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  1. #1
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    Default Just need to have my say

    I have now calmed down and sobered up and I now need somewhere to put down my thoughts that may turn into a rant...who knows

    So where better than here.

    I haven't read any more comments and more than happy for you to ignore this, but I have to get it off my chest as I am fed up with the rubbish being spouted on Facebook, twitter and other social media blaming individuals.

    First things first, congratulations to Warrington, they beat us with a better attitude
    and a better game plan, they were prepared to do whatever it takes to beat us and so many times
    Saints were almost through and the 1% ers from Warrington meant that they just managed to hold on to the player. they deserve the win.

    The following should be seen as observations and not excuses I am accepting the defeat no matter how much it hurts and I never realised London was so far away till this last coach ride home. Even further than the last ride home that took a similar time after the 27 - 0 defeat

    The referee team made some bewildering calls.
    The Morgan Knowles try - what could Hicks have seen that made him so certain - when after replays it clearly shows that he got the ball down
    The Percival try - the call was that Tiai had no control of the ball yet he took 2 steps with the ball clearly held in his hand before Murdoch-Masilla ripped it from him.
    Even given that he did lose control the first knock on came from a Warrington player into Tiai's hands, I do despair that a professional referee cannot see this when he is just looking at a video screen. On the field it is much harder, but really come on Thaler - how can you get it so wrong.
    The Regan Grace knock on to wipe the tackle count down - it clearly comes of Kings shoulder first so that is the knock-on. Again its a live call but I am expecting refs to get this right.

    But for me the next part is crucial - it didn't come across on the TV and I don't know if it was noticeable sat on the ends, but where I was sat - 3rd tier just behind the royal seats, between the 40 and half way - it was very clear that:

    Firstly the ref changed the way he kept the teams back, for St Helens it was always 12m for Warrington it was somewhere between 10 and 12 m depending on where in the set he was, the first 2 or 3 play the balls were always 10m.

    But secondly the way that both teams treated where they went, Saints were pretty much always with the ref, forming a great line (not always but mostly) but Warrington were not bothered where the ref was they were up to 3 m offside no matter if the ref was at 10 or 12m.
    The ref should have penalised this to stop it happening, but him and his touch-judges just ignored it, which meant that Saints never had time and space to work in.
    But this brings me to the main point of this part
    Saints seem incapable of overcoming this type of scenario, each time over the last few years when faced with a defence that isn't kept back 10 there is nobody who takes control of the situation and starts to make them think with chips, kicks through - lets come up with a strategy to deal with this Saints. It happens far too often to ignore it.

    I have seen that Saints have lost 17 finals and semi finals in the last 12 years (we have also won 7 in that time) but why is this?
    The problem I can see is that in that time we have mainly gone with rookie type coaches, who are just learning their trade, this is really working at the week to week level where it is all about the process, squad rotation and making sure we win way more than we lose.
    But when it comes to finals they don't have the experience to see how they need to change how they work in the weeks coming up to it.

    This is clearly shown in Justin Holbrook's time here he is fantastic at getting the team working through the season, but is naïve in his approach to finals, last year the enthusiasm of both Catalan and Warrington, combined with bad games by Saints meant we didn't reach a final.
    This year in the CC Semi we were very lucky to meet a team who were a whole division below us, even then their enthusiasm and willingness to play for each other made it hard for us.
    Yesterday we saw exactly the same scenario, he will learn what do, but he only has 4 games or 6 weeks now to get this right at Saints - can he do it?

