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Thread: So far so good

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Scouse Don's Avatar
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    Default So far so good

    Just looking at the season as a whole so far it is very encouraging for three principle reasons which make it different to last years disappointing end.

    1. Coote now a clear upgrade on Ben Barba. A team player with composure and class.
    2. We have big Al back
    3. We have been able to rest a few and maintain performance levels when doing so apart from the odd blip.

    But we have won nowt yet. I am confident that we now have the ability to deal with teams trying to monster us or resort to foul play Catalans/Wire we just need to keep our composure in key games because our game just boils down to two cup finals.

    Any thoughts on improvements on last year?

    ps fans have upped their game too.
    Learned comment from The Don

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    Roby will be back, fit and rested for the business end of the season.

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    Some good points there. Also the team spirit looks better this year. We don't go mad at each other when we make mistakes.

    Lots and lots of positives and honestly you can't fault any of them. Everyone's pulling their weight and doing their jobs. The kids have been massive for us with our table position, even lads like Bentley coming in at 9 and I know he's not the best playing out of position he is still giving it everything. Scoring a crucial try to give us the win against Salford, making a couple of breaks at Warrington when we were on the rack.

    Your last paragraph is key though, I know I keep saying it but it's rare a team goes a full season without it crashing down at some point. I'm hoping we just have one of those freak years, we deserve it with the season we've had so far. We are the best team in the league just like last year and Cas the year before.

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    Composure is the key word this year compared to last - so far even when it’s been back to walls like against Salford or the first 20 minutes vs Warrington last year the team would have pulled themselves and unravelled. This year they have had another year of Holbrook drilling into them, stick to your job and if everyone does the same it’ll turn around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    Just looking at the season as a whole so far it is very encouraging for three principle reasons which make it different to last years disappointing end.

    1. Coote now a clear upgrade on Ben Barba. A team player with composure and class.
    2. We have big Al back
    3. We have been able to rest a few and maintain performance levels when doing so apart from the odd blip.

    But we have won nowt yet. I am confident that we now have the ability to deal with teams trying to monster us or resort to foul play Catalans/Wire we just need to keep our composure in key games because our game just boils down to two cup finals.

    Any thoughts on improvements on last year?

    ps fans have upped their game too.
    Not disagreeing with anything said on there, and I feel the rule changes have helped us as well, with shot clock etc. speeding up the match it’s stopping teams having a breather. Who can forget last seasons games against Catalan and Huddersfield when the game was being slowed at every ruck:..... Bird having a lie down every few minutes for example....

    Referees seem to be getting wiser to the timewasting
    Can't stop the spirits when they need you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    Just looking at the season as a whole so far it is very encouraging for three principle reasons which make it different to last years disappointing end.

    1. Coote now a clear upgrade on Ben Barba. A team player with composure and class.
    2. We have big Al back
    3. We have been able to rest a few and maintain performance levels when doing so apart from the odd blip.

    But we have won nowt yet. I am confident that we now have the ability to deal with teams trying to monster us or resort to foul play Catalans/Wire we just need to keep our composure in key games because our game just boils down to two cup finals.

    Any thoughts on improvements on last year?

    ps fans have upped their game too.
    Would agree on your all points.

    On point 1, Barba was incredible until June but once the speculation grew about his future and his head was turned it affected his performances and the rest of the team. We just seem more settled with Coote in the side and his calming influence brings out the best in other players (our three quarters and Lomax in particular). He's nowhere near as individually good or as flashy, but as you say he is a better team player and more reliable especially in defence.

    I would add the following:

    Fages becoming our 1st choice 7 has also made us more solid defensively on the edges. Teams can no longer aim at Danny Richardson's weakness in defence as Fages is arguably one of the best defensive halves in the league. On the negative to that, Fages kicking game is suspect and he sometimes fails to controls games under pressure. He was pretty average against Warrington last week, it was Lomax that stepped up and delivered for us.

    Just looking at our points for and against average for this year so far compared to last year:

    After 30 games last year we scored 885 points (average 29.5 per game) and conceded 408 points (average conceded 13.6).
    After 20 games this year we have scored 666 points (average 33.3 per game) and conceded 291 points (average conceded 14.55).

