fans cannot decide what is a good ref performance, and change their mind regulalrly

    My view, play the ball properly, reward a good tackle by holding down just a few seconds, make sure the line is back ten, all of which is easier with a correct PTB and use correct numbers and call them by their number, but there are people whould disagree, I can live with that, I understand others have different opinions, if I can accept we won't all agree and refs are not always to blame I hope others can

    Respect each other, people say respect is earnt, I believe you respect people regardless, as saying it's earns suggests you disrespect them until proven, although I agree it can be lost

    The strap line enjoy the game is a good one imo, watch the rugby, just enjoy what you see, rather than go along to critique the officials and find new ways to blame the lack of expansion over 120 years and the lack of money in the game on someone now, often the RFL, when they may not be great but I sympathise with running s body with little money, in fighting, I northern image, calls for expansion, calls for investment locally etc. Etc. To much infighting is killing the game far more than external forces, the current system doesn't help, I still don't quite get how SL and RFL can run a comp who's actually in charge? So my call is to please empathise with the challenges the sport, our sport, faces and all get behind every initiative for the greater good and just enjoy the game at all levels, support players and officials alike
    Last edited by Upside; 2nd September 2019 at 11:28.

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    Apologies didn't realise it was that large when I was typing, went off on a tangent!

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    Well said Upside - A quality well thought out post

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    Apologies didn't realise it was that large when I was typing, went off on a tangent!
    Its better than playing at being Socrates and just asking other people questions.

    You have added to the debate but, I admit there is a fair amount of hindsight involved, I dont think that Hicks should have been appointed to officiate at Wembley after the publicity surrounding the death threat on Twitter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    It’s better than playing at being Socrates and just asking other people questions.

    You have added to the debate but, I admit there is a fair amount of hindsight involved, I don’t think that Hicks should have been appointed to officiate at Wembley after the publicity surrounding the death threat on Twitter.
    There's a time for views and s time for questions, questions can encourage people to rethink their views, time and place and all that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    There's a time for views and s time for questions, questions can encourage people to rethink their views, time and place and all that
    Agreed but you’ve put your own views in print and that adds to a difficult debate and gives people some food for thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    I've played from a very young age for many years, to a good level, I've coached and been involved in many aspects and levels of the sport. The game has changed, a lot, it's faster, introduced ten metre rule, super league, scholarships etc etc. The only thing that remains the same is refs make mistakes, they are no worse than ever before in the history of the game.
    They do have many more things to view, it's faster, players are more creative in gaining an advantage, coaches aim to gain an advantage anyway they can, there's the wrestle, change in rules etc. All of which they have to contend with and judge, it should be no surprise to anyone that they make mistakes, and if we knew the percentage of mistakes compared to correct calls per game IMO it's no different than ever before in the history of the game

    What has changed is the amount of recorded games, video angle, scrutiny from media etc. All of which exposes those errors more than ever before, we also have coaches and chairman using these errors and the evidence to heap more pressure on the ref, we have social media, forums, chat rooms all of which keep the conversation growing about an error.
    The Wembley performance is a prime example, after the game most of the disappointment was against the team, look at this board, chokers, let down, players didn't perform with also mentioning the no try, but within a week it's all been forgotten and many posts and twitter feeds etc blame the ref for the result, hysteria grows and grows and it becomes a witch hunt.
    That why any governing body would prefer things behind closed doors, airing your dirty washing in public doesn't help the sport, valid points are welcome, discussion is needed, improvements should always be sought. But public critisim whips up more hatred and doesn't help, support for fans views imo could have been done in a better way, a call to arms, get behind us, we are better than this, I hear you, I know your frustration but let's go get this GF win!

    The people who look after appointment of officials in the amateur game are really struggling, I read frequently that amateur officials have left the game due to abuse, public critisim of officials endorses abuse at lower levels, I've seen some territble abuse, usually justified by the abuser because the ref was rubbish, my players have trained all week and we lost because of you so I can tell in your face, I've seen grown men yell at 13 year old refs, all endorsed as the ref didn't have a clause, at 13 they are still learning like the players, they need support. For me we should copy RU and show ultimate respect to refs at all times, acknowledge they make mistakes and let the weekly review which does take place in private monitor performance. As frustrating as it can be , a fan of a club, often without experience of playing themselves who has watched live are not in the bst position to judge officials performance.
    They get paid you may say, getting money doesn't mean you won't make an error, it doesn't mean your open to public abuse, it's a tough job and they should be paid.

