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Thread: Justin Holbrook to blame

  1. #26
    In The South Stand retro74's Avatar
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    In we had to do a lot more tackling 453 to their 336

    We made about 240 metres more than them from about the same amount of carries - 1684 vs 1445

    We missed 34 tackles they missed 51

    We made 10 clean breaks they made 4

    We offloaded 16 times to their 6

    The big one was errors - 18 for us and just 5 by Wire (which is excellent)

    Set completion was 63% us and 85% Wire

    Tackle success was 93% us and 87% Wire

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    In The South Stand Tez the Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    In we had to do a lot more tackling 453 to their 336

    We made about 240 metres more than them from about the same amount of carries - 1684 vs 1445

    We missed 34 tackles they missed 51

    We made 10 clean breaks they made 4

    We offloaded 16 times to their 6

    The big one was errors - 18 for us and just 5 by Wire (which is excellent)

    Set completion was 63% us and 85% Wire

    Tackle success was 93% us and 87% Wire
    Thanks for posting those. Think the game is summed up in the defensive stats really. The fact that we were still in a position to win the game late in the second-half and created a few opportunities to do so given the amount of defending we ended up doing is a fair effort really. I do think we can take positives from that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven View Post
    I have been a life long Saints fan, but must confess that the loss at Wembley is my lowest moment. I do believe that the blame lays firmly and squarely with Justin Holbrook.
    All the so called experts who write in newspapers and speak on Television predicted a massive Saints win. Yet before the match when I saw the team selection I sensed a loss was coming. We thought that we only had to turn up to win, especially with The Wires not having the mercurial Blake Austin.
    We fielded a side with 4 players that were not match fit. Danny Richardson, who must be totally disillusioned with the way he has been treated at Saints should have played at 7, with Fage at 6, and Lomax at full back. Richardson has been passed from pillar to post lately but his form had been excellent.
    I am at a loss to understand why last season nobody was rested at all and the players were "burned out" come the business end of the season. This season too many players have been rested at once, with the result that there is no consistancy of team selection, players out of position constantly, with no momentum of a regular team selction in the build up to the Challenge cup final. We "threw" the 2 matches at London which should have been won, in the mistaken belief that the full first team "stars" could come together and play as a team, which they did not.
    People will say, well we have won the league leaders shield for 2 consecutive seasons, and that is a remakable achievement, but the matches for which we are remembered are winning the Challenge Cup and Super League Trophy.
    I know that a lot of people will disagree and say that Justin Holbrook has been a wonderful coach at Saints, but the only semi-final that we have won is against Halifax and that was a dismal performance.
    I wish Justin Holbrook al the best in his new venture at the Gold Coast Titans, but also believe that if we are to win Trophies that matter then we need a new coach.
    We've lost 17 semi finals in the last 12yrs. Has Holbrook been here for all of them??

    This problem is club wide, not just coach related.

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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    In we had to do a lot more tackling 453 to their 336

    We made about 240 metres more than them from about the same amount of carries - 1684 vs 1445

    We missed 34 tackles they missed 51

    We made 10 clean breaks they made 4

    We offloaded 16 times to their 6

    The big one was errors - 18 for us and just 5 by Wire (which is excellent)

    Set completion was 63% us and 85% Wire

    Tackle success was 93% us and 87% Wire
    Would love to know how many breaks were in our half vs how many in Wire’s half. All ours seemed to come from deep on kick returns.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    Learning All The Songs Gerry Mander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by newport dave View Post
    We've lost 17 semi finals in the last 12yrs. Has Holbrook been here for all of them??

    This problem is club wide, not just coach related.

    Sent from my BLA-L09 using Tapatalk
    It's a good point.

    However Holbrook is one of the one coach who has had a side ,
    that has swept all before it only to impode at the big moments.

    Other coaches have had not had the quality of squad in tems of depth and pace/matchwinners.

    He can't take the rap for 12 years but the microsope
    is focusing on him and rightly so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mander View Post
    It's a good point.

    However Holbrook is one of the one coach who has had a side ,
    that has swept all before it only to impode at the big moments.

    Other coaches have had not had the quality of squad in tems of depth and pace/matchwinners.

    He can't take the rap for 12 years but the microsope
    is focusing on him and rightly so.
    He can take the rap to a pretty large extent.

    This is a man whose side(s) have swept the floor with absolutely everyone pretty much since the second he landed in this country only for his teams to then, as you say, implode on the big stages in pretty similar fashion each time.

