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Thread: Referees killing the game

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    Quote Originally Posted by undertheradar View Post
    The sooner we get 2 refs introduced in super league the better. It’s a tough job for one person and it would cut out this play acting and messing around in the ruck

    A cleaner ruck = a quicker game = a better spectacle.

    Oh God, can you imagine Thaler and Hicks refereeing on the same pitch?
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    Refs make mistakes and that can be frustrating, but what else would you expect? I do get annoyed with the way the ruck is policed, particularly with the way the flop has effectively been legalised over the last few years, but that seems more a question of law-making policy than the performance of the ref.

    Frankly this ‘killing the game’ rhetoric is a load of abject nonsense, as is the constant suggestion of bias.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    Refs make mistakes and that can be frustrating, but what else would you expect? I do get annoyed with the way the ruck is policed, particularly with the way the flop has effectively been legalised over the last few years, but that seems more a question of law-making policy than the performance of the ref.

    Frankly this ‘killing the game’ rhetoric is a load of abject nonsense, as is the constant suggestion of bias.
    I agree, there are far worse things killing Super League than the refereeing. Such as the lack of youth development everywhere bar Saints, Wigan, Leeds and Warrington, the complete lack of commercial expertise at the RFL and Super League and the sport's inability to market itself competently.

    But, the refereeing does need a look. I'm not sure if two referees is the way to go, I think we'd see a period of increased penalties, which isn't good for the game. But more frequent rotation with the Championship referees to develop them would help. And I stand by what I said, Thaler does get wound up by us a lot. We're easily the best disciplined side in Super League, yet he's constantly in a strop when refereeing us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by undertheradar View Post
    The sooner we get 2 refs introduced in super league the better. It’s a tough job for one person and it would cut out this play acting and messing around in the ruck

    A cleaner ruck = a quicker game = a better spectacle.


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    Right. There is so much going on for one person, and we have touch judges who hardly contribute, the whole officiating needs a rethink.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    I think you need to rewatch the incident where Taia is injured. He did not put his free arm up to his face, indeed both arms hit the ground at more or less the same time. Similarly, Newman did not lift Taia after he had been grounded but merely tried to turtle him in bringing him down and ended up being on top of Taia as he hit the ground for the first and only time. I assume that it was Newman’s added weight that contributed to the dislocation. The differing views of what happened, both live at the ground and what you believe happened presumably after having watched it on TV, demonstrate the problem of correctly assessing a referee’s input. I should add that at the time I thought Taia had been hit high and that was the cause of his injury.
    Fair enough. I'd not watched it back when I made my post (just the several replays on the big screen at the time). Oledzki does go high with a swinging arm that hits Taia in the face, although you could argue Taia was beginning to fall and Oledzki was making an attempt at a tackle. I think you're being kind on Newman, though. Whilst I accept he didn't actually lift him up off the ground, Newman momentarily prevents Taia from finding the ground, then does slam him into the ground, with the combined weight of both of them. I also hadn't realised it was Newman who Peyroux caught soon after - I thought it was Briscoe. Almost instant retribution!!

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    1 Amor has become a penalty machine
    2 Kendall is miles better than the rest because he doesn't have his own "I am" agenda , makes a mickey once or twice but they are "genuine mistakes" unlike the rest of the crew , just look how many times hicks is looking at the big screen to see if his mugshot is on there.
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    Refs for Friday
    Thaler ref, Hicks video
    Hope they’ve not been reading the posts

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    Refs make mistakes and that can be frustrating, but what else would you expect? I do get annoyed with the way the ruck is policed, particularly with the way the flop has effectively been legalised over the last few years, but that seems more a question of law-making policy than the performance of the ref.

    Frankly this ‘killing the game’ rhetoric is a load of abject nonsense, as is the constant suggestion of bias.
    I agree with you here. I don’t think the refs are better or worse than they used to be. Technology puts them under much greater scrutiny though. I certainly don’t think they are systematically biased. Like anyone, they can have a good day and a bad day. I would be happy to see the officials able to use greater discretion to interpret the game more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roy litherland View Post
    1 Amor has become a penalty machine
    2 Kendall is miles better than the rest because he doesn't have his own "I am" agenda , makes a mickey once or twice but they are "genuine mistakes" unlike the rest of the crew , just look how many times hicks is looking at the big screen to see if his mugshot is on there.
    So you know that the ref you like mistakes are genuine but those you don't like mistakes are not genuine?

    You believe that some refs play the game to get TV exposure and purposely make errors so they can see their own face on the big screen?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaygee View Post
    Refs for Friday
    Thaler ref, Hicks video
    Hope they’ve not been reading the posts

    Oh no, not Bargain Basement Ben, he'll be hogging the spotlight again, ensuring that he decides who wins the big first v second clash. Probably steal away the MOS voting from Austin too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    So you know that the ref you like mistakes are genuine but those you don't like mistakes are not genuine?