    Lack of officials is a big big issue, public condemnation of them will not improve the bigger picture, it may gain a team an advantage in the next big game because there is a victim mentality which will,pressure the ref, football coaches have done it for years

    So unless we want an NFL style approach to stopping for a video ref at every opportunity we will always get errors. If we cannot live with errors or stoppages then the sport isn't for you as I don't see any other solution.

    There is evidence that refs are leaving the game, numbers are low, there are reports written on abuse of refs etc. There is no evidence that numbers of supporters have dropped because of refs, only the odd anecdote, often from people still attending but saying I'm going to stop

    I have also posted links which show coaches asking for infringements if minor to be ignored, I've seen posts on here critising refs for blowing to much, having an ego, wanting to be on tv instead of letting the game flow, then a week later the ref is ignoring decisions etc. This is proof that fans cannot decide what is a good ref performance, and change their mind regulalrly

    My view, play the ball properly, reward a good tackle by holding down just a few seconds, make sure the line is back ten, all of which is easier with a correct PTB and use correct numbers and call them by their number, but there are people whould disagree, I can live with that, I understand others have different opinions, if I can accept we won't all agree and refs are not always to blame I hope others can

    Respect each other, people say respect is earnt, I believe you respect people regardless, as saying it's earns suggests you disrespect them until proven, although I agree it can be lost

    The strap line enjoy the game is a good one imo, watch the rugby, just enjoy what you see, rather than go along to critique the officials and find new ways to blame the lack of expansion over 120 years and the lack of money in the game on someone now, often the RFL, when they may not be great but I sympathise with running s body with little money, in fighting, I northern image, calls for expansion, calls for investment locally etc. Etc. To much infighting is killing the game far more than external forces, the current system doesn't help, I still don't quite get how SL and RFL can run a comp who's actually in charge?
    Wow, that is incredibly wordy, other sports have also got faster yet the officials either seem to cope or they have brought in systems to assist officials in decision making. For example rugby union, the TMO watches the game and assists in calling out any infringement such as late tackles, foul play and ensuring that when 2 knock ons occur the decision goes the right way, why cant rugby league introduce that, it works very well. I do agree the respect for officials used in rugby union should be brought to league, i also think the referees should stop going back with the defensive line, leave that to the 2 touch judges, and focus on the ruck area, where the vast majority of penalties seem to occur, Childs couldnt see McShane stood right in front of him 2 yards offside the entire game. I think a lot of the cause of exasperation can be put in a few simple categories:

    1. The use of technology in the game is selective, all trys should be checked, like knowles last week, lomax this week, i would rather they take an extra minute to get the corrct decision than them guess and get it wrong. I also think having the video refs decision making broadcast on sky and over speakers in the stadium could help as well ala the DRS system in cricket.
    2. The rfl should do explanations of any rule changes to fans before the start of the season, the MCC do this for cricket, this will help improve fans understanding but also engage the fans and rfl in conversation.
    3. The disciplinary process needs consistency, 2 similar incidents could happen over 2 weekends yet 2 different punishments can be applied, perhaps video of the incidents could be provided with the reports on the website.
    4. The rfl has the appearance of bias to certain teams, it needs a clear root and branch clear out and restructure of its management system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsepho View Post
    Wow, that is incredibly wordy, other sports have also got faster yet the officials either seem to cope or they have brought in systems to assist officials in decision making. For example rugby union, the TMO watches the game and assists in calling out any infringement such as late tackles, foul play and ensuring that when 2 knock ons occur the decision goes the right way, why cant rugby league introduce that, it works very well. I do agree the respect for officials used in rugby union should be brought to league, i also think the referees should stop going back with the defensive line, leave that to the 2 touch judges, and focus on the ruck area, where the vast majority of penalties seem to occur, Childs couldnt see McShane stood right in front of him 2 yards offside the entire game. I think a lot of the cause of exasperation can be put in a few simple categories:

