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Thread: League leaders shield

  1. #26
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    We’re in a position that every other club would love to be in. Finishing top means a lot more this season than it did last. Plus there’s the significant prize money which can’t be scoffed at. It’s also a recognition of how well we’ve played this season. Only 3 losses in the league this season is a wonderful achievement and deserves to be celebrated as such.

  2. #27
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    I just find it strange that we are currently sat top of the pile with 50% more points than second place and people don't want to celebrate this!

    We are 20 years in on the GRand Final, some of our players weren't born when the first one occurred in 1998, so they've spent their entire lives, nevermind careers, with this system.

    Do I like it having so much emphasis on hitting form at the tail end of the season, when weather can be awful and the type of rugby displayed in the play-offs and final can be boring Cunningham-esque, No I don't.

    Do the teams that play with flair and style throughout the season and entertain from week one and accrue league points, benefit from doing so at the tail end of the season, No.

    Have we seen over the past several seasons that Castleford and St Helens have posted cricket scores, entertained throughtout the season, topped the table by quite a stretch and then failed to lift silverware, Yes.

    There has to be a connection, to falling attendances, when a lot of those games are meaningless. There's no pressure about winning, just finishing in the qualifying places and turn up and play conservative over a few knockout games.

    I'm not sure of the answer, a showpiece end of season occasion brings hype, publicity as per NFL Superbowl, but look at last season's Premier league race for the title - I'd say was probably more exciting over a longer period of time (as a supporter of neither Man City or Liverpool). Both have their merits, but if the results of the season simply don't really matter and it's impacting on the attendances across the season for all SL clubs, does a change need to occur?

    As for Friday's LLS presentation, accept it, walk it round as the players would walk around the pitch at the end of the game anyway, they've earned the trophy by being the runaway league leaders.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubber duckie View Post
    I'd disagree...you have to play ,27 game's is it?, to collect 'the sheild'....while you have to play at least 29 and possibly 31?, to win a grand final trophy.
    Interesting choice of words there RD, you are trying to be a "cute hoor". You "play" 27 games to possibly win the LLS, you can play to lose half of those and have a negative points difference yet still "collect" the GF.
    You could potentially go the full season unbeaten without a try scored against you whilst averaging 5-10 trys per match scored for and not even have 2 points or drop goal registered against you, but lose one match and you are not deemed a champion side.
    Worse still a cynical coach that does not like your club geography or ethos can send a team out in a semi to break your players.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    I just find it strange that we are currently sat top of the pile with 50% more points than second place and people don't want to celebrate this!

    We are 20 years in on the GRand Final, some of our players weren't born when the first one occurred in 1998, so they've spent their entire lives, nevermind careers, with this system.

    Do I like it having so much emphasis on hitting form at the tail end of the season, when weather can be awful and the type of rugby displayed in the play-offs and final can be boring Cunningham-esque, No I don't.

    Do the teams that play with flair and style throughout the season and entertain from week one and accrue league points, benefit from doing so at the tail end of the season, No.

    Have we seen over the past several seasons that Castleford and St Helens have posted cricket scores, entertained throughtout the season, topped the table by quite a stretch and then failed to lift silverware, Yes.

    There has to be a connection, to falling attendances, when a lot of those games are meaningless. There's no pressure about winning, just finishing in the qualifying places and turn up and play conservative over a few knockout games.

    I'm not sure of the answer, a showpiece end of season occasion brings hype, publicity as per NFL Superbowl, but look at last season's Premier league race for the title - I'd say was probably more exciting over a longer period of time (as a supporter of neither Man City or Liverpool). Both have their merits, but if the results of the season simply don't really matter and it's impacting on the attendances across the season for all SL clubs, does a change need to occur?

    As for Friday's LLS presentation, accept it, walk it round as the players would walk around the pitch at the end of the game anyway, they've earned the trophy by being the runaway league leaders.
    Its quite simple. Our supporters are aware of our awful record in big matches and there is a sense of pensiveness (at best) over the upcoming play offs given this is the 'real' decider on who gets to call themselves the Champions. Whether you agree with that format (I don't) is a different argument but its nothing we or the club can change.

    It disingenuous to pretend people should have some sort of selective amnesia. A lot of emotional capital has gone into supporting the side at various grounds up and down the country only to be let down, in most instances by sub standard performances and in a minority bad luck.

