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    Default Bleating on to the RFL - Embarrassing

    So, we’ve made an official complaint to the RFL about Robert Hicks’ performance. Now, Hicks was horrendous, don’t get me wrong but when your having a game refereed by him, you need to understand that you’re going to be on the end of some bad decisions, it goes with the territory and while he did make some truly awful decisions for both sides, to complain post match about it is embarrassing and stinks of sour grapes.

    Complain about 17-18 handling errors, complain about a turnstile in defence in Percival, complain about our forwards being woeful, complain about our players looking undercooked and out of form, complain about our halves being on the bus for the whole game but don’t go and blame the referee.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    So, we’ve made an official complaint to the RFL about Robert Hicks’ performance. Now, Hicks was horrendous, don’t get me wrong but when your having a game refereed by him, you need to understand that you’re going to be on the end of some bad decisions, it goes with the territory and while he did make some truly awful decisions for both sides, to complain post match about it is embarrassing and stinks of sour grapes.

    Complain about 17-18 handling errors, complain about a turnstile in defence in Percival, complain about our forwards being woeful, complain about our players looking undercooked and out of form, complain about our halves being on the bus for the whole game but don’t go and blame the referee.
    Well this thread will be interesting...

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    It's the right thing to do. At the end of the day Hicks made a huge blunder very early on that could have changed the course of the game and ruined wires gameplan and confidence.

    The club dont do it often, itll hopefully see the games at the end of the season officiated properly. There is so much determination to keep a penalty count low in a final that things like offside etc are completely ignored. It cant be that way if it impacts the game. Fair play to the club

    It doesnt detract from the fact we played poorly but there is no two ways about it, hicks impacted upon that game with his egotistical call not to use the technology available to him.

    Added to that what the hell is with him being interviewed on TV in the lead up to the final about an incident with a club in the final and still getting the game? I really dont believe that is the right thing for the refs department to allow. Doesnt sit well with me at all

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    So, we’ve made an official complaint to the RFL about Robert Hicks’ performance. Now, Hicks was horrendous, don’t get me wrong but when your having a game refereed by him, you need to understand that you’re going to be on the end of some bad decisions, it goes with the territory and while he did make some truly awful decisions for both sides, to complain post match about it is embarrassing and stinks of sour grapes.

    Complain about 17-18 handling errors, complain about a turnstile in defence in Percival, complain about our forwards being woeful, complain about our players looking undercooked and out of form, complain about our halves being on the bus for the whole game but don’t go and blame the referee.
    Why not complain ? the ref's are professional and should be held to account,they have aids to help them make the right calls. If it stops big games being reffed in a different way just because it's a cup final then again why not ? Would it of made a difference ? maybe but we shall never know. Yes we made errors,yes we were poor at times. But should that excuse the ref from being poor and making the right calls ?

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    If it is a Wane like move to lay a marker down for remain games then fine (and quite smart).

    If it part of avoiding self refection and playing into this "so proud of the effort" ,
    "we were realy close" narrative ,then a bit chidlish.

    All depends on the motivation to do it.

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    We’ve not made a complaint- we’ve asked for an explanation

    It’s hard on the players. They ran harder, made more metres, tackled better, bust more tackles, made more clean breaks etc but they still lost the game. The ref and his colleagues were solely account for an 18 point swing in the game

    I think everyone wants answers about the Knowles try so I’m glad we’ve asked the question

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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    We’ve not made a complaint- we’ve asked for an explanation

    It’s hard on the players. They ran harder, made more metres, tackled better, bust more tackles, made more clean breaks etc but they still lost the game. The ref and his colleagues were solely account for an 18 point swing in the game

    I think everyone wants answers about the Knowles try so I’m glad we’ve asked the question
    100% spot on mate.

