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Thread: Referees killing the game

  1. #101
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    Fair enough fellow posters, it seems that my views differ to others on this thread. My comments are no no way meant as disrespectful to the players and maybe I cannot explain well enough my thoughts.

    I really don't think my comments should be compared to a Mayor talking about murder though! When the debate ends up at that point I'm not sure there's much more sense in continuing the discussion. It's likely to descend into a farce if it isn't there already and spoil it for other posters.

    I've heard many people say and post about the good old days, bring back the biff, sonny nickle, Adam fogarty etc with fondness so either some feel it occasionally spills over and accept it or they have double standards. I dont condone any violence despite how may words may have appeared, it wasn't my intention to leave that impression.

    I cannot describe my thoughts further without repeating myself or adding more confusion so I don't plan to add anymore on this particular subject.

  2. #102
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    I think you’re right. The whole operation appears to be run by dimwits, they are dimwits at the very top so I’m not filled with confidence by somebody going through video clips in an office on a Monday morning
    My main problem with the disciplinary ids the lack of consistency. One week a tackle is OK the next week the same type of tackle is a 2-3 week ban.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    My main problem with the disciplinary ids the lack of consistency. One week a tackle is OK the next week the same type of tackle is a 2-3 week ban.
    I think it's difficult to find two exact situations, although I accept it can be confusing. I think they also consider previous form, intent, was it a reaction etc. Ensuring consistency I think is difficult unless they take a very objective view

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I've no doubt the disciplinary will pick it up later and all the others
    Wow! I admire your faith.

    You might be right, but I wouldn't bet my trousers on it.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Wow! I admire your faith.

    You might be right, but I wouldn't bet my trousers on it.
    They will pick them up but a charge is another matter, my bet will be Hughes because he has that grubby look about him!.

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    For me a shoulder charge direct to the head should be a straight red card as it is in union. There may still be shoulder charges and high tackles that are just down to carelessness or poor technique rather than intent but both together is endangering player safety and is the main reason the shoulder charge was banned following incidents like the Greg Inglis hit on Dean Young.

    The Cooper elbow is a clear penalty. Walmsley’s tackle technique was indeed poor but when an elbow is raised into the head of someone who is 6’5 that’s about as blatant as you get. The high shots on LMS were evident throughout the game from both sides and I’d actually credit Thaler there for not ruining the flow of the game with his whistle. If you watch State of Origin the refs are clearly given a mandate to let the game flow as much as possible by overlooking some of what would be considered penalties in regular NRL games and the result is a brutal, physical non-stop contest the likes of which we very rarely see in super league but thought we saw in the Saints v Wire match.

    I’m not blaming Thaler for the forward pass decision, his touch judge was right in line with it literally 2 metres away and didn’t make the call. In any other line of work that would be considered gross incompetence. Can someone remind me what our touch judges actually do other than mark where the ball crosses the line from kicks and flag conversions?

    For me the referees have to be helped out more by the video refs. In union if an incident occurs where the ref is unsure of exactly what he can ask the TMO to check it while play is ongoing so as not to disrupt play if it is nothing. The video ref can also call the ref to stop play if there is something he has spotted. The place where there is then a real advantage for me is that the ref will then go and watch the replays on the big screen whilst in conversation with the TMO and a decision will be reached and the referee has the final input. They’re also comfortable checking forward passes in union with the same camera angles available to them. Video referees is a technology we pioneered as a sport but are being left behind in almost every area.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    For me a shoulder charge direct to the head should be a straight red card as it is in union. There may still be shoulder charges and high tackles that are just down to carelessness or poor technique rather than intent but both together is endangering player safety and is the main reason the shoulder charge was banned following incidents like the Greg Inglis hit on Dean Young.

    The Cooper elbow is a clear penalty. Walmsley’s tackle technique was indeed poor but when an elbow is raised into the head of someone who is 6’5 that’s about as blatant as you get. The high shots on LMS were evident throughout the game from both sides and I’d actually credit Thaler there for not ruining the flow of the game with his whistle. If you watch State of Origin the refs are clearly given a mandate to let the game flow as much as possible by overlooking some of what would be considered penalties in regular NRL games and the result is a brutal, physical non-stop contest the likes of which we very rarely see in super league but thought we saw in the Saints v Wire match.