    I'll always support the team but I'm not going to pretend I'm over the moon with the LLS. Based on the track record of the club I'm nervous about the play offs and the bad result on Saturday is more in my mind than LLS I'm afraid

  5. #30
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    Good post sums it up for me
    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Its quite simple. Our supporters are aware of our awful record in big matches and there is a sense of pensiveness (at best) over the upcoming play offs given this is the 'real' decider on who gets to call themselves the Champions. Whether you agree with that format (I don't) is a different argument but its nothing we or the club can change.

    It disingenuous to pretend people should have some sort of selective amnesia. A lot of emotional capital has gone into supporting the side at various grounds up and down the country only to be let down, in most instances by sub standard performances and in a minority bad luck.

    I'll always support the team but I'm not going to pretend I'm over the moon with the LLS. Based on the track record of the club I'm nervous about the play offs and the bad result on Saturday is more in my mind than LLS I'm afraid
    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

  6. #31
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    Don't you think the players deserve some appreciation after a long hard season of them giving their all? When you see the likes of Roby battered and bruised after every round I know he doesn't see games as meaningless.

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    I can’t think of anything worse than us getting the shield on Friday. Every other club will be laughing, as ridiculous as it is. Whether people like it or not it’s the least important trophy with the cup second and the Grand Final first. We should quickly get it before the game and take it off.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Its quite simple. Our supporters are aware of our awful record in big matches and there is a sense of pensiveness (at best) over the upcoming play offs given this is the 'real' decider on who gets to call themselves the Champions. Whether you agree with that format (I don't) is a different argument but its nothing we or the club can change.

    It disingenuous to pretend people should have some sort of selective amnesia. A lot of emotional capital has gone into supporting the side at various grounds up and down the country only to be let down, in most instances by sub standard performances and in a minority bad luck.

    I'll always support the team but I'm not going to pretend I'm over the moon with the LLS. Based on the track record of the club I'm nervous about the play offs and the bad result on Saturday is more in my mind than LLS I'm afraid
    Spot on.

  9. #34
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    Default League leaders shield

    Quote Originally Posted by zippy View Post
    Don't you think the players deserve some appreciation after a long hard season of them giving their all? When you see the likes of Roby battered and bruised after every round I know he doesn't see games as meaningless.
    If the players treated the league as meaningless like the fans appear to want them to, there would be hell to pay on here as we scrape around for 4th place.

    We’re not going to be lifting it to crazy celebrations and fireworks, but the players and fans should be proud of an impressive league campaign and the trophy that comes as recognition for that.

    Lift it up, round of applause to recognise the efforts of the players so far, move on and concentrate on being 160 minutes away from being SL champions.


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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintH517 View Post
    I can’t think of anything worse than us getting the shield on Friday. Every other club will be laughing, as ridiculous as it is. Whether people like it or not it’s the least important trophy with the cup second and the Grand Final first. We should quickly get it before the game and take it off.
    Why will they be laughing at us? Why wouldn't they want to win it? It's not meaningless, if the players thought like some "fans" on here, they'd be putting in rubbish performances week in, week out. It's not our God given right as St Helens to win everything, indeed it's not our right to win anything. Skill, determination, team spirit and desire have made us finish top of the heap and got us to a CC Final that was thrown away courtesy of Hicks. Celebrate the players endeavour and achievement. Anyone laughing at us should take a look at where their team finished. I'd rather be us than them!

    On a different tack, I know there's many on this forum who know stats inside out, so does anyone know if one side has had three tries disallowed in a CC final in the modern era before? Or are we the only ones to be given this "honour"?

  11. #36
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    Any form of reaction from any other club is borne out of envy. End of story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zippy View Post
    Don't you think the players deserve some appreciation after a long hard season of them giving their all? When you see the likes of Roby battered and bruised after every round I know he doesn't see games as meaningless.
    Some of us believe that the prize for finishing top should actually be the Championship.

