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Thread: Holbrook

  1. #1
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    Default Holbrook

    I've heard some people say that he should just go now and to be fair there was part of me feeling that way watching us flounder in the heat. He needs to take a huge slice of responsibility for what we witnessed yesterday, I have a few criticisms of the selection and lack of a cohesive game plan. I appreciate playing in 30 degrees takes its toll, but Warrington used that to their advantage in a way we were unable to. I thought they utilised their pack superbly well and showed a desire to win at all costs. Holbrook needs to ensure we get to Old Trafford, no excuses. I was very unhappy with the timing of making it public knowledge he'd be leaving Saints. I don't think it helps anyone, not using that as an excuse but it takes the shine off. Get your head down and get us playing smarter when it counts, we can't walk away from this season having outplayed everyone and won neither of the two biggest domestic competitions.

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    We’ve won one big game in five Holbrook and I mean proper big games, not your run of the mill league games. Leeds perfected peaking at the right time and Wigan have done so in the past few years, too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cock_Sparrer View Post
    I've heard some people say that he should just go now and to be fair there was part of me feeling that way watching us flounder in the heat. He needs to take a huge slice of responsibility for what we witnessed yesterday, I have a few criticisms of the selection and lack of a cohesive game plan. I appreciate playing in 30 degrees takes its toll, but Warrington used that to their advantage in a way we were unable to. I thought they utilised their pack superbly well and showed a desire to win at all costs. Holbrook needs to ensure we get to Old Trafford, no excuses. I was very unhappy with the timing of making it public knowledge he'd be leaving Saints. I don't think it helps anyone, not using that as an excuse but it takes the shine off. Get your head down and get us playing smarter when it counts, we can't walk away from this season having outplayed everyone and won neither of the two biggest domestic competitions.
    Holbrook leaving before he joins Gold Coast (though extremely unlikely) would do nothing to improve our chances of winning the GF. In fact it would be totally counter productive. People advocating that are just projecting their anger and frustration at the clubs poor record in big games (the majority when JH wasn’t even coaching here) onto the coach. Its silly talk.

    A more apt line of conversation would be has Holbrook a game plan to win big games? Once again we looked too predictable and easy to defend against if you work out how to slow the game down. Credit Warrington for playing Hicks like a concert hall piano in that regard. He also needs to get the side mentally prepared, we looked shot yesterday but its hard to see what he has done previously/ will do in the future as these things are near invisible to the common fan.

    Regarding the announcement JH was off to Gold Coast... This was just pure misfortune IMO. We can’t control when other clubs change their coaching staff. It was unfortunate GC sacked Brennan close to this game; once that happened JH was always going to be considered a top candidate for the role.

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    As said above, him leaving now would achieve nothing but he’s now been out coached twice by Steve Price and once by Steve McNamara. They are two poor coaches yet can come up with a game plan to beat us and two of those 3 defeats were fairly comfortable. Yesterday and the previous big game capitulations under him can be forgotten with a Grand Final win and he would still go down as a great coach if he wins it but he’s now very close to going down as a monumental failure who can’t coach in big games. Win or lose that Grand Final (assuming we get there) I’m pleased he won’t be here next year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post

    A more apt line of conversation would be has Holbrook a game plan to win big games? Once again we looked too predictable and easy to defend against if you work out how to slow the game down
    Yep. Only two maybe three big games left.
    Attacking wise yesterday we looked to have learned nothing from the Cats semi final loss just over a year ago.

    Nothing to be gained from 11th hour gestures.

    Holbrook needs to accept responsibility for some continued coaching naivtity at the business end.

    Also the players who pretty much walked back in on their own terms, need to acknowldge some
    very ordinary perfomances.

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    Two big games left. Can we win both? Unlikely.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    Two big games left. Can we win both? Unlikely.
    That's the challenge isn't it, the Holbrook indecisions have raised there head again as we get to the business end of the season. Yesterdays loss might just get us over the line though, we no longer will be the favourites if we get to the Grand Final we are now fully badged up as the BOTTLERS, hopefully the players will feed off that.

    Next Fridays game should be interesting what team does Holbrook select and how are the mental wounded players going to react and bounce back.

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    Coote needs to play on Friday that's for sure to try to make up for his woeful display yesterday

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    That's the challenge isn't it, the Holbrook indecisions have raised there head again as we get to the business end of the season. Yesterdays loss might just get us over the line though, we no longer will be the favourites if we get to the Grand Final we are now fully badged up as the BOTTLERS, hopefully the players will feed off that.

    Next Fridays game should be interesting what team does Holbrook select and how are the mental wounded players going to react and bounce back.
    Back to basics.