    We're pretty much a try a game better off, whilst defensively we're fairly comparable to last season (1 point worse off this season so far), which suggests we're more balanced in attack than we were last season.

    Our form really dipped in the last 7 games of last season with our defence conceding a much higher average than the 1st 23 rounds (1st 23 rounds defence average conceded 12.5 per game, final 7 rounds defence average conceded 17.1 points per game), so it'll be interesting to see how we cope in the final rounds and whether the squad rotation policy will ensure we can maintain our intensity.

    The key for us is to keep everyone fit for the big games and to focus on ourselves rather than worrying about what everyone else may do. I think the key players for us are Coote, Makinson, Lomax, Roby and Walmsley. If those are fit at the business end, we've got a great chance. Holbrook has learned a big lesson from last year with his rotation policy and that will definitely continue with top all but being wrapped up, barring a complete capitulation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    Just looking at the season as a whole so far it is very encouraging for three principle reasons which make it different to last years disappointing end.

    1. Coote now a clear upgrade on Ben Barba. A team player with composure and class.
    2. We have big Al back
    3. We have been able to rest a few and maintain performance levels when doing so apart from the odd blip.

    But we have won nowt yet. I am confident that we now have the ability to deal with teams trying to monster us or resort to foul play Catalans/Wire we just need to keep our composure in key games because our game just boils down to two cup finals.

    Any thoughts on improvements on last year?

    ps fans have upped their game too.
    Although we are nowhere near the quality of our 2006 team we are very similar in the way we are playing this season in respect to being a team not reliant on one individual player, Coote has been that extra cog on the team gear.

    We have yet to be dominated this season and when you look at the 2 current losses there were particular circumstances that attributed to those losses. The Catalan game was a slow affair due to the boggy condition of the pitch, this is were we needed creativity but we had Richardson playing his first game of the season with Welsby playing his first full game at stand off. The London Broncos game was similar with different reasons too many changes in the side at the important pivotal positions with Coote, Lomax and plenty of others rested.

    As already mentioned, Walmsley has given that edge to our pack strength and luckily we have only had 1 or 2 injured forwards injured in short spells and we have learnt how to play without Roby. For me Knowles and LMS have been immense in there contribution when it really mattered.

    Lastly Holbrook looks as though he has developed into a better coach by not repeating the negatives of last season, it does look as though we have plenty of attacking option to pull the rabbit out of the hat when under pressure and that might be the thing that will put us in good stead when the big games come up at the end of the season.
    Last edited by STIDDY; 2nd July 2019 at 09:46.

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    Some great points made in the previous posts, and I'd add that I think we've also developed a much wider range of attacking options since last season.

    We had a couple of core moves involving Benny B last year that, first half of the season, worked great. But, with teams becoming more familiar with our plays and Barba's top form dissolving, we looked blunted in most games, even when we won. I know Holbrook said we were working on different moves and tactics a few times during the season, but we never looked as slick as during that early season. With tweaks to personnel, a full off-season to work on increasing the range of moves and tactics, and Holbrook having a full season to have assessed the players, we are much less predictable.

    The all-round ability of Coote helps, as does the major improvement on the speed we are able to move the ball to the right where, although I though Morgan was a decent centre, Naiqama has more explosive speed and Makinson is as consistent as ever. On the other flank, whilst I think Percival has had a bit of a stop-start season with niggling knocks, Grace has shown even more improvement. In the halves, Lomax has got even better at 6, whilst the competition for the No7 jersey seems to have driven both Fages and Richardson to improve the parts of their games they have previously lacked in.

    Our front row is scarily good. We have 6 props (including Louis) who would walk into any 17 in SL - and another out on loan at Leigh. The prime pair of Walmsley & Thompson are the best two props in SL by some distance. Knowles is developing into an absolute top quality player.

    I also think the bitter lessons of last season have been learned, with Holbrook realising the importance of some rotation of players, and the players themselves seeming more determined to succeed.