    Resting players for the sake of it is great throughout the season, but RL is a game of tough men who need to be at their physical and mental peak in the big games, he should never have rested players in the weeks before the final, they should have been playing to maintain both their game fitness and the combinations with the other players. That is a tough lesson for us all to take, the fact we were 14 and 16 points clear meant we could rest and not worry about the result. But what it did mean is that (unless the player was genuinely hurt - in that case he shouldn't have played at Wembley) we had the opportunity to take risks such as making sure the 4 players were back up to speed in the preceding games by playing them for 40 or 29 mins and asking other players to play longer minutes.
    We do not need to rest anyone who can play - hopefully they will get 2 weeks rest before the Grand Final

    So how do we break this cycle, well it may be too late now, but we have the players, the structure, the ability, what we now need is a proven coach who can take us to that next level. The only other alternative is making sure that any new coach is tied up to 4 years (but that is a gamble in itself) so he can learn here and get us to change - even if it is the hard way by loosing another Final (God I hope not)

    If you are still here then thanks for reading - lets get to Old Trafford and have a different mental attitude, that at the end of the day separates winners from losers.

  2. #2
    In The West Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by st. etrigan View Post
    I have now calmed down and sobered up and I now need somewhere to put down my thoughts that may turn into a rant...who knows

    So where better than here.

    I haven't read any more comments and more than happy for you to ignore this, but I have to get it off my chest as I am fed up with the rubbish being spouted on Facebook, twitter and other social media blaming individuals.

    First things first, congratulations to Warrington, they beat us with a better attitude
    and a better game plan, they were prepared to do whatever it takes to beat us and so many times
    Saints were almost through and the 1% ers from Warrington meant that they just managed to hold on to the player. they deserve the win.

    The following should be seen as observations and not excuses I am accepting the defeat no matter how much it hurts and I never realised London was so far away till this last coach ride home. Even further than the last ride home that took a similar time after the 27 - 0 defeat

    The referee team made some bewildering calls.
    The Morgan Knowles try - what could Hicks have seen that made him so certain - when after replays it clearly shows that he got the ball down
    The Percival try - the call was that Tiai had no control of the ball yet he took 2 steps with the ball clearly held in his hand before Murdoch-Masilla ripped it from him.
    Even given that he did lose control the first knock on came from a Warrington player into Tiai's hands, I do despair that a professional referee cannot see this when he is just looking at a video screen. On the field it is much harder, but really come on Thaler - how can you get it so wrong.
    The Regan Grace knock on to wipe the tackle count down - it clearly comes of Kings shoulder first so that is the knock-on. Again its a live call but I am expecting refs to get this right.

    But for me the next part is crucial - it didn't come across on the TV and I don't know if it was noticeable sat on the ends, but where I was sat - 3rd tier just behind the royal seats, between the 40 and half way - it was very clear that:

    Firstly the ref changed the way he kept the teams back, for St Helens it was always 12m for Warrington it was somewhere between 10 and 12 m depending on where in the set he was, the first 2 or 3 play the balls were always 10m.

    But secondly the way that both teams treated where they went, Saints were pretty much always with the ref, forming a great line (not always but mostly) but Warrington were not bothered where the ref was they were up to 3 m offside no matter if the ref was at 10 or 12m.
    The ref should have penalised this to stop it happening, but him and his touch-judges just ignored it, which meant that Saints never had time and space to work in.
    But this brings me to the main point of this part
    Saints seem incapable of overcoming this type of scenario, each time over the last few years when faced with a defence that isn't kept back 10 there is nobody who takes control of the situation and starts to make them think with chips, kicks through - lets come up with a strategy to deal with this Saints. It happens far too often to ignore it.

    I have seen that Saints have lost 17 finals and semi finals in the last 12 years (we have also won 7 in that time) but why is this?
    The problem I can see is that in that time we have mainly gone with rookie type coaches, who are just learning their trade, this is really working at the week to week level where it is all about the process, squad rotation and making sure we win way more than we lose.
    But when it comes to finals they don't have the experience to see how they need to change how they work in the weeks coming up to it.

    This is clearly shown in Justin Holbrook's time here he is fantastic at getting the team working through the season, but is naïve in his approach to finals, last year the enthusiasm of both Catalan and Warrington, combined with bad games by Saints meant we didn't reach a final.
    This year in the CC Semi we were very lucky to meet a team who were a whole division below us, even then their enthusiasm and willingness to play for each other made it hard for us.
    Yesterday we saw exactly the same scenario, he will learn what do, but he only has 4 games or 6 weeks now to get this right at Saints - can he do it?

