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Thread: League leaders shield

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    Quote Originally Posted by superarch View Post
    But it was the choice of Leeds players on the day so little the club could do about it


    Seems to me some of the "fans" on this thread could take a leaf out of the Leeds players book! Celebrate the achievement and congratulate the players who put their bodies on the line every week to achieve it. SKY and opposition fans may denigrate the achievement, we as fans should celebrate it. Some may say it's the least important piece of silverware in a season, but it IS a piece of silverware. Do you think Wigan, Warrington, Hull, Cas or Leeds would be embarrassed to win it? They'd all be bl**dy grateful! Lighten up and enjoy the moment, those players have earned turning up week in and week out and winning, they deserve our respect.

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    I would much rather celebrate us winning the shield than have a sport possibly celebrating a team from 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th being Champions despite finishing miles behind on points. It's laughable.

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    I really can't see why this is being debated.

    Regardless of last weekend, regardless of of other teams and their attitude to it, we have won one of three trophies and £100,000.

    Not only that, we have won it convincingly. More points separate first from second than separate second from last in the league. We should be celebrating our dominance in the league and using this as motivation to kick on for the rest of the season.

    Yes, Wembley was a huge blow, but we haven't become a poor team overnight.
    We should use getting the shield on Friday to highlight our position as the best team in the country.

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    I don't think we can claim to be the best team in the country just yet. That tag belongs to the GF winners

    Most consistent team during the weekly qualifying rounds definitely but the champions are the best team

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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    I don't think we can claim to be the best team in the country just yet. That tag belongs to the GF winners

    Most consistent team during the weekly qualifying rounds definitely but the champions are the best team
    Not sure I agree with that.

    In my view good teams qualify for the final and the best team ON THE DAY wins the GF (like any one off game an underdog can win a final).

    The most consistent side wins the LLS.

    I think the only time you can say a team is the best side is if they win both the LLS AND the GF.

    Which Iím confident we will.


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    The league never lies whatever sport whatever country the best team wins the league. eg Castleford were the best team by miles a couple of seasons ago and we would all acknowledge that.
    Learned comment from The Don

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    Default The most consistent side wins the LLS.

    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    Not sure I agree with that.

    In my view good teams qualify for the final and the best team ON THE DAY wins the GF (like any one off game an underdog can win a final).

    The most consistent side wins the LLS.

    I think the only time you can say a team is the best side is if they win both the LLS AND the GF.

    Which Iím confident we will.


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    Spot on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zippy View Post
    I would much rather celebrate us winning the shield than have a sport possibly celebrating a team from 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th being Champions despite finishing miles behind on points. It's laughable.
    Indeed. I can never explain it to a non RL fan without them calling it a joke. I also know football fans who gave RL a go and bought season tickets until they got fed up of the relative unimportance of the week to week fixtures

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    Indeed. I can never explain it to a non RL fan without them calling it a joke. I also know football fans who gave RL a go and bought season tickets until they got fed up of the relative unimportance of the week to week fixtures
    It's like this

    - there's 29 weekly rounds, they aren't all played at an intense level and there's no significant pressure to perform
    - the team that is the most consistent has this acknowledged at the end of the year with a nice plate and a cash reward
    - they've done pretty well and they are usually installed as favourites for the big prize at the end
    - despite this the league is largely irrelevant so if your club has a chance of winning the GF it's best to have weeks where you take a tactical loss and a little less intense a work out
    - then the intensity ramps up, everyone is giving 100% until the end of the season until a winner is crowned
    - the champion team is the one that can play rugby league under extreme pressure and cope with those demands the best

    As I always say if we want the league leaders (note it's not champions) to have any credibility at all we need to drop the GF. No potential champion club busts a gut to win a LLS

    The league is an exercise in managing your squad and resources, it's not about trying to become the best team in the sport because there's no real reward for finishing top

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    The league never lies whatever sport whatever country the best team wins the league. eg Castleford were the best team by miles a couple of seasons ago and we would all acknowledge that.
    Not in the lashing down rain at Old Trafford they weren't. The one that really really counted
    Dave Woods: the guy who makes Eddie Hemmings look like a decent commentator

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    I would like Elstone to re label Superleague to the Premier Rugby League and league leaders at the end of the season are called Premiership Winners giving a visible equal footing with other sports winners on a league basis. The grand final winners to be called Grand Premier Champions or something similar to reflect it is a qualifying end of season competition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    It's like this

    - there's 29 weekly rounds, they aren't all played at an intense level and there's no significant pressure to perform
    - the team that is the most consistent has this acknowledged at the end of the year with a nice plate and a cash reward
    - they've done pretty well and they are usually installed as favourites for the big prize at the end
    - despite this the league is largely irrelevant so if your club has a chance of winning the GF it's best to have weeks where you take a tactical loss and a little less intense a work out
    - then the intensity ramps up, everyone is giving 100% until the end of the season until a winner is crowned
    - the champion team is the one that can play rugby league under extreme pressure and cope with those demands the best