    We just need to keep it together for the crunch games, and we'll end the season with silverware - hopefully both trophies plus the shield.

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    I would add another: Coote’s goal kicking. He has improved tremendously since the start of the season culminating with last Friday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Some great points made in the previous posts, and I'd add that I think we've also developed a much wider range of attacking options since last season.

    We had a couple of core moves involving Benny B last year that, first half of the season, worked great. But, with teams becoming more familiar with our plays and Barba's top form dissolving, we looked blunted in most games, even when we won. I know Holbrook said we were working on different moves and tactics a few times during the season, but we never looked as slick as during that early season. With tweaks to personnel, a full off-season to work on increasing the range of moves and tactics, and Holbrook having a full season to have assessed the players, we are much less predictable.

    The all-round ability of Coote helps, as does the major improvement on the speed we are able to move the ball to the right where, although I though Morgan was a decent centre, Naiqama has more explosive speed and Makinson is as consistent as ever. On the other flank, whilst I think Percival has had a bit of a stop-start season with niggling knocks, Grace has shown even more improvement. In the halves, Lomax has got even better at 6, whilst the competition for the No7 jersey seems to have driven both Fages and Richardson to improve the parts of their games they have previously lacked in.

    Our front row is scarily good. We have 6 props (including Louis) who would walk into any 17 in SL - and another out on loan at Leigh. The prime pair of Walmsley & Thompson are the best two props in SL by some distance. Knowles is developing into an absolute top quality player.

    I also think the bitter lessons of last season have been learned, with Holbrook realising the importance of some rotation of players, and the players themselves seeming more determined to succeed.

    We just need to keep it together for the crunch games, and we'll end the season with silverware - hopefully both trophies plus the shield.
    That sums my thoughts up exactly.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Wee Waa Womble's Avatar
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    There’s lots to be said in the debate over Barba vs Coote, Fages v Richardson, having Walmsley available. I think the biggest difference is our fitness. It allows us to play at an intensity that no-one else can match for 80 minutes even in extremely hot conditions one sub down for 77 minutes. In the Wire game we were behind for 60 minutes but knowing that we would be able to maintain our intensity, combined with bringing back on Thompson and Walmsley, I wasn’t at all nervous about the result. Nothing won yet but I feel we are better equipped to do so than last year.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    I don't think that there is a single point in all of the above posts that is not valid. Roll on the business end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    There’s lots to be said in the debate over Barba vs Coote, Fages v Richardson, having Walmsley available. I think the biggest difference is our fitness. It allows us to play at an intensity that no-one else can match for 80 minutes even in extremely hot conditions one sub down for 77 minutes. In the Wire game we were behind for 60 minutes but knowing that we would be able to maintain our intensity, combined with bringing back on Thompson and Walmsley, I wasn’t at all nervous about the result. Nothing won yet but I feel we are better equipped to do so than last year.
    Another very good point, injuries are part and parcel of the game but being in the best physical condition helps negate those injuries a little.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Some great points made in the previous posts, and I'd add that I think we've also developed a much wider range of attacking options since last season.

    We had a couple of core moves involving Benny B last year that, first half of the season, worked great. But, with teams becoming more familiar with our plays and Barba's top form dissolving, we looked blunted in most games, even when we won. I know Holbrook said we were working on different moves and tactics a few times during the season, but we never looked as slick as during that early season. With tweaks to personnel, a full off-season to work on increasing the range of moves and tactics, and Holbrook having a full season to have assessed the players, we are much less predictable.

    The all-round ability of Coote helps, as does the major improvement on the speed we are able to move the ball to the right where, although I though Morgan was a decent centre, Naiqama has more explosive speed and Makinson is as consistent as ever. On the other flank, whilst I think Percival has had a bit of a stop-start season with niggling knocks, Grace has shown even more improvement. In the halves, Lomax has got even better at 6, whilst the competition for the No7 jersey seems to have driven both Fages and Richardson to improve the parts of their games they have previously lacked in.

    Our front row is scarily good. We have 6 props (including Louis) who would walk into any 17 in SL - and another out on loan at Leigh. The prime pair of Walmsley & Thompson are the best two props in SL by some distance. Knowles is developing into an absolute top quality player.

