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Thread: Choked?

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    The one plus out of this I suppose is Hicks won't get anymore death threats from their scummy fans. As far as I'm concerned just like Murrayfield we were losers from the start.
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    Coote was dresdful today, but imo he shouldn't have played today. He clearly wasn't fit and an unfit player will be found out on that pitch. I actually felt for the lad, he's been outstanding all season and i lay no blame on him whatsoever. I've had this though all week that it was a big risk playing 4 players that have missed a few weeks. The risk didn't pay off and this time Holbrook got it wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by djdegsy View Post
    Coote was dresdful today, but imo he shouldn't have played today. He clearly wasn't fit and an unfit player will be found out on that pitch. I actually felt for the lad, he's been outstanding all season and i lay no blame on him whatsoever. I've had this though all week that it was a big risk playing 4 players that have missed a few weeks. The risk didn't pay off and this time Holbrook got it wrong.
    I would say Coote wasn't mentally fit rather than physical fit, the pressure got to him, just look at that conversion attempt it was awful. How many dropped balls did he make and his thought process of supporting our half backs was way off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by djdegsy View Post
    Coote was dresdful today, but imo he shouldn't have played today. He clearly wasn't fit and an unfit player will be found out on that pitch. I actually felt for the lad, he's been outstanding all season and i lay no blame on him whatsoever. I've had this though all week that it was a big risk playing 4 players that have missed a few weeks. The risk didn't pay off and this time Holbrook got it wrong.
    Double Post:

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    I can take losing to a better team. I cannot take that performance, however.

    For me, that’s Holbrook done. Sack him now. Not won a big game and he’s blagged a job in the NRL, he’ll be washing cars for a living in a year.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    I can take losing to a better team. I cannot take that performance, however.

    For me, that’s Holbrook done. Sack him now. Not won a big game and he’s blagged a job in the NRL, he’ll be washing cars for a living in a year.
    Too many Cervezas?

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I would say Coote wasn't mentally fit rather than physical fit, the pressure got to him, just look at that conversion attempt it was awful. How many dropped balls did he make and his thought process of supporting our half backs was way off.
    Said this on the We Go Again thread, the conversion was a pointer, not that one was needed though his out of hand kicking was on the money. Robes pass timing was dreadful, we get used to him being able to come straight back into a side as his usual self, 40 plus tackles, 100m made, runs from dummy half and accurate quick passing today showed he is human.

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    Quote Originally Posted by djdegsy View Post
    Coote was dresdful today, but imo he shouldn't have played today. He clearly wasn't fit and an unfit player will be found out on that pitch. I actually felt for the lad, he's been outstanding all season and i lay no blame on him whatsoever. I've had this though all week that it was a big risk playing 4 players that have missed a few weeks. The risk didn't pay off and this time Holbrook got it wrong.
    My exact thoughts! When coote plays he’s massive for us in attack so when you throw him lacking fitness and definitely not match sharp in the biggest game of the season! Certainly not going to slate Holbrook or ever turn on him but he’s lost 2 semis and 1 final with another semi/final left hope he goes out with something to his name.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger View Post
    Said this on the We Go Again thread, the conversion was a pointer, not that one was needed though his out of hand kicking was on the money. Robes pass timing was dreadful, we get used to him being able to come straight back into a side as his usual self, 40 plus tackles, 100m made, runs from dummy half and accurate quick passing today showed he is human.
    Roby looked knackered today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Houghwood Saint View Post
    Roby looked knackered today.
    Looked like his years finally caught up with him today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bewareshadows View Post
    Give over Holbrook was 1000% improvement on cunningham and has moved use from awful to contenders each year.

    Not all coaches can win things but they can rebalance a club sliding the wrong way down the lesgue
    I never said anything about Cunningham.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk DD's Avatar
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    Where do you start on this?

    For one, let's not lie. The better side won. Fair and square. We got turfed and nobody can complain.

    It's alright saying this with the benefit of hindsight, but I fancied this would happen and I was right.

    For one, underestimating a good Warrington side was always silly, but I suspect this was more a fan thing than a player thing.