    As I always say if we want the league leaders (note it's not champions) to have any credibility at all we need to drop the GF. No potential champion club busts a gut to win a LLS

    The league is an exercise in managing your squad and resources, it's not about trying to become the best team in the sport because there's no real reward for finishing top
    So in summary, we have a pretty shoddy competition yet no one can understand why no one wants to watch it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    It's like this

    - there's 29 weekly rounds, they aren't all played at an intense level and there's no significant pressure to perform
    - the team that is the most consistent has this acknowledged at the end of the year with a nice plate and a cash reward
    - they've done pretty well and they are usually installed as favourites for the big prize at the end
    - despite this the league is largely irrelevant so if your club has a chance of winning the GF it's best to have weeks where you take a tactical loss and a little less intense a work out
    -
    then the intensity ramps up, everyone is giving 100% until the end of the season until a winner is crowned
    - the champion team is the one that can play rugby league under extreme pressure and cope with those demands the best

    As I always say if we want the league leaders (note it's not champions) to have any credibility at all we need to drop the GF. No potential champion club busts a gut to win a LLS

    The league is an exercise in managing your squad and resources, it's not about trying to become the best team in the sport because there's no real reward for finishing top
    And that's why (in answer to the person you quoted) the non-RL follower sees the competition structure as a joke.

    I'm also yet to hear any convincing response to the fact that the teams in the majority of sports that use play offs (NFL, NBA, NHL, Cricket 50 over comp etc) will have different schedules whereas rugby league has a competition where everyone plays the same schedule.

    The former example demands there are play offs, the latter creates the impression of a sport which is commercially in the gutter that it has effectively sold out its League format for the sake of a few end of season cup games. Talk about selling the family silver....

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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    It's like this

    - there's 29 weekly rounds, they aren't all played at an intense level and there's no significant pressure to perform
    - the team that is the most consistent has this acknowledged at the end of the year with a nice plate and a cash reward
    - they've done pretty well and they are usually installed as favourites for the big prize at the end
    - despite this the league is largely irrelevant so if your club has a chance of winning the GF it's best to have weeks where you take a tactical loss and a little less intense a work out
    - then the intensity ramps up, everyone is giving 100% until the end of the season until a winner is crowned
    - the champion team is the one that can play rugby league under extreme pressure and cope with those demands the best

    As I always say if we want the league leaders (note it's not champions) to have any credibility at all we need to drop the GF. No potential champion club busts a gut to win a LLS

    The league is an exercise in managing your squad and resources, it's not about trying to become the best team in the sport because there's no real reward for finishing top
    Nicely summed up. I’d rather have the 100% intensity and cliff edge drama for 9-10 months a year like football rather than one. I know people will say that only applies to the top and bottom clubs but if I watch a game between two middling Super League teams it doesn’t have me on the edge of my seat just because one team might make the top 5 and one might not. RL is my first love but the last Premier League season had me loving every single week. Now I can take or leave Super League bar Saints. Just my opinion

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    Stiddy there was a time when things were just as you describe , the team that finished top were Champions and then a top 4 play off and 2 teams played in the afternoon at Old Trafford for the Premiership.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    Iíd rather have the 100% intensity and cliff edge drama for 9-10 months a year like football rather than one. I know people will say that only applies to the top and bottom clubs but if I watch a game between two middling Super League teams it doesnít have me on the edge of my seat just because one team might make the top 5 and one might not. RL is my first love but the last Premier League season had me loving every single week. Now I can take or leave Super League bar Saints. Just my opinion
    I think my point on this has always been is it realistic given how physical and fast the game is now? My worry would be that there is now a shot clock so rest during the games is minimal, the number interchanges have decreased so that minimises rest within games even further. To then go and have an absolute must win game every week is asking a hell of a lot for players IMO. Youíd probably end up with players filled up with injections trying to get through games every week and Iím not sure how fair that is, Iím not sure how great the standard would be. Iím not sure youíd see players coming through because I suspect coaches would rather switch players into different positions than trust a player who is inexperienced. I donít have the stats but at the top level, it seems to me like injuries are going up. Realistically a couple of injuries at one time could see your season over.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    The league never lies whatever sport whatever country the best team wins the league. eg Castleford were the best team by miles a couple of seasons ago and we would all acknowledge that.
    Not true.

    Maybe it does when you are 16 points clear, but the reality is that many teams know that weekly consistency is not the key to winning the title and therefore rest players accordingly.

    We all know now that Wigan and Leeds have deliberately took it easy to be firing on all cylinders come the end of the season. Just because they didn't finish top didn't mean they were not the best. They simply played the system using their intelligence. Had they needed to finish first then they may well have done so.

