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Thread: All quiet on the Justin front.

  1. #351
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    Playing devils advocate here but does Justin need to win the CC or Grand Final to keep his job?

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    No

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rommel View Post
    Playing devils advocate here but does Justin need to win the CC or Grand Final to keep his job?
    Good question.

    For me he would’ve failed if he doesn’t win at least one final this year. Being the best team in the country for 2 years is great but without major silverware it’s meaningless. He has to deliver this season and to be fair I think he will.
    NEVER WRITE OFF THE SAINTS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Invisible View Post
    On behalf of all Bulldogs supporters I hope said meetings are untrue. Dean Pay is doing a very sound job under trying conditions here and it is my understanding that he has the Boards full support to take our club to greater heights beyond 2020.

    I’m thinking Holbrook either ends up at the Titans from 2020, or re-commits to you blokes. The Bulldogs should be out of the equation.
    I think Dean Pay is doing a decent job. The Bulldogs are a real work in progress at the minute. Despite being at the foot of the ladder they look like a united team. They don’t get hammered in defeat. They have lost a lot of games by less than 10 points. They are just lacking a bit of strike but i think they will be better next season.
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  5. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    I think Dean Pay is doing a decent job. The Bulldogs are a real work in progress at the minute. Despite being at the foot of the ladder they look like a united team. They don’t get hammered in defeat. They have lost a lot of games by less than 10 points. They are just lacking a bit of strike but i think they will be better next season.
    Exactly. People who know football, will tell you the exact same thing. Which is why you won't hear any real criticism of Dean outside of The Kennel and the occasional journo.

    Spud Carroll praised the job Pay is doing on this afternoons edition of 'NRL Teams' on nrl.com


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  6. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    I think Dean Pay is doing a decent job. The Bulldogs are a real work in progress at the minute. Despite being at the foot of the ladder they look like a united team. They don’t get hammered in defeat. They have lost a lot of games by less than 10 points. They are just lacking a bit of strike but i think they will be better next season.
    The criticism of Pay, and it's a valid one, is that he gets a player to a level and then they stay there or go backwards. Martin and Lewis are prime examples. Pay deserved all the credit he got for getting them to NRL and how they performed when things were hot, but as soon as things went a bit cool he couldn't lift them and it's cost one of them his NRL career. You'd be hard pressed to find a player in the NRL squad that's improved because of Pay, you'd even be lucky to find one who's improved despite him.

    And players talk, it's hard to recruit when bucketloads of money is your only incentive. Because nobody's coming to Belmore to be coached by Dean Pay.

    That might be unfair but what's it matter when it's reality.

  7. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripley View Post
    The criticism of Pay, and it's a valid one, is that he gets a player to a level and then they stay there or go backwards. Martin and Lewis are prime examples. Pay deserved all the credit he got for getting them to NRL and how they performed when things were hot, but as soon as things went a bit cool he couldn't lift them and it's cost one of them his NRL career. You'd be hard pressed to find a player in the NRL squad that's improved because of Pay, you'd even be lucky to find one who's improved despite him.

    And players talk, it's hard to recruit when bucketloads of money is your only incentive. Because nobody's coming to Belmore to be coached by Dean Pay.

    That might be unfair but what's it matter when it's reality.
    Interesting. I could name quite a few examples. Jeremy Marshall King, Jack Cogger, Renouf To'omaga, Marcelo Montoya.. the list goes on. All playing improved footy compared to last year.

    On the subject of recruitment - they just signed the current New Zealand captain, and noted cleanskin - Dallin Watene Zelesniak, who has already been a revelation. They beat a number of other clubs to his signature. Dallin in fact went on record saying he wants to play for Pay and believes he is someone who can take his game to the next level under. So your recruitment chatter is an absolute myth.



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    Interesting....This Mr Invisible who says hes from The Kennel forum...is NOT the same Mr Invisible who is a Kennel moderator...wonder why he would do that??