    However, there were a few issues, and again, I don't especially blame the coach, because I would have done the same, but with the benefit of hindsight you should never pick anybody who isn't 100% at Wembley. Despite the number of utter dickfers who have given Coote our man of the match on the main site, he stank the building out, which is such a shame, because he's been briliant all year. The reality is that Wembley finds out those who are not match fit, and it certainly did today.

    Another issue that I have always had, and been slagged for it, is that I don't believe our half backs have that bit of Ingredient X to open up a structured defence in a tight game. Lomax looks great at times, and Theo works his tripe off for that team, but come the last play of the six, neither has that something special to open up the opposition.

    I know people will laugh at me, or slag me off for this, but I will be proved right. Unless we find a defence unlocking half back, who's got intelligence, ingenuity and differentiation late in the tackle count, we will continue to fall short.

    We are a a magnificent flat track bully side, but the truth is that this team cannot hold a candle to many of the Saints teams of the past.

    The likes of Scully, Dunders, Longy, Martyn et al were winners. This current crop doesn't know how to win when it matters. Ingredient X is missing. They have ability, but the reality is that they are losers. They don't seem to have the mentality to finish the job when the chips are down.

    This set of players, as things currently stand, are bottleless losers.

    I challenge them to prove me wrong.
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    If you were there today. You would have seen how many times they were offside. It was genuinely ridiculous. They were stood 2-5 metres in front of child's and he still didn't give us •••• all. Never have I seen any team so far offside every set and get away with it. It would have been Hilarious if it wasn't saints

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saladfan View Post
    How can you moan about the No Try? You still had Over 70 mins to right that wrong and the best teams do that regardless of bad referees - you structure the win yourself. Tough tit if the Masila try looked a bit forward, you scored off one miles forward at the HJ. What goes around seems to come around eh?
    Why are you here? Sad act

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post
    What was the error count, can think of Walmsley 2, Grace 2, Coote 2, Knowles 2 off the top of my head
    Think it was around 20 mate.

    Do we have a pack? Or are we just going to use our 3/4s to run the ball up all the time?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Too many Cervezas?
    Too many something, I’ve just read another of his posts, shambolic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post

    Another issue that I have always had, and been slagged for it, is that I don't believe our half backs have that bit of Ingredient X to open up a structured defence in a tight game. Lomax looks great at times, and Theo works his tripe off for that team, but come the last play of the six, neither has that something special to open up the opposition.

    I know people will laugh at me, or slag me off for this, but I will be proved right. Unless we find a defence unlocking half back, who's got intelligence, ingenuity and differentiation late in the tackle count, we will continue to fall short.
    Warrington won with Patton and Currie in the halves.
    The game was lost due to the amounts of errors we made, too many knock ons, end of, nothing to do with not having ‘defence unlocking halfbacks’ which we do. Warrington defended well and made hardly any errors, that’s what wins big games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reliable sauce View Post
    Warrington won with Patton and Currie in the halves.
    The game was lost due to the amounts of errors we made, too many knock ons, end of, nothing to do with not having ‘defence unlocking halfbacks’ which we do. Warrington defended well and made hardly any errors, that’s what wins big games.
    Exactly a very low error count, didn't give many penalties away, less expansive rugby, solid defence, composed and fully focussed on that simple game plan. We were completely the opposite and can't play cup final rugby ........again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Chief View Post
    Bottled it, end of. Knowles try disallowed, we stopped playing. Wires outplayed and out coached us. Major questions over Holbrook and his ability to coach a team to a win in a big game. He should be reading the riot act in the changing room and reminding them how embarrassing today’s loss was as a favourite, arguably biggest favourite in CC final history and failed to get the result when it mattered. Walmsley and Thompson were anonymous.

    The GF can’t come soon enough, but on today’s evidence, not sure we would win there either
    Mate I don't know who you are but you obviously know the game inside out , only just come on here after the game to comment = I don't need to you've put what happened in a nutshell , I'll just add three simple words "we bottled it" .
    roy litherland it's happened i told you it would

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    Quote Originally Posted by reliable sauce View Post
    Warrington won with Patton and Currie in the halves.
    The game was lost due to the amounts of errors we made, too many knock ons, end of, nothing to do with not having ‘defence unlocking halfbacks’ which we do. Warrington defended well and made hardly any errors, that’s what wins big games.
    I agree.