    Resting players for the sake of it is great throughout the season, but RL is a game of tough men who need to be at their physical and mental peak in the big games, he should never have rested players in the weeks before the final, they should have been playing to maintain both their game fitness and the combinations with the other players. That is a tough lesson for us all to take, the fact we were 14 and 16 points clear meant we could rest and not worry about the result. But what it did mean is that (unless the player was genuinely hurt - in that case he shouldn't have played at Wembley) we had the opportunity to take risks such as making sure the 4 players were back up to speed in the preceding games by playing them for 40 or 29 mins and asking other players to play longer minutes.
    We do not need to rest anyone who can play - hopefully they will get 2 weeks rest before the Grand Final

    So how do we break this cycle, well it may be too late now, but we have the players, the structure, the ability, what we now need is a proven coach who can take us to that next level. The only other alternative is making sure that any new coach is tied up to 4 years (but that is a gamble in itself) so he can learn here and get us to change - even if it is the hard way by loosing another Final (God I hope not)

    If you are still here then thanks for reading - lets get to Old Trafford and have a different mental attitude, that at the end of the day separates winners from losers.
    Some great points there. Clearly thought that through. My hangover is getting worse by the minute. San Miguel will not be touched for a considerable amount of time.

    For me we don't have that 'edge to get us over the line. We aren't ruthless enough

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Some great points there. Clearly thought that through. My hangover is getting worse by the minute. San Miguel will not be touched for a considerable amount of time.

    For me we don't have that 'edge to get us over the line. We aren't ruthless enough
    I feel your pain brother, this heat isn't helping either. I'm only glad I had the foresight to change my flight to tomorrow morning as I can't think of much worse than being in a busy airport right now with screaming kids/scousers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    I feel your pain brother, this heat isn't helping either. I'm only glad I had the foresight to change my flight to tomorrow morning as I can't think of much worse than being in a busy airport right now with screaming kids/scousers.
    Think that's a wise move.

    Had a decent day yesterday. Just a pity about the 80 minutes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Think that's a wise move.

    Had a decent day yesterday. Just a pity about the 80 minutes
    Fair play. Yesterday until the game was awful. I was pacing up and down from the moment I woke up. In fact my whole week has been crap until this afternoon.

    Had a nightmare on the Ebor meeting.
    Been busy sorting work stuff so no fishing, golf or gym.
    Everton.
    Saints.
    Hangover.

    Haha, sod it. I'll be glad to get back to work next week.

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    What this team lacks & has done for some time is an enforcer in the pack. Someone to put the fear of god into the opposition when its needed by fair means or using the dark arts !
    We need a Fozzard ,Nickle , Foggarty etc.
    A bit of spine & backbone with enough guile to win a war of attrition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    I feel your pain brother, this heat isn't helping either. I'm only glad I had the foresight to change my flight to tomorrow morning as I can't think of much worse than being in a busy airport right now with screaming kids/scousers.
    It could be with you. I was going to say you are a big kid but that’s an insult to a kid. T��sser.

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    Have to agree with almost all the OP.

    Couple of things crossed my mind.

    Are we too nice - particularly Roby as captain ?. Just imagine a Wigan side with Ratboy as captain having the Knowles try decision - there would be 6 players surrounding the ref demanding a screen decision.

    My other thought is squad rotation - the lack of rotation killed us last year come the playoffs. But now we went too far the other way going into a final with 1/3 of the team undercooked. Holbrook's only failing in 2 years is his inability to get this right

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    He kept the game flowing, they often don't blow for offside if the players are not involved in the play

    I don't be,ieve he made us go two metres further back than them

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    More excuses
    Quote Originally Posted by st. etrigan View Post
    I have now calmed down and sobered up and I now need somewhere to put down my thoughts that may turn into a rant...who knows

    So where better than here.

    I haven't read any more comments and more than happy for you to ignore this, but I have to get it off my chest as I am fed up with the rubbish being spouted on Facebook, twitter and other social media blaming individuals.