    One example from us was clearly 2000, when a win at home to Wigan would have seen us finish top. We lost 42-4 and didn't look bothered. Two weeks later we turfed them 54-16 at the JJB when it mattered and followed that up by beating them in the Grand Final. We finished second that year, but I have no doubts that we were the best team and would have finished top had it mattered.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Ged View Post
    Stiddy there was a time when things were just as you describe , the team that finished top were Champions and then a top 4 play off and 2 teams played in the afternoon at Old Trafford for the Premiership.
    I remember that, most players wore black boots and didn't have haircuts like a boyband members, fans didn't expect an "experience" and night games only happened a couple of times a year.

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    I appreciate that fans are disappointed after Wembley and see the presentation of the LLS as an anti-climax but to win it so convincingly needs to be applauded.

    Castleford need the points so it won't be an easy game, we need to get behind the players and help them put the disappointment of last week behind them

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    I remember that, most players wore black boots and didn't have haircuts like a boyband members, fans didn't expect an "experience" and night games only happened a couple of times a year.
    We mustn't forget the waft of Wintergreen ointment on those wind chilled chapped legs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    I appreciate that fans are disappointed after Wembley and see the presentation of the LLS as an anti-climax but to win it so convincingly needs to be applauded.
    Castleford need the points so it won't be an easy game, we need to get behind the players and help them put the disappointment of last week behind them
    Finishing top was critical for how in the new system you get theoretically an easier run to the final. I don’t care about a trophy for it. I won’t be getting excited about the team holding aloft. It’s a Sky thing. If I had my way I would scrap the trophy bit.
    As for getting behind the team? I understand I’m leaving myself open to criticism but ATM the way I feel after last week I need convincing that the team are worth my emotions now. I will go tonight but without any excitement. The reason is that I believe we will be as disappointed either in the GF semi or the GF itself as we were last Saturday. IMO we lose big games because we lack the know how. We lack the ability to con refs, to play grubby, to upset the opposition when it really counts in knockout rugby. We don’t have an enforcer, basically a s***house player like Bird, Hill, Tomkins etc. Being nice wins you nothing. I just don’t see us changing anytime soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    Finishing top was critical for how in the new system you get theoretically an easier run to the final. I donít care about a trophy for it. I wonít be getting excited about the team holding aloft. Itís a Sky thing. If I had my way I would scrap the trophy bit.
    As for getting behind the team? I understand Iím leaving myself open to criticism but ATM the way I feel after last week I need convincing that the team are worth my emotions now. I will go tonight but without any excitement. The reason is that I believe we will be as disappointed either in the GF semi or the GF itself as we were last Saturday. IMO we lose big games because we lack the know how. We lack the ability to con refs, to play grubby, to upset the opposition when it really counts in knockout rugby. We donít have an enforcer, basically a s***house player like Bird, Hill, Tomkins etc. Being nice wins you nothing. I just donít see us changing anytime soon.
    Would you scrap the £100,000 prize money? I wouldnít.

    Itís the fansí attitude that devalues the League Leaders Shield, nothing else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    Finishing top was critical for how in the new system you get theoretically an easier run to the final. I donít care about a trophy for it. I wonít be getting excited about the team holding aloft. Itís a Sky thing. If I had my way I would scrap the trophy bit.
    As for getting behind the team? I understand Iím leaving myself open to criticism but ATM the way I feel after last week I need convincing that the team are worth my emotions now. I will go tonight but without any excitement. The reason is that I believe we will be as disappointed either in the GF semi or the GF itself as we were last Saturday. IMO we lose big games because we lack the know how. We lack the ability to con refs, to play grubby, to upset the opposition when it really counts in knockout rugby. We donít have an enforcer, basically a s***house player like Bird, Hill, Tomkins etc. Being nice wins you nothing. I just donít see us changing anytime soon.

    I've been a Saints fan since 1957, seen us win finals and lose finals. Last week was disappointing but that's sport for you, it builds your hopes up then kicks you where it hurts.


    With regard to the second part of your post, I wouldn't like to see a player like Bird, Hill or Tomkins but I agree we seem to lack a player with "X" factor to give us an edge in the big games.
    The problem is teams play each other so often these days tactics and plays become predictable.
    We play to a pattern which is normally very effective but in the final and last years two semis the opposition coaches set their team upto counter our tactics and it has worked.

    Bit like a game of chess Holbrook needs a different gambit in the big games

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    We mustn't forget the waft of Wintergreen ointment on those wind chilled chapped legs.
    .......and March of the Gladiators, Basil Lowe playing records supplied by Rothery Radio, WagonWheels sold at Kiosks all around the ground, why do I miss those days, apart from getting up every two minutes from my seat to let a loose bladdered youth go for a leak, idiot away fans ringing a bell, occasionally fourth rate singers and bands bawling out incomprehensible songs to an indifferent crowd, do you think I might be getting old?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    I remember that, most players wore black boots and didn't have haircuts like a boyband members, fans didn't expect an "experience" and night games only happened a couple of times a year.
    A life before mobile 'phones, cyber bullying, reality TV and satellite channels, those were the days...……………………………..

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