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Thread: Every game matters...?

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    Learning All The Songs KentishBarry's Avatar
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    Default Every game matters...?

    Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, and I know it could have been different, but you can see why SKY want the GF format when you look at the table as it stands.
    Apart from us, the next 6 teams have everything to play for to qualify for the playoffs, and any two of them could still fail to qualify (I haven't looked at who plays who so I may be wrong, but looking at the simple maths, that seems to be the case).
    It's a similar for the bottom 5, any of which could be facing the drop!
    We don't need to win the last three, but we will be keen to do so, not just as pros, but to build up momentum and confidence for the PO's

    Every game could matter to someone!
    Squeaky bum time?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, and I know it could have been different, but you can see why SKY want the GF format when you look at the table as it stands.
    Apart from us, the next 6 teams have everything to play for to qualify for the playoffs, and any two of them could still fail to qualify (I haven't looked at who plays who so I may be wrong, but looking at the simple maths, that seems to be the case).
    It's a similar for the bottom 5, any of which could be facing the drop!
    We don't need to win the last three, but we will be keen to do so, not just as pros, but to build up momentum and confidence for the PO's

    Every game could matter to someone!
    Squeaky bum time?
    But that would be the same scenario under the old 'top of the table are the champions' system.

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    Almost every sport is decided by a play off system.

    How can you be European Champions at football when you are only 2nd or 3rd in your own league, and could finish 2nd in the group stages? Same applies to the World Cup in both football and Cricket. You can become Olympic Champion but not win any of the heats.

    We've had a play off system in R.L. or the majority of it's existence.

    Everyone knows the format, let's just get on with it and stop moaning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    Almost every sport is decided by a play off system.

    How can you be European Champions at football when you are only 2nd or 3rd in your own league, and could finish 2nd in the group stages? Same applies to the World Cup in both football and Cricket. You can become Olympic Champion but not win any of the heats.

    We've had a play off system in R.L. or the majority of it's existence.

    Everyone knows the format, let's just get on with it and stop moaning.
    The difference is most of those sports have uneven playing schedules, don't they. For example, in the NFL the Washington Redskins will have almost entirely different set of fixtures to the New Orleans Saints; same in the NBA, NHL etc. Even using your example, the European Champions have pooled games which again creates a similar scenario.

    The obvious point here is that under those systems, play offs are required as you couldn't justify calling the team who has finished top being crowned champions when its highly likely they have played different opponents to their peers.

    To be honest your statement about 'not moaning' is a silly one because it fails to take into account the fundamental points above.

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    Im just wondering if there are any saints fans out there who DON'T think we will make the grand final in October? I personally can't see us cocking it up again. Lose 2 home games on the bounce? Not going to happen

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mancunian Saint View Post
    Im just wondering if there are any saints fans out there who DON'T think we will make the grand final in October? I personally can't see us cocking it up again. Lose 2 home games on the bounce? Not going to happen
    Unlikely but we quickly need to realise that to win these games, especially in the autumn, you have to roll your sleeves up and play a bit more direct than the way we have played all year

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    Almost every sport is decided by a play off system.

    How can you be European Champions at football when you are only 2nd or 3rd in your own league, and could finish 2nd in the group stages? Same applies to the World Cup in both football and Cricket. You can become Olympic Champion but not win any of the heats.

    We've had a play off system in R.L. or the majority of it's existence.

    Everyone knows the format, let's just get on with it and stop moaning.
    Because those are separate competitions from their league structures much like the old Premiership in RL. Finishing fifth in the premier league will never give you the title of Champions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mancunian Saint View Post
    Im just wondering if there are any saints fans out there who DON'T think we will make the grand final in October? I personally can't see us cocking it up again. Lose 2 home games on the bounce? Not going to happen
    It partly depends on whether we meet any aspiring Terry Newtons in the lead up to the play-offs in addition to any other injuries picked up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    It partly depends on whether we meet any aspiring Terry Newtons in the lead up to the play-offs in addition to any other injuries picked up.
    I know this may sound silly, but i personally think winning the grand final holds more prestige than the cc final

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    The difference is most of those sports have uneven playing schedules, don't they. For example, in the NFL the Washington Redskins will have almost entirely different set of fixtures to the New Orleans Saints; same in the NBA, NHL etc. Even using your example, the European Champions have pooled games which again creates a similar scenario.

    The obvious point here is that under those systems, play offs are required as you couldn't justify calling the team who has finished top being crowned champions when its highly likely they have played different opponents to their peers.

    To be honest your statement about 'not moaning' is a silly one because it fails to take into account the fundamental points above.
    Some good points on other sports.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mancunian Saint View Post
    I know this may sound silly, but i personally think winning the grand final holds more prestige than the cc final
    I didn't always believe that but I think history now shows that the best team tends to win the GF but a plucky underdog can win the CCF

    This Saints team still has the chance to prove that they are the best, if they win the GF it will silence everyone - they just need to go out and do it now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    It partly depends on whether we meet any aspiring Terry Newtons in the lead up to the play-offs in addition to any other injuries picked up.
    I think the RL has to an extent started to crack down on that now, though refs can never be 100% on it. Even Shirley Temple has been getting pinged recently for head highs, previously he seemed to be immune to penalties. Ben Westwood was probably the nearest to a present day Newton. We can moan about Saturday for different reasons, but dirty tactics from Warrington was not a cause of our failure.
    My concern with the GF is the potential 2 weeks off during the play offs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    I didn't always believe that but I think history now shows that the best team tends to win the GF but a plucky underdog can win the CCF