    1. The use of technology in the game is selective, all trys should be checked, like knowles last week, lomax this week, i would rather they take an extra minute to get the corrct decision than them guess and get it wrong. I also think having the video refs decision making broadcast on sky and over speakers in the stadium could help as well ala the DRS system in cricket.
    2. The rfl should do explanations of any rule changes to fans before the start of the season, the MCC do this for cricket, this will help improve fans understanding but also engage the fans and rfl in conversation.
    3. The disciplinary process needs consistency, 2 similar incidents could happen over 2 weekends yet 2 different punishments can be applied, perhaps video of the incidents could be provided with the reports on the website.
    4. The rfl has the appearance of bias to certain teams, it needs a clear root and branch clear out and restructure of its management system.
    1. Yes the use of technology needs to be reviewed, I'd like us to work with cricket and union to find what works well for them
    2. I've read explanations before, for me that's more than enough, what else in addition would you like?
    3. It's so subjective, what are the same incidents to a fan may not be the same to the panel. They also take on board previous, which would also affect any punishment.
    4. Where is the evidence of bias? You cannot act on suspicion. What is their management structure, what about it needs to change, what should it change to? I don't know the inner workings of the rfl, I don't know all the people who work there, what they do, what their budget is, what their full remit is, without knowing that I'm not sure anyone can say what needs fixing. I'm not saying it's right just that I don't know, I'd be guessing and i think most others saying they are all bad are also guessing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cojam24 View Post
    Well said Upside - A quality well thought out post
    Thank you Cojam24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsepho View Post
    Wow, that is incredibly wordy, other sports have also got faster yet the officials either seem to cope or they have brought in systems to assist officials in decision making. For example rugby union, the TMO watches the game and assists in calling out any infringement such as late tackles, foul play and ensuring that when 2 knock ons occur the decision goes the right way, why cant rugby league introduce that, it works very well. I do agree the respect for officials used in rugby union should be brought to league, i also think the referees should stop going back with the defensive line, leave that to the 2 touch judges, and focus on the ruck area, where the vast majority of penalties seem to occur, Childs couldnt see McShane stood right in front of him 2 yards offside the entire game. I think a lot of the cause of exasperation can be put in a few simple categories:

    1. The use of technology in the game is selective, all trys should be checked, like knowles last week, lomax this week, i would rather they take an extra minute to get the corrct decision than them guess and get it wrong. I also think having the video refs decision making broadcast on sky and over speakers in the stadium could help as well ala the DRS system in cricket.
    2. The rfl should do explanations of any rule changes to fans before the start of the season, the MCC do this for cricket, this will help improve fans understanding but also engage the fans and rfl in conversation.
    3. The disciplinary process needs consistency, 2 similar incidents could happen over 2 weekends yet 2 different punishments can be applied, perhaps video of the incidents could be provided with the reports on the website.
    4. The rfl has the appearance of bias to certain teams, it needs a clear root and branch clear out and restructure of its management system.
    Ever since this current, post Wembley, debate started, I’ve been saying that it’s the systems that need to change. Individual officials will always make mistakes but good systems can mitigate agains that.

    I only ever see Rugby Union Internationals, which clearly means that the very best of their officials are involved. From my perspective, however, I think their systems are better than ours and we could learn from them.

    The technology used in cricket actually improves the viewing experience for me. I’d probably never understand LBW decisions without the projected line of the ball being shown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Private Pyle View Post
    That's just silly. I can't sing a note in tune but that doesn't mean I need to be a professional singer to determine whether or not someone else is capable of singing.

    I refereed in football once, it was a terrible experience and I was terrible at it. Couldn't keep up with the play, didn't have the concentration levels. I'd be even worse as a ref in RL where there's five times as much to do. But these aren't people just 'giving it a go', these are people who do nothing but train to referee. They're taking my money (I've been to enough RFL events now) and giving a mickey poor return on it. Even leaving aside the decision making aspect, have fitness levels improved in the professional era? One look at Thaler on Saturday in France would suggest otherwise. He had to pull his shorts up to his boobs to cover his gut, how can he be trusted to make decisions when he isn't fit enough to keep up with play?

    I remember watching the London v Hull KR match earlier in the season. Chris Kendall had a superb game, and frankly every one of them should be made to watch it on repeat until they get the message. The offside line was policed consistently for both sides throughout without being picky about a winger being 20cm offside 40m away from the play-the-ball. Players were spoken to firmly, with a mutual respect and with decisions explained clearly. The video ref was used if he wasn't 100% sure. That's all anyone wants. None of this coaching, entertainment-managing nonsense.
    This, this, this.

    Every time the RFL release a press statement or Riveting Ralph (not me by the way) it's always the same old diatribe...'we look forward to more fast, exciting rugby league', rugby league has never been afraid to innovate' 'the challenge cup final is one of the most important occasions on the sporting calender.' Really? I mean really?

    Their innovations are largely bats for rags ideas that have fell by the wayside, people are turning away from the sport in their droves, the amateur game is sat on it's bum & the sport's main broadcaster shows the sport as some cheap version of WWE.