    I’m not blaming Thaler for the forward pass decision, his touch judge was right in line with it literally 2 metres away and didn’t make the call. In any other line of work that would be considered gross incompetence. Can someone remind me what our touch judges actually do other than mark where the ball crosses the line from kicks and flag conversions?

    For me the referees have to be helped out more by the video refs. In union if an incident occurs where the ref is unsure of exactly what he can ask the TMO to check it while play is ongoing so as not to disrupt play if it is nothing. The video ref can also call the ref to stop play if there is something he has spotted. The place where there is then a real advantage for me is that the ref will then go and watch the replays on the big screen whilst in conversation with the TMO and a decision will be reached and the referee has the final input. They’re also comfortable checking forward passes in union with the same camera angles available to them. Video referees is a technology we pioneered as a sport but are being left behind in almost every area.
    They said on Sky that the VR can only get involved in foul play where there is a possible card. The Percy high shot on Lineham and the Hill crusher tackle both seemed to be looked at but as neither were deemed worthy of a card a penalty couldn't be given as both where missed by Thaler.

    I actually missed the challenge on Walmsley and I haven't seen it back but I though that the Makinson challenge was more than worthy of a red card. It was a deliberate, forcefull attack to the head and should be a red card and a 4/5 match ban.

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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    For me a shoulder charge direct to the head should be a straight red card as it is in union.
    It was in league until the other night. Unless it’s another one of those interpretations they’ve changed without telling anyone, like the crusher

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    It was in league until the other night. Unless it’s another one of those interpretations they’ve changed without telling anyone, like the crusher
    Our players dont make a meal of it and stay down to force the refs hand.

    Percy and Makinson were almost straight back up after the shoulder charge/crusher.

    They stay down a minute longer, let the replay show a few times on the screen then it get questioned.

    Seen it a few times with Grace this season where he seems to just bounce back up.

    I think the Video ref should be allowed to at least during live play mention a possible foul.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    Fair enough fellow posters, it seems that my views differ to others on this thread. My comments are no no way meant as disrespectful to the players and maybe I cannot explain well enough my thoughts.

    I really don't think my comments should be compared to a Mayor talking about murder though! When the debate ends up at that point I'm not sure there's much more sense in continuing the discussion. It's likely to descend into a farce if it isn't there already and spoil it for other posters.

    I've heard many people say and post about the good old days, bring back the biff, sonny nickle, Adam fogarty etc with fondness so either some feel it occasionally spills over and accept it or they have double standards. I dont condone any violence despite how may words may have appeared, it wasn't my intention to leave that impression.

    I cannot describe my thoughts further without repeating myself or adding more confusion so I don't plan to add anymore on this particular subject.
    Good show. Always nice to hear from folk with such a refreshingly different perspective from everybody else, lets move on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    My main problem with the disciplinary ids the lack of consistency. One week a tackle is OK the next week the same type of tackle is a 2-3 week ban.
    It's not just the disciplinary that are inconsistent,the refs are just as bad to. We all know a crusher tackle is 10 minutes,we've seen it many times. Cummings says the video ref can only interfere with play if there may be a card shown,but he also chose not to. The whole system needs addressing.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by brook View Post
    It's not just the disciplinary that are inconsistent,the refs are just as bad to. We all know a crusher tackle is 10 minutes,we've seen it many times. Cummings says the video ref can only interfere with play if there may be a card shown,but he also chose not to. The whole system needs addressing.
    I agree about the whole system needing addressing, if the assistants see serious foul play (I don't mean every 50/50 high tackle) that the refs miss why is there no input, why don't they police the 10 mtrs eg? If they are not going to assist, maybe we should go back to calling them Touch Judges. To be fair to the raf's they get one look in real time, the disciplinary have videos and solo mo etc. There should be more consistency from them. Perhaps the fact that the panel changes so much leads to inconsistencies.