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    I don't mind us asking some questions but don't think it should be public, just puts refs under more pressure and invites others to have a go also
    He made a bad error, he will feel very bad about it, embarrassed and will no doubt question himself, what explanation do we expect? I don't recal the players asking the question or celebrating it, nobody there knew it was even a chance, it was all a bit odd.
    im sure it would have made a difference but no guarantee of success for us and the remaining 77 minutes saw warrington do a job on us

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    I don't mind us asking some questions but don't think it should be public, just puts refs under more pressure and invites others to have a go also
    He made a bad error, he will feel very bad about it, embarrassed and will no doubt question himself, what explanation do we expect? I don't recal the players asking the question or celebrating it, nobody there knew it was even a chance, it was all a bit odd.
    im sure it would have made a difference but no guarantee of success for us and the remaining 77 minutes saw warrington do a job on us
    He made several equally glaring errors following the Morgan Knowles one. At some point you have to expect him as a professional referee to accept some culpability. He's not a part timer doing amateur games for £25.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_Claire View Post
    He made several equally glaring errors following the Morgan Knowles one. At some point you have to expect him as a professional referee to accept some culpability. He's not a part timer doing amateur games for £25.
    What culpability do you want?

    A ban?

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    It was an appalling decision, but then so was the disallowed Wire try from dummy half that was presumably done in a failed attempt to even up the crap decisions. The problem is that it doesn't work like that and in the ebb and flow of the game the first poor decision left you at an enormous disadvantage while the second barely had an impact on Wire as they were allready well in front.

    For the record, I doubt many of you would complain if you got a similar decision in your favour from Hicks in the GF vs Wigan, but there is as much chance of Bury winning the Champions League as there is of Hicks reffing the GF after that cock up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    So, we’ve made an official complaint to the RFL about Robert Hicks’ performance. Now, Hicks was horrendous, don’t get me wrong but when your having a game refereed by him, you need to understand that you’re going to be on the end of some bad decisions, it goes with the territory and while he did make some truly awful decisions for both sides, to complain post match about it is embarrassing and stinks of sour grapes.

    Complain about 17-18 handling errors, complain about a turnstile in defence in Percival, complain about our forwards being woeful, complain about our players looking undercooked and out of form, complain about our halves being on the bus for the whole game but don’t go and blame the referee.

    Name 2 tough calls against Warrington. I’ll swap theirs for ours.

    Some Dros on here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by knowsleyroaders View Post
    Name 2 tough calls against Warrington. I’ll swap theirs for ours.

    Some Dros on here.
    Lineham should have had a try. Let’s not forget how bad he was for both teams.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    Lineham should have had a try. LetÂ’s not forget how bad he was for both teams.
    I think you’re still angry from Saturday.

    It isn’t embarrassing to ask questions about refereeing decisions and, in particular, the terrible decision about the Knowles try. I’ve previously queried what going to Ganson or the RFL might achieve (“Knowles No Try?” thread) but, on reflection, we need to make refs think twice about thinking they can ride roughshod over us in future. Others have explained it better above. It’s also unusual for the club to complain about anything. The powers that be aren’t serial whingers.

    The trouble with trying to get better decisions is that a more carefully thought out decision might go against us in an important game over the coming weeks. However, there isn’t any excuse for rushed/poor decisions in big games.

    Don’t think I’m not worried about the team or the season. My own concern it that we have a team that seem to panic and overplaying in big games. I think losing big games is psychologically damaging and I don’t know what it will take to get the team’s corporate mindset right. Losing on Saturday has led me to depressed about the looming playoffs and GF. All I can hope is that my pessimism is misplaced and that he optimists are right. I’ve said on another thread that I’d love to read all this back and laugh about it after a GF victory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    Lineham should have had a try. Let’s not forget how bad he was for both teams.
    Correct, Hicks and his buddy Bargain Basement Ben simply "evening things up" when it didn't matter a jot.

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    What is embarrassing is a sport where finals are refereed differently from the rest of the season. The ruck and 10m were a joke on Saturday. Not the (only) reason for the loss but played a part.