    His job description would have included the winning of trophies and we’re potentially two games, maybe even one from his time here being deemed a failure. It seems that he has not been able to work out why his sides freeze on a big stage and how to adapt to it and it shows the team as a whole hasn’t learnt anything from the multiple failures they’ve suffered as a team group.

    We’ve had poorer sides win trophies and we’ve had poorer sides that have got close to a final but this is the best Saints side for approx. 10-15 years that has failed to deliver.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    He can take the rap to a pretty large extent.

    This is a man whose side(s) have swept the floor with absolutely everyone pretty much since the second he landed in this country only for his teams to then, as you say, implode on the big stages in pretty similar fashion each time.

    His job description would have included the winning of trophies and were potentially two games, maybe even one from his time here being deemed a failure. It seems that he has not been able to work out why his sides freeze on a big stage and how to adapt to it and it shows the team as a whole hasnt learnt anything from the multiple failures theyve suffered as a team group.

    Weve had poorer sides win trophies and weve had poorer sides that have got close to a final but this is the best Saints side for approx. 10-15 years that has failed to deliver.
    Im not buying that. The only game that we imploded was the Catalans semi. Against Cas the year before we were one stupid Morgan penalty from making the grand final. Against Wire last year we were one missed tackle away from another grand final. Saturday we had a few harsh calls go against us but we hardly imploded in my opinion. I agree that if he doesnt win the grand final his time may seem like a failure even though hes turned the whole club around from the previous rubbish served up under Cunningham.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parky151277 View Post
    I’m not buying that. The only game that we imploded was the Catalans semi. Against Cas the year before we were one stupid Morgan penalty from making the grand final. Against Wire last year we were one missed tackle away from another grand final. Saturday we had a few harsh calls go against us but we hardly imploded in my opinion. I agree that if he doesn’t win the grand final his time may seem like a failure even though he’s turned the whole club around from the previous rubbish served up under Cunningham.
    The Cas game was the closest we’ve been in under Holbrook but even then was littered with errors. The Catalans game was error strewn and our forwards never got out of bed and the Warrington game was pretty similar adding in we looked unlikely to score in that second half, much like we didn’t on Saturday.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    Starting A Programme Collection newport dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mander View Post
    It's a good point.

    However Holbrook is one of the one coach who has had a side ,
    that has swept all before it only to impode at the big moments.

    Other coaches have had not had the quality of squad in tems of depth and pace/matchwinners.

    He can't take the rap for 12 years but the microsope
    is focusing on him and rightly so.
    Agree, but with that record there as to be an ongoing underlying problem.

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    In The South Stand retro74's Avatar
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    We always make quite a few errors, we’ve been more expansive these past couple of years

    I think we usually make between 10 and 16 errors per game so Saturday was higher than usual. However I don’t think we’ve ever been as low as 5 (which was Wires number)

    They didn’t play any rugby at all, their game plan was, dare I say it - Cunningham-esque

    It worked on this occasion but needed a lot of help from Hicks and Thaler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven View Post
    What I am refering to is my lowest moment of watching our Saints team since 1966. lowest meaning.. most disappointing. I thought that would be obvious.

    1987, 1989, each were more disappointing

  12. #37
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    Murrayfield for me was a lot more disappointing than this one. I remember being furious walking out of the ground because we were so poor

    This one was frustrating but I thought the players tried their hardest for the most part

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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    We always make quite a few errors, we’ve been more expansive these past couple of years

    I think we usually make between 10 and 16 errors per game so Saturday was higher than usual. However I don’t think we’ve ever been as low as 5 (which was Wires number)

    They didn’t play any rugby at all, their game plan was, dare I say it - Cunningham-esque

    It worked on this occasion but needed a lot of help from Hicks and Thaler
    Yep, simple game plan executed perfectly, low risk attacking and effort in defence with a good kicking game, nothing flash

    We tried hard and didn't have an answer to their defence, tried harder as the game went on and came up with errors, fair play to warrington

    Not Holbrooks fault at all, he did what many of us expected and thought was the right thing prior to the game
    We blamed him for not resting players last year, this year we blame him for the being undercooked

    Let's keep our composure, feel sorry for ourselves for a couple of days and then get back to it, we cannot afford to let it bother us for to long.
    Let warrington enjoy the win they deserved and if we can use anything to help our motivation then it's only going to help

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