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    Again the beaten teams fans are blaming the ref for the loss.

    Had it just come to a point where we dominate so many aspects that the other teams fans must think the ref must be letting us off with shit, rather than us just being good.

    It’s getting old


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  14. #114
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    Wigan supporter In peace!! Unfortunately I live in hull now so after last night game (yours not our), the black and white sh1te are hell bent on blaming the ref!! Rovers hardly ever do that, and if beaten, it’s fair and square. Was the ref that bad or is it just very very sour grapes cos they are ‘the sleeping giants’ as sky put it?? From the highlight I saw, hulls defence was non-existent. Views??

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    Quote Originally Posted by In peace!! View Post
    Wigan supporter In peace!! Unfortunately I live in hull now so after last night game (yours not our), the black and white sh1te are hell bent on blaming the ref!! Rovers hardly ever do that, and if beaten, it’s fair and square. Was the ref that bad or is it just very very sour grapes cos they are ‘the sleeping giants’ as sky put it?? From the highlight I saw, hulls defence was non-existent. Views??
    According to some who went to the game we got the rub of the green at times, they mentioned that on 2 occasions the ref seemed to let the obsolete "free play" go on then allowed Saints the ball when it broke down. We had some strange defence stats for this game Hull missed 47 tackles and Saints missed 47 tackles but the scoreline didn't reflect that.

    We were just too fast around the smart plays more so in the first quarter in each half, we did put the cue on the rack in the last quarter and Holbrook wasn't too happy about that and came down to the touchline to have a few words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    According to some who went to the game we got the rub of the green at times, they mentioned that on 2 occasions the ref seemed to let the obsolete "free play" go on then allowed Saints the ball when it broke down. We had some strange defence stats for this game Hull missed 47 tackles and Saints missed 47 tackles but the scoreline didn't reflect that.

    We were just too fast around the smart plays more so in the first quarter in each half, we did put the cue on the rack in the last quarter and Holbrook wasn't too happy about that and came down to the touchline to have a few words.
    Somebody’s having a laugh at you lot missing 47 tackles!! You probably MADE 47 tackles judging by the score line!

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by complex.matt View Post
    Again the beaten teams fans are blaming the ref for the loss.

    Had it just come to a point where we dominate so many aspects that the other teams fans must think the ref must be letting us off with shit, rather than us just being good.

    It’s getting old


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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    According to some who went to the game we got the rub of the green at times, they mentioned that on 2 occasions the ref seemed to let the obsolete "free play" go on then allowed Saints the ball when it broke down. We had some strange defence stats for this game Hull missed 47 tackles and Saints missed 47 tackles but the scoreline didn't reflect that.

    We were just too fast around the smart plays more so in the first quarter in each half, we did put the cue on the rack in the last quarter and Holbrook wasn't too happy about that and came down to the touchline to have a few words.
    We still have advantage rule though, play continues until advantage gained

  19. #119
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    Didn't go to the game so cant pass judgment on the referee Chris Kendal, but he is by far the best ref in the game by a mile.
    roy litherland it's happened i told you it would

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    According to Wish FM, Sneyd threw about 10 forward passes which were obvious and all were allowed. We threw one and it was spotted straight away...
    Still in Newport....still no nearer home.........

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    Quote Originally Posted by newport dave View Post
    According to Wish FM, Sneyd threw about 10 forward passes which were obvious and all were allowed. We threw one and it was spotted straight away...
    On Wish Dave Lyon was going nuts about the forward passes

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    Quote Originally Posted by harwood saint View Post
    On Wish Dave Lyon was going nuts about the forward passes
    What I remember about the Wish commentary:

    1. They found out where the official clock was;

    2. A debate about the number of Super League rounds - 29 won;

    3. Sneyd’s forward passes;

    4. The scoreboard was wrong and the scorer seemed to be posting 2 for a try and 4 for a goal;

    5. We won!


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