    You believe that some refs play the game to get TV exposure and purposely make errors so they can see their own face on the big screen?
    No I said some love to see thier faces on the big screen , then there's honest mistakes and there's shall we say mistakes that suit certain favourite teams , neither made to get on the big screen.
    roy litherland it's happened i told you it would

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    Quote Originally Posted by roy litherland View Post
    No I said some love to see thier faces on the big screen , then there's honest mistakes and there's shall we say mistakes that suit certain favourite teams , neither made to get on the big screen.
    Oh Ok, that's not how it read

    But you do question their integrity, I think any ref proven guilty of cheating like that should be sacked for life , but I don't believe any of them purposely ever make errors. I believe fans who think this are very mistaken and often use the excuse that the ref made an error or perceived error as 'proof' they cheated. Any looking up at the screen would probably be checking their decision, not in the hope of seeing their own face, that suggestion is pure speculation and nobody can claim to know what somebody else is thinking

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    I went to see my 12 year old niece play netball on Saturday. On average the umpire blew the whistle every 30 seconds or so. That was frustrating

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    Quote Originally Posted by maghullsaint View Post
    I went to see my 12 year old niece play netball on Saturday. On average the umpire blew the whistle every 30 seconds or so. That was frustrating
    How old was the umpire?

    Did they blow for an infringement or for nothing in your view?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    Oh Ok, that's not how it read

    But you do question their integrity, I think any ref proven guilty of cheating like that should be sacked for life , but I don't believe any of them purposely ever make errors. I believe fans who think this are very mistaken and often use the excuse that the ref made an error or perceived error as 'proof' they cheated. Any looking up at the screen would probably be checking their decision, not in the hope of seeing their own face, that suggestion is pure speculation and nobody can claim to know what somebody else is thinking
    I don't believe for one minute that refs deliberately cheat. I believe certain players can have varying effects on ref's with their constant questioning of decisions & moaning about the opposition. It is an art in itself & the ability to not let it affect your game must be a hard balance to keep in a pressure situation.

    I was in hospital with an ex ref who was in his prime around the Alex Murphy era at Saint's and he was telling me that the closest he got to 'bending the rules' would be awarding a penalty to a side in the next scrum if he thought he had made a wrong call against a side for whatever reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tilly2006 View Post
    I don't believe for one minute that refs deliberately cheat. I believe certain players can have varying effects on ref's with their constant questioning of decisions & moaning about the opposition. It is an art in itself & the ability to not let it affect your game must be a hard balance to keep in a pressure situation.

    I was in hospital with an ex ref who was in his prime around the Alex Murphy era at Saint's and he was telling me that the closest he got to 'bending the rules' would be awarding a penalty to a side in the next scrum if he thought he had made a wrong call against a side for whatever reason.

    I don't like players talking to the ref, it's a tactic, that's on the players. Would fans support the players being given ten minutes formchallenging a ref? I would but doubt many others would, they most probably make excuses like the players must be frustrated!

    I don't agree a ref should try to make up for a bad call, it could be another bad calmand another etc. Just put it aside and carry on chances are it will balance out naturally

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    There was a lengthy thread on here after the 2016 play off semi final against Warrington were a few decisions went against us that were blatantly wrong.

    From what I remember they were:

    1. Lomax held their man up over the line. Try was given (can't remember if that went to the video ref or not)

    2. Lineham clear as day dropping the ball in the act of scoring a try in the corner. Try was given. Video ref wasn't used.

    3. Peyroux's attempt near the end. No Try given on the field. Video ref is used. Video shows Peyroux clearly getting the ball down. Try wasn't given.

    People (including me) were fuming on here in the subsequent days. The game's integrity was questioned. Some very weird calls combined with Sky banging on about 'will there be a new name on the trophy?' line had me asking serious questions.

    Thaler was the ref that night & I was fuming for days afterwards. We got stitched up that night big time.

    I've always thought odd stuff goes on but I'll never be able to prove it. I'm sure other fans from our club & other clubs feel the same. I don't think it's ridiculous at all to question the integrity.

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    I don’t believe these conspiracy theories.

    Look at the big picture and we’ve had some absolute whoppers go our way too.....
    Can't stop the spirits when they need you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    There was a lengthy thread on here after the 2016 play off semi final against Warrington were a few decisions went against us that were blatantly wrong.

    From what I remember they were:

    1. Lomax held their man up over the line. Try was given (can't remember if that went to the video ref or not)

    2. Lineham clear as day dropping the ball in the act of scoring a try in the corner. Try was given. Video ref wasn't used.

    3. Peyroux's attempt near the end. No Try given on the field. Video ref is used. Video shows Peyroux clearly getting the ball down. Try wasn't given.

    People (including me) were fuming on here in the subsequent days. The game's integrity was questioned. Some very weird calls combined with Sky banging on about 'will there be a new name on the trophy?' line had me asking serious questions.

    Thaler was the ref that night & I was fuming for days afterwards. We got stitched up that night big time.