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    Yes, that was very true. Hicks looked like a ref more concerned with creating a 'quick, fast flowing final' rather than awarding penalties that he would every over week. Both teams suffered as a result of this though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    Lineham should have had a try. Let’s not forget how bad he was for both teams.
    That was only because he knew he had completely ****ed up for Knowles' try. Now you can try and say that evens it up, but it doesn't. The mental impact of that first refused try sets the stage for the game, puts us on the back foot and gives Wire a big lift. Downplay it all you want but EVERY poor decision has an impact on a game and the combination of them in a short space of time deflated us and boosted Wire massively. By the time we got to the Lineham refused try the damage was done and they were in a mental position that they could shrug it off far more easily.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    So, we’ve made an official complaint to the RFL about Robert Hicks’ performance. Now, Hicks was horrendous, don’t get me wrong but when your having a game refereed by him, you need to understand that you’re going to be on the end of some bad decisions, it goes with the territory and while he did make some truly awful decisions for both sides, to complain post match about it is embarrassing and stinks of sour grapes.

    Complain about 17-18 handling errors, complain about a turnstile in defence in Percival, complain about our forwards being woeful, complain about our players looking undercooked and out of form, complain about our halves being on the bus for the whole game but don’t go and blame the referee.
    If it was a normal game we take it on the chin, as it was a Cup Final and wearing our Saints Specs there were 4 tries allowed/disallowed as a result of bad calls 3 to 1 in Warrington's favour when the RFL review the match. As already mentioned Hicks should be held to account for the sake of ensuring the game is officiated with parity, did his meeting at the Warrington Wolves effect his judgement, you would say professionally NO but we can't be 100% sure of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    If it was a normal game we take it on the chin, as it was a Cup Final and wearing our Saints Specs there were 4 tries allowed/disallowed as a result of bad calls 3 to 1 in Warrington's favour when the RFL review the match. As already mentioned Hicks should be held to account for the sake of ensuring the game is officiated with parity, did his meeting at the Warrington Wolves effect his judgement, you would say professionally NO but we can't be 100% sure of that.
    Would we have said this if we’d have managed to win this despite the poor decisions? Never.

    It’s McManus with a dig at the RFL and nothing more.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    If it was a normal game we take it on the chin, as it was a Cup Final and wearing our Saints Specs there were 4 tries allowed/disallowed as a result of bad calls 3 to 1 in Warrington's favour when the RFL review the match. As already mentioned Hicks should be held to account for the sake of ensuring the game is officiated with parity, did his meeting at the Warrington Wolves effect his judgement, you would say professionally NO but we can't be 100% sure of that.
    What was the score when he disallowed the wire try . the penalty count was well in their favour till they were 12-0 then he started to penaise them to balance the books .

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    It is always said that dubious penalties and rough calls even themselves out over a season - the problem is that if you get them in a knockout game there is no evening up, there is no opportunity to get your fair shout.

    If a referee isn't taken to task for the type of game changing errors he made then what hope do we have as a sport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by st. etrigan View Post
    It is always said that dubious penalties and rough calls even themselves out over a season - the problem is that if you get them in a knockout game there is no evening up, there is no opportunity to get your fair shout.

    If a referee isn't taken to task for the type of game changing errors he made then what hope do we have as a sport.
    I think the majoritynagree with that but what form does 'taking to task' take?

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    I think Saints have done the right thing asking for answers and we will never find out what the RFL says as they probably dont know what to say. They are not going to say Hicks was wrong by not going to the video ref.

    I knew in the first few mins Hicks was not going to be giving offsides or slowing the play down penalties, which suited Warrington and although I always like to think refs are human and do make mistakes, I really can’t think of a reason why he didn’t use the technology available to have a look at the knowles no try. It’s a cup final being watched by millions of people so surely a decent ref would send it upstairs.

    Hopefully by complaining we might not see Hicks officiating any of our remaining games this season

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    So, we’ve made an official complaint to the RFL about Robert Hicks’ performance. Now, Hicks was horrendous, don’t get me wrong but when your having a game refereed by him, you need to understand that you’re going to be on the end of some bad decisions, it goes with the territory and while he did make some truly awful decisions for both sides, to complain post match about it is embarrassing and stinks of sour grapes.

    Complain about 17-18 handling errors, complain about a turnstile in defence in Percival, complain about our forwards being woeful, complain about our players looking undercooked and out of form, complain about our halves being on the bus for the whole game but don’t go and blame the referee.

    This.
    The problems are in our own backyard of our own making.

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