    First things first, congratulations to Warrington, they beat us with a better attitude
    and a better game plan, they were prepared to do whatever it takes to beat us and so many times
    Saints were almost through and the 1% ers from Warrington meant that they just managed to hold on to the player. they deserve the win.

    The following should be seen as observations and not excuses I am accepting the defeat no matter how much it hurts and I never realised London was so far away till this last coach ride home. Even further than the last ride home that took a similar time after the 27 - 0 defeat

    The referee team made some bewildering calls.
    The Morgan Knowles try - what could Hicks have seen that made him so certain - when after replays it clearly shows that he got the ball down
    The Percival try - the call was that Tiai had no control of the ball yet he took 2 steps with the ball clearly held in his hand before Murdoch-Masilla ripped it from him.
    Even given that he did lose control the first knock on came from a Warrington player into Tiai's hands, I do despair that a professional referee cannot see this when he is just looking at a video screen. On the field it is much harder, but really come on Thaler - how can you get it so wrong.
    The Regan Grace knock on to wipe the tackle count down - it clearly comes of Kings shoulder first so that is the knock-on. Again its a live call but I am expecting refs to get this right.

    But for me the next part is crucial - it didn't come across on the TV and I don't know if it was noticeable sat on the ends, but where I was sat - 3rd tier just behind the royal seats, between the 40 and half way - it was very clear that:

    Firstly the ref changed the way he kept the teams back, for St Helens it was always 12m for Warrington it was somewhere between 10 and 12 m depending on where in the set he was, the first 2 or 3 play the balls were always 10m.

    But secondly the way that both teams treated where they went, Saints were pretty much always with the ref, forming a great line (not always but mostly) but Warrington were not bothered where the ref was they were up to 3 m offside no matter if the ref was at 10 or 12m.
    The ref should have penalised this to stop it happening, but him and his touch-judges just ignored it, which meant that Saints never had time and space to work in.
    But this brings me to the main point of this part
    Saints seem incapable of overcoming this type of scenario, each time over the last few years when faced with a defence that isn't kept back 10 there is nobody who takes control of the situation and starts to make them think with chips, kicks through - lets come up with a strategy to deal with this Saints. It happens far too often to ignore it.

    I have seen that Saints have lost 17 finals and semi finals in the last 12 years (we have also won 7 in that time) but why is this?
    The problem I can see is that in that time we have mainly gone with rookie type coaches, who are just learning their trade, this is really working at the week to week level where it is all about the process, squad rotation and making sure we win way more than we lose.
    But when it comes to finals they don't have the experience to see how they need to change how they work in the weeks coming up to it.

    This is clearly shown in Justin Holbrook's time here he is fantastic at getting the team working through the season, but is naïve in his approach to finals, last year the enthusiasm of both Catalan and Warrington, combined with bad games by Saints meant we didn't reach a final.
    This year in the CC Semi we were very lucky to meet a team who were a whole division below us, even then their enthusiasm and willingness to play for each other made it hard for us.
    Yesterday we saw exactly the same scenario, he will learn what do, but he only has 4 games or 6 weeks now to get this right at Saints - can he do it?

    Resting players for the sake of it is great throughout the season, but RL is a game of tough men who need to be at their physical and mental peak in the big games, he should never have rested players in the weeks before the final, they should have been playing to maintain both their game fitness and the combinations with the other players. That is a tough lesson for us all to take, the fact we were 14 and 16 points clear meant we could rest and not worry about the result. But what it did mean is that (unless the player was genuinely hurt - in that case he shouldn't have played at Wembley) we had the opportunity to take risks such as making sure the 4 players were back up to speed in the preceding games by playing them for 40 or 29 mins and asking other players to play longer minutes.
    We do not need to rest anyone who can play - hopefully they will get 2 weeks rest before the Grand Final

    So how do we break this cycle, well it may be too late now, but we have the players, the structure, the ability, what we now need is a proven coach who can take us to that next level. The only other alternative is making sure that any new coach is tied up to 4 years (but that is a gamble in itself) so he can learn here and get us to change - even if it is the hard way by loosing another Final (God I hope not)

    If you are still here then thanks for reading - lets get to Old Trafford and have a different mental attitude, that at the end of the day separates winners from losers.
    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by st. etrigan View Post
    I have now calmed down and sobered up and I now need somewhere to put down my thoughts that may turn into a rant...who knows

    So where better than here.