  13. #38
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    To be fair Wigan and Warrington have put in rubbish performances week in, week out and they might both end up as champions

    If you celebrate a LLS like you won the GF you do deserve to be laughed at a little IMO, only Castleford did that and it made them look proper small time

    Celebrate the players and their efforts, they've been fantastic and we've played proper entertaining rugby league, but don't celebrate like you're champions when you're not

  14. #39
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    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9dhlkg5r-UE

    When you watch a highlight video like that it's hard not to give them a rap for the year they've given us in the league

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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    To be fair Wigan and Warrington have put in rubbish performances week in, week out and they might both end up as champions

    If you celebrate a LLS like you won the GF you do deserve to be laughed at a little IMO, only Castleford did that and it made them look proper small time

    Celebrate the players and their efforts, they've been fantastic and we've played proper entertaining rugby league, but don't celebrate like you're champions when you're not
    To be fair to Cas, it's the first thing they'd won for ages.
    Obviously, opinions are divided on here about the value of LLS. It's probably an age thing, but I still value it. However, I can see the argument that other sides may be pacing themselves for the playoffs and the SL champions tag.
    I'll be acknowledging it on Friday, but I do think the timing is wrong. It would have been better to leave it until the last home game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prez View Post
    Why will they be laughing at us? Why wouldn't they want to win it? It's not meaningless, if the players thought like some "fans" on here, they'd be putting in rubbish performances week in, week out. It's not our God given right as St Helens to win everything, indeed it's not our right to win anything. Skill, determination, team spirit and desire have made us finish top of the heap and got us to a CC Final that was thrown away courtesy of Hicks. Celebrate the players endeavour and achievement. Anyone laughing at us should take a look at where their team finished. I'd rather be us than them!

    On a different tack, I know there's many on this forum who know stats inside out, so does anyone know if one side has had three tries disallowed in a CC final in the modern era before? Or are we the only ones to be given this "honour"?
    Because we’ve just bottled another big game and look at the players reaction when lifting it last year. That tells you exactly what they thought of it. If you don’t win the Grand Final or cup then it’s a meaningless award.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The frenchman View Post
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9dhlkg5r-UE

    When you watch a highlight video like that it's hard not to give them a rap for the year they've given us in the league

    Indeed but unfortunately, like last year, all that will be forgotten about if we don’t win on the 12th October.

  18. #43
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    No . Nothing to celebrate . Hub cap once again. Stuff it..

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    We should just get on with friday as a regular game and have it presented on the last home game. Or if we must just before the game with a handshake for Robes and that's it.
    Learned comment from The Don

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    I don't know when the actual presentation will be, but I would like to see it before the game. I think if that happened and the players came out and gave a round of applause to the fans, that would get the fans behind them for the game. I Can't imagine a presentation after the game if we lose.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintH517 View Post
    Because we’ve just bottled another big game and look at the players reaction when lifting it last year. That tells you exactly what they thought of it. If you don’t win the Grand Final or cup then it’s a meaningless award.
    Not this bottling thing again! Three disallowed tries (one which was disallowed correctly, the Tommy Mak one), a knock on resulting in an attacking scrum position from which they scored, which was a knock on by Wire, NOT us, to make it an 18 point turnaround in 30 degree heat with players who'd never been to Wembley before (bar Robes) and thanks to Hicks had to play catch up. There was no bottling. Officials cost us big time. If the club didn't think so, they wouldn't be demanding an explanation of the awful officiating. As to what the players thought of it, they're not going to be jumping around like idiots, can you imagine the reaction by "fans" if they did and then won nothing else? Get some perspective, honour the effort, desire, skill and belief that won us the LLS, your team deserves that. Then move on for the GF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr chips View Post
    No . Nothing to celebrate . Hub cap once again. Stuff it..
    Yeah we should've not bothered this year and finished tenth, I'm sure that would've been much more appreciated. Do you not see what it takes to lose just three matches form your players? Or is it that you just don't care? Are you actually a fan? I can tell you that most of us who watch Saints matches actually appreciate seeing us beating pretty much everyone with our class and style.

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    I don't think anyone's trying to build the LLS up into something it isn't. We all know it's not in the same bracket as the CC & GF but nonetheless it should be celebrated albeit in a toned down way. I for one am glad we've won it and we've been royally entertained this season it's been brilliant following the team . Is it enough to call our season a success ? definitely not . We really need the GF for that to be the case

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    Its by no means hard to win.
    Teams take their foot off the gas in august / september. Even we did it twice at London. Its a nothing trinket in a nothing competetion until the playoffs start.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zerohero1266 View Post
    Its by no means hard to win.
    Teams take their foot if the gas in august / september. Even we did twice at London. Its a nothing trinket in a nithing competetion until the playoffs start.
    So in other words, despite us being told 'every game matters' the reality it doesn't. You couldn't script it.

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