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Good question.

    For me he would’ve failed if he doesn’t win at least one final this year. Being the best team in the country for 2 years is great but without major silverware it’s meaningless. He has to deliver this season and to be fair I think he will.
    This throws up the problem with sport. For sake of argument let’s say JH signs a new deal and we fail to win a trophy this year. Would it be right to think, maybe we should not have renewed his contract?
    Humans are more concerned with having than being.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Invisible View Post
    Andrew Hill was there for the primary purpose of progressing discussions regarding the potential signing of Luke Thompson.

    Wait, what? I was just beginning to warm to you, and you throw that grenade in. Tsk.

  11. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    This throws up the problem with sport. For sake of argument let’s say JH signs a new deal and we fail to win a trophy this year. Would it be right to think, maybe we should not have renewed his contract?
    I don’t know if I’d go that far personally but I stand by what I said about him having failed to meet his objectives if he doesn’t win a final this year.
    NEVER WRITE OFF THE SAINTS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Invisible View Post
    So your recruitment chatter is an absolute myth.
    If that were the case we'd have some other players currently playing for us. And we wouldn't have had to make up rubbish about not making an offer to a couple that left us either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    I don’t know if I’d go that far personally but I stand by what I said about him having failed to meet his objectives if he doesn’t win a final this year.

    We're even further ahead of the rest this year that I agree that should he not win at least one final, there will be serious question marks raised about his ability to have a team ready for the biggest games.

    In his defence, last season the two SF's were lost for different reasons, with the impact of the Catalans loss certainly contributing to the Wire loss. For the Catalans game we underestimated them and, when they came out the traps on fire, we panicked - and this was at the time when we all thought Barba's poor form was just a temporary dip and he'd be back at the top for the big games. For Wire, we were too conscious of not repeating the mistakes of the Catalans game and played it tight - too tight, which was to the detriment of our natural game. Sure, there was a bit of naivete on Holbrook's part in terms of keeping players fresh through the season (they did look jaded by that time), along with over-compensating in terms of our tight gameplan with the CCSF in mind, but that was the learning curve. This year he seems to have completely learned the lessons. Fingers crossed.

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    I think we will win a final this year. Not before time. My concern is that in tough knockout games old ugly habits have returned to our performances. When we lost against Warrington in the play offs last year we literally looked no different than the Saints that Cunningham coached despite being under Holbrook for that past 16 months.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripley View Post
    If that were the case we'd have some other players currently playing for us. And we wouldn't have had to make up rubbish about not making an offer to a couple that left us either.
    What's your username on The Kennel champ?

  16. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    We're even further ahead of the rest this year that I agree that should he not win at least one final, there will be serious question marks raised about his ability to have a team ready for the biggest games.

    In his defence, last season the two SF's were lost for different reasons, with the impact of the Catalans loss certainly contributing to the Wire loss. For the Catalans game we underestimated them and, when they came out the traps on fire, we panicked - and this was at the time when we all thought Barba's poor form was just a temporary dip and he'd be back at the top for the big games. For Wire, we were too conscious of not repeating the mistakes of the Catalans game and played it tight - too tight, which was to the detriment of our natural game. Sure, there was a bit of naivete on Holbrook's part in terms of keeping players fresh through the season (they did look jaded by that time), along with over-compensating in terms of our tight gameplan with the CCSF in mind, but that was the learning curve. This year he seems to have completely learned the lessons. Fingers crossed.
    I'm certain he has especially with the forward pack , look at the way he has rested them from around game 10 , even Friday we were without Tia & Paulo , it will certainly make a difference in the later stages, and fitness - have we learned in that department , it's hard not to compare where we were last year at this stage and where Warrington are now , are they looking a "bit tired" , peaked too early ? , so what happens in other areas we are definitely looking at silverware.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mancunian Saint View Post
    Holbrook has definitely learned the lessons of last season,, maybe I'm being too cocky or over confident, but I'm totally certain we'll win the challenge Cup and odds on to be in the Grand Final at least. What do other saints fans think?
    That you're being too cocky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mancunian Saint View Post
    We faded last season because there wasn't much resting of players plus holbrook admitted he played some players who were carrying knocks. This season we look so much better than the same stage last season

