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Thread: Standard of referees

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    Default Standard of referees

    After the last 2 weeks can anyone say there is not an issue with the standard of refereeing in Super League, Hicks was very poor last week and Childs was even worse tonight. I know people will say they need support, but they have a support network in place and they are getting worse this year. When will the RFL take notice of the system used in the NRL and implement something similar, it works there, it can work here. People are tuning out on Sky and numbers are down at the grounds, its not because the standard of players arent there.

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    Ive never been one for hammering refs but the last 12 months, the standard has been winding me up.

    Its a difficult job but if I was as bad at my job as some of these are at theirs, Id have been binned.


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    Quote Originally Posted by undertheradar View Post
    Ive never been one for hammering refs but the last 12 months, the standard has been winding me up.

    Its a difficult job but if I was as bad at my job as some of these are at theirs, Id have been binned.


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    The problem imo is the reluctance to let refs be semi professional. We lost a lot of experienced people and have never replaced them.

    This means instead of learning the trade in lower levels, anyone willing to go full time get a job in super league. In union an aspiring ref has to start at society level and earn promotions through the grades.

    They also get ex players coaching them on technical issues like scrums and lineout to help them. We have the egomaniac Ganson

    We have people who may know the laws but really dont know the game

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    The problem imo is the reluctance to let refs be semi professional. We lost a lot of experienced people and have never replaced them.

    This means instead of learning the trade in lower levels, anyone willing to go full time get a job in super league. In union an aspiring ref has to start at society level and earn promotions through the grades.

    They also get ex players coaching them on technical issues like scrums and lineout to help them. We have the egomaniac Ganson

    We have people who may know the laws but really dont know the game

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    In addition, can anybody honestly say the standard has improved since they went full time? How much money is that costing the game every year for no return?

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    A lot of people say we need 2 refs for all matches, as they do in the NRL.

    Where the hell are we supposed to get them from?
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    if you ask the RFL about quality of referees they will refer yo to the new team looking at the quality of officials. here you will see that they say the quality as improved over last 2 yrs and that they have accepted what the review as put to them.... one of which is the use of OPTA stats ... this confused me as can see how this improves the quality( might improve the fitness) so are the stars being looked at number of times we go tho the screen , number of time you blow for offences, cant see how star can improve right or wrong call, or long short 10 metre. or even how high a tackle as to be for it to be called high.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    The problem imo is the reluctance to let refs be semi professional. We lost a lot of experienced people and have never replaced them.

    This means instead of learning the trade in lower levels, anyone willing to go full time get a job in super league. In union an aspiring ref has to start at society level and earn promotions through the grades.

    They also get ex players coaching them on technical issues like scrums and lineout to help them. We have the egomaniac Ganson

    We have people who may know the laws but really dont know the game

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    That is a good point,as long as the ref is fit enough to keep up with play then being pro or not doesn't matter. We need more refs and not have to use the same pool over and over. Wasn't it because of Ganson that the rule of not being able to ref your home town team got changed ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by brook View Post
    That is a good point,as long as the ref is fit enough to keep up with play then being pro or not doesn't matter. We need more refs and not have to use the same pool over and over. Wasn't it because of Ganson that the rule of not being able to ref your home town team got changed ?
    Yea cos he couldn't get a final cos we were always in them.

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    I think we have lost our way with the Video ref. This system we have of the ref sending it up as a try or no try defeats the object. Unless it's something glaringly obvious the VR rarely goes against the on field ref.
    I think this was introduced to stop the VR deliberating for ages, the answer there maybe a 30 second stop clock on the VR.

    Also the current arguement re reds not going yo VR maybe it's time to have a similar system to cricket where a team is allocated a number of reviews.

    Having quickly looked back at Lomax's "try" last night which was denied for offside, a Saints player asks him to go to the VR he replies that he doesn't need it. Whether he is right or not isn't the issue but in a decision that can decide a game surely it is better to make sure.
    He had used it earlier just to decide whether it was a drop out or a tap 20

    I dont think we can ever get rid of VR but we need to review the way we use it.

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    With regard to the Lomax try , Childs would have sent it up as a no try and I’m pretty sure that the video ref wouldn’t overrule him .

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnno65 View Post
    With regard to the Lomax try , Childs would have sent it up as a no try and I’m pretty sure that the video ref wouldn’t overrule him .
    Agree mate.

    Do you remember Peyroux's effort against Warrington a few years back that got sent up to the VR as no try? On review it was a clear try & the on field call was upheld
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Agree mate.

    Do you remember Peyroux's effort against Warrington a few years back that got sent up to the VR as no try? On review it was a clear try & the on field call was upheld
    That was the 2016 semi for Old Trafford. That was a try all day, Ralph. Terrible refereeing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnno65 View Post
    With regard to the Lomax try , Childs would have sent it up as a no try and I’m pretty sure that the video ref wouldn’t overrule him .
    I don’t really get this line of argument. If he had seen what happened rather than what he thought had happened then he’d have sent it up as a try. That said, the system is a nonsense anyway. You can have a ref not having a clue but having to flip a coin in his head which then massively influences the VR’s decision making process

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    I don’t really get this line of argument. If he had seen what happened rather than what he thought had happened then he’d have sent it up as a try. That said, the system is a nonsense anyway. You can have a ref not having a clue but having to flip a coin in his head which then massively influences the VR’s decision making process
    Agree,the ref's call has been a massive problem for a long time now,it doesn't work and needs to be removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    I dont really get this line of argument. If he had seen what happened rather than what he thought had happened then hed have sent it up as a try. That said, the system is a nonsense anyway. You can have a ref not having a clue but having to flip a coin in his head which then massively influences the VRs decision making process
    But he thought ( rightly or wrongly) that he saw an obstruction so Im pretty sure he would have sent it up as a no try .