    I haven't read any more comments and more than happy for you to ignore this, but I have to get it off my chest as I am fed up with the rubbish being spouted on Facebook, twitter and other social media blaming individuals.

    First things first, congratulations to Warrington, they beat us with a better attitude
    and a better game plan, they were prepared to do whatever it takes to beat us and so many times
    Saints were almost through and the 1% ers from Warrington meant that they just managed to hold on to the player. they deserve the win.

    The following should be seen as observations and not excuses I am accepting the defeat no matter how much it hurts and I never realised London was so far away till this last coach ride home. Even further than the last ride home that took a similar time after the 27 - 0 defeat

    The referee team made some bewildering calls.
    The Morgan Knowles try - what could Hicks have seen that made him so certain - when after replays it clearly shows that he got the ball down
    The Percival try - the call was that Tiai had no control of the ball yet he took 2 steps with the ball clearly held in his hand before Murdoch-Masilla ripped it from him.
    Even given that he did lose control the first knock on came from a Warrington player into Tiai's hands, I do despair that a professional referee cannot see this when he is just looking at a video screen. On the field it is much harder, but really come on Thaler - how can you get it so wrong.
    The Regan Grace knock on to wipe the tackle count down - it clearly comes of Kings shoulder first so that is the knock-on. Again its a live call but I am expecting refs to get this right.

    But for me the next part is crucial - it didn't come across on the TV and I don't know if it was noticeable sat on the ends, but where I was sat - 3rd tier just behind the royal seats, between the 40 and half way - it was very clear that:

    Firstly the ref changed the way he kept the teams back, for St Helens it was always 12m for Warrington it was somewhere between 10 and 12 m depending on where in the set he was, the first 2 or 3 play the balls were always 10m.

    But secondly the way that both teams treated where they went, Saints were pretty much always with the ref, forming a great line (not always but mostly) but Warrington were not bothered where the ref was they were up to 3 m offside no matter if the ref was at 10 or 12m.
    The ref should have penalised this to stop it happening, but him and his touch-judges just ignored it, which meant that Saints never had time and space to work in.
    But this brings me to the main point of this part
    Saints seem incapable of overcoming this type of scenario, each time over the last few years when faced with a defence that isn't kept back 10 there is nobody who takes control of the situation and starts to make them think with chips, kicks through - lets come up with a strategy to deal with this Saints. It happens far too often to ignore it.

    I have seen that Saints have lost 17 finals and semi finals in the last 12 years (we have also won 7 in that time) but why is this?
    The problem I can see is that in that time we have mainly gone with rookie type coaches, who are just learning their trade, this is really working at the week to week level where it is all about the process, squad rotation and making sure we win way more than we lose.
    But when it comes to finals they don't have the experience to see how they need to change how they work in the weeks coming up to it.

    This is clearly shown in Justin Holbrook's time here he is fantastic at getting the team working through the season, but is naïve in his approach to finals, last year the enthusiasm of both Catalan and Warrington, combined with bad games by Saints meant we didn't reach a final.
    This year in the CC Semi we were very lucky to meet a team who were a whole division below us, even then their enthusiasm and willingness to play for each other made it hard for us.
    Yesterday we saw exactly the same scenario, he will learn what do, but he only has 4 games or 6 weeks now to get this right at Saints - can he do it?