    Also, last season we quickly began to rely on Barba too much, and he was the fulcrum for so much of our strike plays. This season we have at least 3 players sharing that duty - and the skills are more interchangeable than it was with Barba and his freakish ability to create a yard of space from nothing. We've had to re-jig our whole attacking tactics, but the result is a lot more operating as a team.

  19. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mancunian Saint View Post
    We faded last season because there wasn't much resting of players plus holbrook admitted he played some players who were carrying knocks. This season we look so much better than the same stage last season
    At the back end of last season, James Roby should not have played . His shoulder was damaged and was only partially fit .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southstandsaint View Post
    At the back end of last season, James Roby should not have played . His shoulder was damaged and was only partially fit .
    To be fair, if he's not right and I mean 100% he doesn't need to play in our next 2 either. No disrespect but we're not stuck for options at hooker and we're not playing top class opposition. On the other side, if Holbrook thinks he needs a run out I'd be happy to see him coming off the bench.
    I did actually think to myself earlier would that be a good way of extending his career, especially the way Bentley is shaping up as I'm actually thinking he's quickly becoming the number 2 hooker, basically it would his career going full circle.

  21. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mancunian Saint View Post
    Holbrook has definitely learned the lessons of last season,, maybe I'm being too cocky or over confident, but I'm totally certain we'll win the challenge Cup and odds on to be in the Grand Final at least. What do other saints fans think?
    Its probably correct to say that Holbrook has managed the squad better this year but it means nothing when it gets to the big games. Have Warrington showed their best hand yet? If its us against them in a final will they opt for kciks at goal inside the 20m zone, will Austin and Clarke be anonymous?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Invisible View Post
    What's your username on The Kennel champ?
    I'm not on the Kennel.

  23. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    We're even further ahead of the rest this year that I agree that should he not win at least one final, there will be serious question marks raised about his ability to have a team ready for the biggest games.

    In his defence, last season the two SF's were lost for different reasons, with the impact of the Catalans loss certainly contributing to the Wire loss. For the Catalans game we underestimated them and, when they came out the traps on fire, we panicked - and this was at the time when we all thought Barba's poor form was just a temporary dip and he'd be back at the top for the big games. For Wire, we were too conscious of not repeating the mistakes of the Catalans game and played it tight - too tight, which was to the detriment of our natural game. Sure, there was a bit of naivete on Holbrook's part in terms of keeping players fresh through the season (they did look jaded by that time), along with over-compensating in terms of our tight gameplan with the CCSF in mind, but that was the learning curve. This year he seems to have completely learned the lessons. Fingers crossed.
    A good summary, the current rotation seems to indicate he has learned from last year. Also this year he has a much more rounded team, not dependant on whether or not the FB can be bothered. I do expect us to win something this year but I would not want to get rid of JH if we did not.

  24. #374
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    There’s definite signs of change from last year under Holbrook. The main issue I had with him last year was the lack of rotation through the season. Why we persisted on playing a clearly unfit Ben Barba in the lead up to the Catalans Semi-Final was mind boggling but it seems like this year the players have had more a lot more time off, so looking from the outside in, it seems lessons have been taken.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mancunian Saint View Post
    Hmmm,, a friend of mine who is a Dewsbury fan has asked me which is more of a better day out, cc final or grand final? I'd say grand final at old Trafford, what do you all think?
    I'm not sure where you are going with this?

    Challenge Cup all day. Had a season tkt for Utd for years. Old Trafford is tatty now & I don't think all that much of Manchester for a day out to be honest. I'm a Utd fan through and through but it ain't much cop as a city Manchester

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