    I'll be backing McManus and the club to the hilt until our season ends but I'm seriously fed up with the dross served up week after week & the complete lottery of a refereeing display week after week. There is one decent referee in SL, & that is Kendall. The rest of them are utterly rubbish.

    There is no strategy in place to improve the standard of refereeing & sort the mess out that is currently the ruck. Yes, dominant tackles earn you an extra couple of seconds but the contrast in ruck speed game to game is ridiculous. Added to that, bigger games are refereed differently, with more & more infringements ignored for the sake of the speed of the game?

    It's so bad it's almost laughable
    Dave Woods: the guy who makes Eddie Hemmings look like a decent commentator

  23. #73
    Learning All The Songs
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    There is so much wrong it's difficult to know where to begin. The RFL as an organisation is rotten to the core, it's an old boys network now more than ever. Super League is slightly more progressive but the self-interest of the member clubs will always limit it's ability to make change happen.

    I think it's time they got around a table and worked proactively at improving the situation in the sport. Wembley was more than half empty, in reality the 62,000 announced was more like 38/40 people actually there. They need to find out why it's so unattractive and what is putting people off.

    In terms of referees there are a few things that are very clear:

    1 - The current pool of referees is too small. It causes issues when you get officials who are too pally with certain players due to over familiarity and the converse where teams develop issues with certain referees who they perceive to have impacted their games.
    2 - Referees need to be appraised properly and helped as appropriate. Hicks refereeing such a big game this week, a relegation battle at London which was again full of controversy was just wrong. He should have been sitting out a few weeks and refereeing at a lower level so there is less pressure and less focus on him.
    3 - The video referee system as it stands is broken and again adds pressure to the officials. The system of the referee referring his decision upstairs is just wrong. If they are referring it upstairs it is because there is doubt or they haven't seen what happened. The current system means the video ref is subconsciously pressured into supporting the on-field decision, one they had doubt over. They'll focus so much on trying to prove the referee is correct that they miss other things, such as the restart at Wembley going to Warrington when the first knock on was clearly onto Taia by Warrington. I propose that video referees should check every try ala VAR and use a light system on the scoreboard to indicate whether a review is required. If the on field referee is in doubt, he just refers it upstairs with no bias as to the decision. The referee and video referee should then be able to talk and discuss what happened, all fed to the crowd so they understand the decision.
    4 - They need to look at whether the two referee system in the NRL is better. Speak to the NRL clubs, players, coaches and referees. Put some effort into the game for once and investigate this. One benefit of this is that the second referee role can be a brilliant tool for developing referees and giving them exposure, but with the support of an experienced official.
    5 - The sport needs to pay the officials more money. A few of the current crop aren't high quality individuals, they are just geeks who stayed around long enough to end up where they have. It should pay so well it's worth pursuing as a career. That goes for the touch judges as well. The guy who ran the line against Castleford stood on the pitch throughout, presumably because he couldn't see well enough. There are young referees in the amateur and junior game who could do a better job than some of the current flag wavers and I'm in better shape than half of them and I've not done any physical exercise in years.

  24. #74
    Noooobie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    1. Yes the use of technology needs to be reviewed, I'd like us to work with cricket and union to find what works well for them
    2. I've read explanations before, for me that's more than enough, what else in addition would you like?
    3. It's so subjective, what are the same incidents to a fan may not be the same to the panel. They also take on board previous, which would also affect any punishment.
    4. Where is the evidence of bias? You cannot act on suspicion. What is their management structure, what about it needs to change, what should it change to? I don't know the inner workings of the rfl, I don't know all the people who work there, what they do, what their budget is, what their full remit is, without knowing that I'm not sure anyone can say what needs fixing. I'm not saying it's right just that I don't know, I'd be guessing and i think most others saying they are all bad are also guessing
    On point 2 i am not advocating written explanations, videos would be far better, the MCC through their Lords Cricket Ground YouTube Channel has some excellent videos showing the rules and usually do an update each year demonstrating the changes visually. I think an awful lot of fans would engage with this to help improve their understanding and enjoyment of the game. On point 3 how many times have you seen a disciplinary report where you are questioning the incident cited, i tend to do quite a lot, surely you would want to see the incident rather than be in the dark about what happened, i know i would. Point 4 perception sometimes trumps reality, you are right it is hard to provide evidence on this point, just opinion, especially the disciplinary panel which seems to be harder on some clubs than others, especially in the weighting of bans.

  25. #75
    WARNING! PIE EATER!

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    Upside, that's one of the best posts I've ever read on any forum, top quality.

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