    I've always thought odd stuff goes on but I'll never be able to prove it. I'm sure other fans from our club & other clubs feel the same. I don't think it's ridiculous at all to question the integrity.
    You can call this a conspiracy theory if you like (nice reassuring label) but how on earth can anyone explain what went on that night? Not just mistakes by onfield officials, but by the video ref as well, all supporting the SKY narrative as pointed out by Ralph. If anyone can explain it rather than just telling us we're paranoid, I'd love to hear the explanation. I accept officials make mistakes, but all those by both the video and on field refs in one match and in a match of such importance...………………………………...Personally I think Thaler should be scrutinised, he is in my opinion the worst ref in the comp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prez View Post
    You can call this a conspiracy theory if you like (nice reassuring label) but how on earth can anyone explain what went on that night? Not just mistakes by onfield officials, but by the video ref as well, all supporting the SKY narrative as pointed out by Ralph. If anyone can explain it rather than just telling us we're paranoid, I'd love to hear the explanation. I accept officials make mistakes, but all those by both the video and on field refs in one match and in a match of such importance...………………………………...Personally I think Thaler should be scrutinised, he is in my opinion the worst ref in the comp.
    Go on then, I'll have a go.

    1) There was nothing unusual about the Sky narrative in that game. The commentary team are always looking for an angle, and something new/novel/unexpected is always something they'll grab onto. So if there's a chance that a new name will be on the trophy, they'll go on about it. They always have and always will - it doesn't mean that they are making these things come about. Indeed, if Sky were that influential, and if they wanted Warrington to win the title that much, why didn't they win it?

    2) My memory of that game is that quite a few 50/50 calls went against us. Sometimes it happens, and because it was a big game there was a lot of scrutiny applied to it. I'll bet that if watched in the cold light of day there weren't as many clear cut mistakes as you're making out.

    3) For the record, the best team won on that night, and if anything the scoreline flattered us.

    4) There's a question that I've asked several times and never had an answer to. A lot of the people who cry conspiracy are the same people who regularly accuse the RFL of being utterly incompetent. How does a modestly funded, incompetent governing body that doesn't know what format its elite league is going to be played in from one season to the next manage to successfully administer a high-stakes match-fixing conspiracy in collusion with a national broadcaster?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    There was a lengthy thread on here after the 2016 play off semi final against Warrington were a few decisions went against us that were blatantly wrong.

    From what I remember they were:

    1. Lomax held their man up over the line. Try was given (can't remember if that went to the video ref or not)

    2. Lineham clear as day dropping the ball in the act of scoring a try in the corner. Try was given. Video ref wasn't used.

    3. Peyroux's attempt near the end. No Try given on the field. Video ref is used. Video shows Peyroux clearly getting the ball down. Try wasn't given.

    People (including me) were fuming on here in the subsequent days. The game's integrity was questioned. Some very weird calls combined with Sky banging on about 'will there be a new name on the trophy?' line had me asking serious questions.

    Thaler was the ref that night & I was fuming for days afterwards. We got stitched up that night big time.

    I've always thought odd stuff goes on but I'll never be able to prove it. I'm sure other fans from our club & other clubs feel the same. I don't think it's ridiculous at all to question the integrity.
    You don't have to be conspiracy theorist to know that game was fixed. Players placing bets is one thing, how about referees and linesmen?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    I don’t believe these conspiracy theories.

    Look at the big picture and we’ve had some absolute whoppers go our way too.....
    Yes fair enough

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    Go on then, I'll have a go.

    1) There was nothing unusual about the Sky narrative in that game. The commentary team are always looking for an angle, and something new/novel/unexpected is always something they'll grab onto. So if there's a chance that a new name will be on the trophy, they'll go on about it. They always have and always will - it doesn't mean that they are making these things come about. Indeed, if Sky were that influential, and if they wanted Warrington to win the title that much, why didn't they win it?

    2) My memory of that game is that quite a few 50/50 calls went against us. Sometimes it happens, and because it was a big game there was a lot of scrutiny applied to it. I'll bet that if watched in the cold light of day there weren't as many clear cut mistakes as you're making out.

    3) For the record, the best team won on that night, and if anything the scoreline flattered us.

    4) There's a question that I've asked several times and never had an answer to. A lot of the people who cry conspiracy are the same people who regularly accuse the RFL of being utterly incompetent. How does a modestly funded, incompetent governing body that doesn't know what format its elite league is going to be played in from one season to the next manage to successfully administer a high-stakes match-fixing conspiracy in collusion with a national broadcaster?
    Got to admit...that's a great post in response. Very well put.

    FWIW Warrington did play better than us that night. But the year after against Cas, we got beat again but I could accept that more even though I was gutted as I thought the officiating was better

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    Default Referees killing the game

    Rather than conspiracy theories or refs fixing matches etc it’s probably more to do with subconscious bias.

    If a ref has had a bad experience with a team or genuinely doesn’t like a player or fans etc subconsciously they will favour the other team when making decisions

    This isn’t a referee reaction, it’s a human reaction. As ‘neutral’ as they need to be, I’m sure, like all of us in life, they favour certain teams or players because of previous experiences.


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