    Resting players for the sake of it is great throughout the season, but RL is a game of tough men who need to be at their physical and mental peak in the big games, he should never have rested players in the weeks before the final, they should have been playing to maintain both their game fitness and the combinations with the other players. That is a tough lesson for us all to take, the fact we were 14 and 16 points clear meant we could rest and not worry about the result. But what it did mean is that (unless the player was genuinely hurt - in that case he shouldn't have played at Wembley) we had the opportunity to take risks such as making sure the 4 players were back up to speed in the preceding games by playing them for 40 or 29 mins and asking other players to play longer minutes.
    We do not need to rest anyone who can play - hopefully they will get 2 weeks rest before the Grand Final

    So how do we break this cycle, well it may be too late now, but we have the players, the structure, the ability, what we now need is a proven coach who can take us to that next level. The only other alternative is making sure that any new coach is tied up to 4 years (but that is a gamble in itself) so he can learn here and get us to change - even if it is the hard way by loosing another Final (God I hope not)

    If you are still here then thanks for reading - lets get to Old Trafford and have a different mental attitude, that at the end of the day separates winners from losers.
    Please don’t blame the ref - we had no clear game plan m

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    [QUOTE=st. etrigan;771660]I have now calmed down and sobered up and I now need somewhere to put down my thoughts that may turn into a rant...who knows

    So where better than here.

    I haven't read any more comments and more than happy for you to ignore this, but I have to get it off my chest as I am fed up with the rubbish being spouted on Facebook, twitter and other social media blaming individuals.

    First things first, congratulations to Warrington, they beat us with a better attitude
    and a better game plan, they were prepared to do whatever it takes to beat us and so many times
    Saints were almost through and the 1% ers from Warrington meant that they just managed to hold on to the player. they deserve the win.

    The following should be seen as observations and not excuses I am accepting the defeat no matter how much it hurts and I never realised London was so far away till this last coach ride home. Even further than the last ride home that took a similar time after the 27 - 0 defeat

    The referee team made some bewildering calls.
    The Morgan Knowles try - what could Hicks have seen that made him so certain - when after replays it clearly shows that he got the ball down
    The Percival try - the call was that Tiai had no control of the ball yet he took 2 steps with the ball clearly held in his hand before Murdoch-Masilla ripped it from him.
    Even given that he did lose control the first knock on came from a Warrington player into Tiai's hands, I do despair that a professional referee cannot see this when he is just looking at a video screen. On the field it is much harder, but really come on Thaler - how can you get it so wrong.
    The Regan Grace knock on to wipe the tackle count down - it clearly comes of Kings shoulder first so that is the knock-on. Again its a live call but I am expecting refs to get this right.

    But for me the next part is crucial - it didn't come across on the TV and I don't know if it was noticeable sat on the ends, but where I was sat - 3rd tier just behind the royal seats, between the 40 and half way - it was very clear that:

    Firstly the ref changed the way he kept the teams back, for St Helens it was always 12m for Warrington it was somewhere between 10 and 12 m depending on where in the set he was, the first 2 or 3 play the balls were always 10m.

    But secondly the way that both teams treated where they went, Saints were pretty much always with the ref, forming a great line (not always but mostly) but Warrington were not bothered where the ref was they were up to 3 m offside no matter if the ref was at 10 or 12m.
    The ref should have penalised this to stop it happening, but him and his touch-judges just ignored it, which meant that Saints never had time and space to work in.
    But this brings me to the main point of this part
    Saints seem incapable of overcoming this type of scenario, each time over the last few years when faced with a defence that isn't kept back 10 there is nobody who takes control of the situation and starts to make them think with chips, kicks through - lets come up with a strategy to deal with this Saints. It happens far too often to ignore it.

    I have seen that Saints have lost 17 finals and semi finals in the last 12 years (we have also won 7 in that time) but why is this?
    The problem I can see is that in that time we have mainly gone with rookie type coaches, who are just learning their trade, this is really working at the week to week level where it is all about the process, squad rotation and making sure we win way more than we lose.
    But when it comes to finals they don't have the experience to see how they need to change how they work in the weeks coming up to it.