    I also think the bitter lessons of last season have been learned, with Holbrook realising the importance of some rotation of players, and the players themselves seeming more determined to succeed.

    We just need to keep it together for the crunch games, and we'll end the season with silverware - hopefully both trophies plus the shield.
    Spot on my friend, a completely accurate assessment in my view.

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    Our position at this time is so strong that if we

    Win the next 3 games we can finish no lower than 2nd
    and then beat Wakey we are in the position
    If we beat Wire we are guaranteed top with 4 games to go

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    Very good thread with excellent points being made. Another aspect not mentioned is self believe and confidence. The team is operating as a very effective and cohesive single unit. Not only are players confident in their own abilities but they have the same level of trust and belief in team mates abilities too.
    I hope Coote sees out his contract in full because his impact cannot be understated.

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    Agree with everything, particularly about the front row which other teams can’t handle. With Knowles you could give him the 13 jersey for the next decade and just forget about it

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    It's not just about being fit , we are far more "ahletic" than I can ever remember.
    roy litherland it's happened i told you it would

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    Quote Originally Posted by roy litherland View Post
    It's not just about being fit , we are far more "ahletic" than I can ever remember.
    Agreed, inrecon most if not all our forwards could slot into centres if needed, shows how athletic they are

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    Agreed, inrecon most if not all our forwards could slot into centres if needed, shows how athletic they are
    I think Coote apart (Whom I wouldn't trade for any other F we are probably the most mobile team on SL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    I think Coote apart (Whom I wouldn't trade for any other F we are probably the most mobile team on SL
    It's been touched on but, I think, the last 20 minutes of each game we are so much more physically and mentally fit that teams haven't been able to live with us so far. We are very composed and don't panic, knowing that we can finish strong. It's as though our opponents have given us their best shot, like Wire last week, and then we can up the tempo and win the game in that period. Credit to all the coaching staff for having us prepared that way.
    "Never write off the Saints!!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by MachineGunFunk View Post
    It's been touched on but, I think, the last 20 minutes of each game we are so much more physically and mentally fit that teams haven't been able to live with us so far. We are very composed and don't panic, knowing that we can finish strong. It's as though our opponents have given us their best shot, like Wire last week, and then we can up the tempo and win the game in that period. Credit to all the coaching staff for having us prepared that way.
    Sign of a good team. Remind me of the 1975-76 team They would absorb all the pressure in usually a close first half and then gradually pull away in the 2nd; Wembley & Premiership finals 76'.

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    I think it’s amazing to see us not signing anyone (weird to say I know). I see Leeds and Wigan and Wire and other clubs signing players left right and center, yet we haven’t. Just shows how well balanced and talented the current squad is that we don’t need to rush out and sign anyone.

    Back in the Cunningham era I remember getting frustrated that we wasn’t signing players. Funny how things change :-)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by complex.matt View Post
    I think it’s amazing to see us not signing anyone (weird to say I know). I see Leeds and Wigan and Wire and other clubs signing players left right and center, yet we haven’t. Just shows how well balanced and talented the current squad is that we don’t need to rush out and sign anyone.

    Back in the Cunningham era I remember getting frustrated that we wasn’t signing players. Funny how things change :-)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yep, off the top of my head only Wigan have signed anyone decent too. It did actually cross my mind last night what would improve us within the limits of the salary cap, maybe get rid of Amor and Douglas and sign a good prop but I cam't see many wanting to come and be 6th choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    Yep, off the top of my head only Wigan have signed anyone decent too. It did actually cross my mind last night what would improve us within the limits of the salary cap, maybe get rid of Amor and Douglas and sign a good prop but I cam't see many wanting to come and be 6th choice.
    On that point have we any other young props waiting the wings so to speak
    Ashworth lost a bit of time due to injury but Lees has come through from under 19 over the last couple of seasons, there must have been another couple of props in the same team.

    We have a few young backs knocking on the door but obviously props need a bit more time to develop .

    Some games in the remainder of this season would present a good opportunity to blood any promising youngsters

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