    This Saints team still has the chance to prove that they are the best, if they win the GF it will silence everyone - they just need to go out and do it now
    Yes,, another point is will it be worth playing full strength from now on to get up to speed for the playoffs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mancunian Saint View Post
    Yes,, another point is will it be worth playing full strength from now on to get up to speed for the playoffs?
    I'd definitely play full strength until the end of the season now. We'll have a week - maybe two - off in the play offs anyway

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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    I'd definitely play full strength until the end of the season now. We'll have a week - maybe two - off in the play offs anyway
    That's what I was thinking with the grand final only 6 weeks on Saturday

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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    I'd definitely play full strength until the end of the season now. We'll have a week - maybe two - off in the play offs anyway
    100% agree. the guys have had plenty of rest over the season and have been rotated well. Full strength from now on.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk DD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, and I know it could have been different, but you can see why SKY want the GF format when you look at the table as it stands.
    Apart from us, the next 6 teams have everything to play for to qualify for the playoffs, and any two of them could still fail to qualify (I haven't looked at who plays who so I may be wrong, but looking at the simple maths, that seems to be the case).
    It's a similar for the bottom 5, any of which could be facing the drop!
    We don't need to win the last three, but we will be keen to do so, not just as pros, but to build up momentum and confidence for the PO's

    Every game could matter to someone!
    Squeaky bum time?
    It can work both ways.

    You look at the title race in football last season and every single minute mattered. It was edge of the seat stuff every single week.

    In a Grand Final system, nothing matters till the end, as we proved last year and may well do so again this year.

    On an average season, somebody might finish top by four points. That's 27 games out of 29 where it's open and a defeat can be disastrous.

    Under a Grand Final system, the only defeats that are ever disastrous are for those hovering around mid-table who shouldn't even be in a race.

    If we talk about virtually all sports being decided by play-offs, well I'll flip that around. All sports that are popular in the US and Australia, where it's difficult to have each other play each other twice, have systems that are decided by play-offs. The British mentality is different and RL play-offs were used pre-1973 purely because 38 teams could never have an even fixture list.

    Alas, we all know the rules and they will never change now. We just have to get on with it, but each year, I genuinely wonder what the points in getting excited about any of the league games at all. Life would be far more interesting if we were at the bottom under the current system.
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    Learning All The Songs RJM25R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    Life would be far more interesting if we were at the bottom under the current system.
    So being bottom would be more interesting than being top and guaranteed 2 attempts to get to a GF?

    I’d wager any team in SL (and their supporters!) would swap places with us right now!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mancunian Saint View Post
    Im just wondering if there are any saints fans out there who DON'T think we will make the grand final in October? I personally can't see us cocking it up again. Lose 2 home games on the bounce? Not going to happen
    Unlikely. But if we lose the first one, the pressure will be immense for the second.

    And we know how this group handle pressure...and anything can happen in a one off game. See last Saturday for reference.


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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    So being bottom would be more interesting than being top and guaranteed 2 attempts to get to a GF?

    I’d wager any team in SL (and their supporters!) would swap places with us right now!
    Maybe not Warrington

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    Quote Originally Posted by undertheradar View Post
    Unlikely. But if we lose the first one, the pressure will be immense for the second.

    And we know how this group handle pressure...and anything can happen in a one off game. See last Saturday for reference.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I worry that, if we win the first play-off, we get a 2 week break before the final. Looking at what happened at the weekend I'd rather we were playing the week before with a full-strength team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakariki View Post
    I worry that, if we win the first play-off, we get a 2 week break before the final. Looking at what happened at the weekend I'd rather we were playing the week before with a full-strength team.
    I may have it wrong but I thought we get a week off in week 1 when 2 v 3 & 4 v 5. Then play the winners of 2 v 3 in week 2 then hopefully another week off, if we win, then the final a week later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tilly2006 View Post
    Maybe not Warrington
    More than anyone.....

    Swap 2nd for 1st, they win The LLS, get 2 bites at the treble......
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    It can work both ways.

    You look at the title race in football last season and every single minute mattered. It was edge of the seat stuff every single week.

    In a Grand Final system, nothing matters till the end, as we proved last year and may well do so again this year.

    On an average season, somebody might finish top by four points. That's 27 games out of 29 where it's open and a defeat can be disastrous.

    Under a Grand Final system, the only defeats that are ever disastrous are for those hovering around mid-table who shouldn't even be in a race.

    If we talk about virtually all sports being decided by play-offs, well I'll flip that around. All sports that are popular in the US and Australia, where it's difficult to have each other play each other twice, have systems that are decided by play-offs. The British mentality is different and RL play-offs were used pre-1973 purely because 38 teams could never have an even fixture list.

    Alas, we all know the rules and they will never change now. We just have to get on with it, but each year, I genuinely wonder what the points in getting excited about any of the league games at all. Life would be far more interesting if we were at the bottom under the current system.
    I'm not particularly advocating the current system. You know I'm of an 'older generation' who grew up with League Champions, CC and then Playoffs (Premiership trophy etc). That's why I still value the LLS.
    To be honest, I think we get too hung up about trophies. To me, they're a bonus. I like to strip back the game to it's prime objective which is to beat the other team. I guess for me, that means that every game matters?


    Quote Originally Posted by tilly2006 View Post
    I may have it wrong but I thought we get a week off in week 1 when 2 v 3 & 4 v 5. Then play the winners of 2 v 3 in week 2 then hopefully another week off, if we win, then the final a week later.
    Yes. That's correct.


    Just want to throw another something into the mix...
    Unless I'm missing something, in F1, it is possible for a driver to be crowned World Champion without actually winning a single race!
    Last edited by KentishBarry; 28th August 2019 at 14:27. Reason: typo

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    Learning All The Songs RJM25R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post

    Just want to throw another something into the mix...
    Unless I'm missing something, in F1, it is possible for a driver to be crowned World Champion without actually winning a single race!
    And after you’ve died......


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