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    Holbrook’s comments post-match were baffling and wrong. We were never in the contest so his words are strange.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintH517 View Post
    As said above, him leaving now would achieve nothing but he’s now been out coached twice by Steve Price and once by Steve McNamara. They are two poor coaches yet can come up with a game plan to beat us and two of those 3 defeats were fairly comfortable. Yesterday and the previous big game capitulations under him can be forgotten with a Grand Final win and he would still go down as a great coach if he wins it but he’s now very close to going down as a monumental failure who can’t coach in big games. Win or lose that Grand Final (assuming we get there) I’m pleased he won’t be here next year.
    I think Price is an excellent coach. 3/3 finals already in 2 seasons. Coming off a loss at Wembley last year and reaching the GF. Getting to Wembley again this year, on a run of poor form and without your best player and implimenting the perfect game plan to win against the odds and lay to rest the ghosts of last year's loss. A side widely ridiculed for being 'also rans'. That's very impressive in my book.

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    I was surprised the Wire fans didn't sing its always your year to us .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Channard View Post
    I think Price is an excellent coach. 3/3 finals already in 2 seasons. Coming off a loss at Wembley last year and reaching the GF. Getting to Wembley again this year, on a run of poor form and without your best player and implimenting the perfect game plan to win against the odds and lay to rest the ghosts of last year's loss. A side widely ridiculed for being 'also rans'. That's very impressive in my book.
    Warrington are a poor side, they played very basic rugby well yesterday. Their win was more because we were dreadful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintH517 View Post
    Warrington are a poor side, they played very basic rugby well yesterday. Their win was more because we were dreadful.
    As true as that is, they also beat some very good sides to get to Wembley and that is not coincidence. Take nothing away from them, they had the measure of us yesterday and you can only beat what's in front of you. Wasn't their fault Saints were so lacklustre. We have the wrong mentality and have become a club of glamour boys. There are some noticeable exceptions and I for one wouldn't begrudge Makinson a move to the NRL. He is probably too good for us as it stands and has shown real loyalty to the club by putting the team before his own ambitions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintH517 View Post
    Warrington are a poor side, they played very basic rugby well yesterday. Their win was more because we were dreadful.
    It was a perfect storm.

    Bad ref decisions, several players having an off day, individual errors leading directly to opposition tries, unfit/ not game ready returnees, Wire playing their game plan with very few errors and 30 degree heat.

    Any of those conditions change and the result could have been very different.
    Get busy living, or get busy dying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintH517 View Post
    Warrington are a poor side, they played very basic rugby well yesterday. Their win was more because we were dreadful.
    We beat ourselves, like a few on here said we would beforehand. Its so frustrating

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    It was a perfect storm.

    Bad ref decisions, several players having an off day, individual errors leading directly to opposition tries, unfit/ not game ready returnees, Wire playing their game plan with very few errors and 30 degree heat.

    Any of those conditions change and the result could have been very different.
    You've nailed it. Very good post. The refs killed the contest very early on, with everything else you've cited all coming off the back of that. Thaler, and particularly Hicks, have a lot to answer for. I know refs are only human and we all make mistakes, but to make that decision on the pitch in such a big game, in those conditions and at such speed, and not take the pressure off yourself and make sure you're right by referring it to the VR is unfathomable to me. I truly believe that we go 6 up at that stage, we win by 18+ as so many predicted. Take nothing away from Warrington, who ran their blood to water at to a man executed the perfect game plan.

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    It’s hard not to be influenced by the anger and disappointment I am feeling but I feel the following and accept there is hindsight in this as well.
    Holbrook is a good coach, but not a top coach (yet).
    He was influenced by an obsession to play unfit (match fit) players for the final. I see why Coote was picked but I can’t help but think it was a massive error.
    If he picks Paulo to play again this season I will despair. I find his inclusion by JH a big minus point in his coaching ability. Bentley is far better option.
    If he does not play a full strength team from Friday all the way through to the play offs it will cost us. No player should now be rested.
    Putting the bad refereeing to one side collectively the team were awful. Some more than others but I do believe the attitude was ( apart from about 15 minutes when we were chasing) nothing short of embarrassing. Turn up and win attitude IMO.
    One other thing unless we learn to push the boundaries of rugby rules and play ‘dirty’ and ‘Grubby’ we will win FA. For a long time I have thought we are too nice.
    Humans are more concerned with having than being.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    It’s hard not to be influenced by the anger and disappointment I am feeling but I feel the following and accept there is hindsight in this as well.
    Holbrook is a good coach, but not a top coach (yet).
    He was influenced by an obsession to play unfit (match fit) players for the final. I see why Coote was picked but I can’t help but think it was a massive error.
    If he picks Paulo to play again this season I will despair. I find his inclusion by JH a big minus point in his coaching ability. Bentley is far better option.
    If he does not play a full strength team from Friday all the way through to the play offs it will cost us. No player should now be rested.
    Putting the bad refereeing to one side collectively the team were awful. Some more than others but I do believe the attitude was ( apart from about 15 minutes when we were chasing) nothing short of embarrassing. Turn up and win attitude IMO.
    One other thing unless we learn to push the boundaries of rugby rules and play ‘dirty’ and ‘Grubby’ we will win FA. For a long time I have thought we are too nice.
    Absolutely agree. We are a bit like the latter Wenger era Arsenal sides, all fart and no poo.

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