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    Rugby League needs to look at Rugby Union’s use of video both in respect of not having the referee overly influence the review by stating his opinion and also by allowing the video ref to interject when something needs to be looked at. In Union every try/no try is looked at by the Television Match Official who will advise the referee if there needs to be a formal review. In the case of the Knowles and Lomax decisions over the past two games, in Union the TMO would have quickly looked at the footage and told the referee that reviews were needed. The same process is followed where there are incidents of foul play that the referee has missed which may result in sendings off or sin binnings. Some may level criticism that such interventions affect the flow of the game but I think most fans would rather see the correct decision being made.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    Rugby League needs to look at Rugby Union’s use of video both in respect of not having the referee overly influence the review by stating his opinion and also by allowing the video ref to interject when something needs to be looked at. In Union every try/no try is looked at by the Television Match Official who will advise the referee if there needs to be a formal review. In the case of the Knowles and Lomax decisions over the past two games, in Union the TMO would have quickly looked at the footage and told the referee that reviews were needed. The same process is followed where there are incidents of foul play that the referee has missed which may result in sendings off or sin binnings. Some may level criticism that such interventions affect the flow of the game but I think most fans would rather see the correct decision being made.

    I pretty much agree with that. I think we should also follow Yawnion in as much as the ref addresses players by their surname or number rather than first name. There's too much "mateyness" between players and officials. You'll be getting Chairmen having meetings with officials before major showpiece occasions next, what could that possibly lead to...…………………………………….

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnno65 View Post
    With regard to the Lomax try , Childs would have sent it up as a no try and I’m pretty sure that the video ref wouldn’t overrule him .
    I wasn't referring to the outcome of the decision but the referee's refusal or reluctance to use it.

    I was brought on the system that it's only a Try or Knock On etc if the Referee says it is, so I accept that refs are fallible and likely to make some mistakes.
    Now we have the technology available and a system in place to help them to not use it is either stupid or arrogant, especially as it can leave themselves open to be pilloried if the cameras and TV pundits cast doubt on their decisions,

    I'm not suggesting every try should be referred to the VR but some sort of system where a captain can ask for a review maybe helpful.


    Going back to the Child's incident he was a bit late giving that decision so maybe the VR had had a word in his ear anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prez View Post
    I pretty much agree with that. I think we should also follow Yawnion in as much as the ref addresses players by their surname or number rather than first name. There's too much "mateyness" between players and officials. You'll be getting Chairmen having meetings with officials before major showpiece occasions next, what could that possibly lead to...…………………………………….
    I feel the same about the video ref and on field decision Passed up and the first name terms is to pally and negates the referee's authority. I took a Union pal recently and he couldn't believe that Only televised games had video reffing he thought it was unfair and all top flight games should have it but I'm not sure how that would work if pie tv wasn't present.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armourer View Post
    I feel the same about the video ref and on field decision Passed up and the first name terms is to pally and negates the referee's authority. I took a Union pal recently and he couldn't believe that Only televised games had video reffing he thought it was unfair and all top flight games should have it but I'm not sure how that would work if pie tv wasn't present.
    It would mean clubs having to pay for their own screens and the RFL having to stump up extra cash for VR's so not a chance it will happen with the amount of grippy, skint Yorkies involved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armourer View Post
    I feel the same about the video ref and on field decision Passed up and the first name terms is to pally and negates the referee's authority. I took a Union pal recently and he couldn't believe that Only televised games had video reffing he thought it was unfair and all top flight games should have it but I'm not sure how that would work if pie tv wasn't present.
    When you consider the Saints are most probably on SKY more than other team then they are subject to more scrutiny and controversy around the field/video ref. What is niggling me now and I've only just noticed it the past couple of games is the amount of times the touch judges are not running the line but are actually on the field of play 5 to 10 metres inside instead of assisting the ref with off sides, infringements etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HoofeHearted View Post
    A lot of people say we need 2 refs for all matches, as they do in the NRL.

    Where the hell are we supposed to get them from?
    Take out the in goal judges, put ex refs in video ref boxes at every game, you come out +1 extra active official available from every non sky game each weekend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    It would mean clubs having to pay for their own screens and the RFL having to stump up extra cash for VR's so not a chance it will happen with the amount of grippy, skint Yorkies involved.
    Thought as much its a money thing then it will always be an imbalanced system with some games having the tech and some not, while I'm at it I would also dispense with the tacky try/no-try roulette wheel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    It would mean clubs having to pay for their own screens and the RFL having to stump up extra cash for VR's so not a chance it will happen with the amount of grippy, skint Yorkies involved.
    Dont need a screen to have a video ref

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armourer View Post
    Thought as much its a money thing then it will always be an imbalanced system with some games having the tech and some not, while I'm at it I would also dispense with the tacky try/no-try roulette wheel
    Yes, so would I. Yet another cheap gimmick.

    Quote Originally Posted by southernsaint7 View Post
    Dont need a screen to have a video ref
    Fair point.

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