    This is clearly shown in Justin Holbrook's time here he is fantastic at getting the team working through the season, but is naïve in his approach to finals, last year the enthusiasm of both Catalan and Warrington, combined with bad games by Saints meant we didn't reach a final.
    This year in the CC Semi we were very lucky to meet a team who were a whole division below us, even then their enthusiasm and willingness to play for each other made it hard for us.
    Yesterday we saw exactly the same scenario, he will learn what do, but he only has 4 games or 6 weeks now to get this right at Saints - can he do it?

    Resting players for the sake of it is great throughout the season, but RL is a game of tough men who need to be at their physical and mental peak in the big games, he should never have rested players in the weeks before the final, they should have been playing to maintain both their game fitness and the combinations with the other players. That is a tough lesson for us all to take, the fact we were 14 and 16 points clear meant we could rest and not worry about the result. But what it did mean is that (unless the player was genuinely hurt - in that case he shouldn't have played at Wembley) we had the opportunity to take risks such as making sure the 4 players were back up to speed in the preceding games by playing them for 40 or 29 mins and asking other players to play longer minutes.
    We do not need to rest anyone who can play - hopefully they will get 2 weeks rest before the Grand Final

    So how do we break this cycle, well it may be too late now, but we have the players, the structure, the ability, what we now need is a proven coach who can take us to that next level. The only other alternative is making sure that any new coach is tied up to 4 years (but that is a gamble in itself) so he can learn here and get us to change - even if it is the hard way by loosing another Final (God I hope not)

    If you are still here then thanks for reading - lets get to Old Trafford and have a different mental attitude, that at the end of the day separates winners from losers.[/QUOTE

    Happy to agree with most of this. Rather than say Hicks took us back 12 instead of their 10 . I would rather say his policing of the 10 metres was very poor the whole game. Certainly a skinny 10 at best. I think only one penalty for offside.
    There will be poor referring decisions that effected WARRINGTON as well as us however its fair to say it that his mistakes against changed to dynamics of the game. Morgan Knowles and Percival tries and Fage being taken off the ball.

    Most of the comments about resting players for the Leeds game and our ability to be more ruthless in finals is spot on.

    It seems that last year the formula worked well with Richardson and Fage on the bench. then Justin started tinkering with 4 forwards on the bench when we play Wigan (we lose a centre) and Wire in the semi play off and we lose.

    We need now to play our best team now for the remaining hopefully 5 games with a strong pool of reserves available to cover any injuries that we may suffer.

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    So many people agree with every word u have said. Explained so well...

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    All the massive introspection and what could have been is totally misplaced. The result was more heavily influenced by the refereeing team than the players.

    Some absolute tosh about Warrington pinning us in our own half for lots of the game. Trying to rewrite what happened based on the final score. We dominated the game early, scored two tries despite the skinny 10 and Warrington could hardly move the ball. Now people are gnashing their teeth and questioning the team but just look at the stats from the game.

    We were better in almost all areas other than errors and a number of the errors credited to us were opposition errors incorrectly awarded. We should question what has gone on as we were unceremoniously shafted in the game and all the happy clapping ‘it’s still a great game’ will just allow disgraces like what we saw perpetuate.
    Last edited by ffs; 28th August 2019 at 00:38.

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    A couple of points following on from a well thought out OP. It is not sour grapes to bemoan extremely questionable officiating against us in big games anyone remember Thaler in that semi against wire a few years back?? It desreves to be questioned.

    Secondly amongst all the ringing of hands and gnashing of teeth the only thing we lack is a player who can think about what is in front of him and try something different (they don't grow on trees I know) it may be we are a bit too structured for that type of player but we need to have the option.

    Wire were a fraction better than us and we played poorly so I don't buy the bottlers reputation it also has nothing to do with the rookie coach argument small fractions decide big games and we need a game breaker or someone to try something different or be allowed to.

    Oh and someone to KEEP US CALM AND STOP PLAYING CATCH UP TOO SOON FFS!!!!!!
    Learned comment from The Don

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    Great read well thought out

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