    I need a bit of time to get my full thoughts on yesterday but finals are ultimately about completing your sets, kicking well and defending well. The intensity of the game doesn't usually allow for an open game and therefore you need to handle the pressure, play with composure and take your chances when they come.

    We never gave ourselves a chance yesterday despite starting well. Every single try we practically gifted to Warrington. Philbin's a simple charge to the line (after we made an error), BMM's a simple short ball near the line punishing a poor defensive read (again following an error) and Clarke's a dummy half run close to our line (again I think we made an error before this?). You cannot do that in finals. Warrington didn't do anything special at all, they simply tackled very well, completed their sets and kicked very well. We didn't do any of that - we made a ridiculous amount of errors and when under pressure our defence crumbled.

    Until we learn to the handle the ocassion of a final and do the simple things well, we won't win a final.

    I should say though, we weren't helped at all by the referee. A couple of really key decisions went against us in that 1st half especially and that did have a bearing on the momentum of that 1st half.


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    Warrington played like we did in the 2014 final. Patient, no frills, defended well. We looked the far more dangerous team in the opening 15 minutes but putting nothing on the scoreboard Warringtons confidence seemed to grow. They got into that zone where defending becomes easy and enjoyable. We could still be playing now and not score any more trys.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Think it was around 20 mate.

    Do we have a pack? Or are we just going to use our 3/4s to run the ball up all the time?

    I'm raging. But I accept it. Comprehensively beaten
    Warrington won the game like saints used to win tight finals by defending their hearts out and taking their opportunities, they wanted it more simple as.

    However things werent helped by Hicks, the knowles no try decision in a big game was a disgrace, if thats given our confidence goes up and wires drops. A team defending hard for that long and not conceding booms with confidence.

    The first try coming from a clear knock wire knock on shows it wasnt going to be our day, and coote missing the goal kick was shocking.

    We have no plan b again this season, we didnt learn from last year, we cant grind teams down, if our attack doesnt blow a team away in the first 20 minutes we go to pieces.

    Also can someone explain to Percy how to pass a ball, he is far too greedy compared to saints skillfull center's of old.

    Oh and can anyone explain how clarke got MOM when clearly Philbin should have, he destroyed us yesterday and changed their attack.
    Saints until i Die!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    I agree.

    I need a bit of time to get my full thoughts on yesterday but finals are ultimately about completing your sets, kicking well and defending well. The intensity of the game doesn't usually allow for an open game and therefore you need to handle the pressure, play with composure and take your chances when they come.

    We never gave ourselves a chance yesterday despite starting well. Every single try we practically gifted to Warrington. Philbin's a simple charge to the line (after we made an error), BMM's a simple short ball near the line punishing a poor defensive read (again following an error) and Clarke's a dummy half run close to our line (again I think we made an error before this?). You cannot do that in finals. Warrington didn't do anything special at all, they simply tackled very well, completed their sets and kicked very well. We didn't do any of that - we made a ridiculous amount of errors and when under pressure our defence crumbled.

    Until we learn to the handle the ocassion of a final and do the simple things well, we won't win a final.

    I should say though, we weren't helped at all by the referee. A couple of really key decisions went against us in that 1st half especially and that did have a bearing on the momentum of that 1st half.
    Well put as usual pal.I hope we learn from this and we have to play players fit and in form.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harri81 View Post
    Warrington won the game like saints used to win tight finals by defending their hearts out and taking their opportunities, they wanted it more simple as.
    I don’t think it’s got anything to do with desire. It’s about composure. Reliable Sauce and Blobby have nailed it, for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prez View Post
    Glad you spotted the "knock on" by Grace that was actually off the arm of a Warrington player into Grace! I was shouting at the TV! So Hicks made three huge mistakes. We didn't play well but on a level playing field I feel we would still have won. Once again an official has stupidly altered the course of a game. Was he stupid, arrogant (in not going to the VR for our first "try") or is it something else? I know I'm getting sick of this type of decision against us in big games. No wonder the wider world doesn't take our sport seriously!
    Your 'something else' was what I thought .

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