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Thread: Ben or Lachlan ?

  1. #26
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    It's like comparing apples and oranges. Barba was capable of scoring from anywhere but as we saw he was also capable of not showing up at all and his defence at times was shocking. Coote doesn't have the pace of Barba but he adds so much to the attack and is consistent week in week out and far better in defence.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson View Post
    What are we comparing here? Now there's no doubt that Coote has been brilliant for Saints and he's now leading the league for try assists isn't he?

    But those who are suggesting that Coote is a better player/fullback than Barba, I have to disagree.

    Barba has been awarded best player in the NRL and SL in his career let's not forget. And Coote's old club planned to replace him with Barba, which tells it's own story.

    It's difficult to compare the two in their performances for St Helens, with the further reduced standard of the league, Walmsley back in the side etc.. Can you imagine Barba's stats in this years' team (31 tries, 29 assists in 29 games last year)?

    This year we've seen Coote chased down by Hastings, Naiqama chased down twice as well. We never saw that with Barba. He carried the team for a large part of last season and it wasn't just about his tries, he was up there for assists and yes Saints still had the best defence in the league too.

    He's done some terrible things off the field by all accounts, but credit where credit is due for his performances on the field.

    Regards,

    STEVO
    You obviously didn't watch the Wakey game when Toupou gave Barba a start and caught him easily.

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    You know you’re fortunate when 6 months after losing Ben Barba you can genuinely ask if you’d rather have him or the guy that replaced him and still plays for you.

    It’s early days but I think Coote could be one of best signings in super league based on the fact that nobody expected what he’s done, and nobody competed with us to get him.

  4. #29
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    Whilst I tend to think that Coote’s all round game is providing greater value to the team this year than the individual brilliance Barba brought I can’t help but think Benny would have departed with at least one winners medal last year had Walmsley stayed fit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    You obviously didn't watch the Wakey game when Toupou gave Barba a start and caught him easily.
    Belgian, Tupou is rapid, there is no doubt about that.
    Is the time you are referring to when Barba was not fit in 2017 ?

  6. #31
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    Coote 100% .
    roy litherland it's happened i told you it would

  7. #32
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    I'm yet to speak to anyone who would take BB back in exchange. That says it all.
    Benny was capable of doing things that few players could but as many have pointed out above Coote brings more to the party overall.

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    Individually going forward at least, Barba was amazing and a pleasure to watch. Problem was he offered no last line of defence and we looked for him to much, too often and kinda became a one man team. Coote is a proper team player and suits our style much better. Wer're more balanced with Coote in the team. I loved the way his cut out passes to Tommy where almost instinctive. Knew his winger would be there. Class act.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger View Post
    Belgian, Tupou is rapid, there is no doubt about that.
    Is the time you are referring to when Barba was not fit in 2017 ?
    I think being not fit was the excuse most of us made at the time. But yes it was 2017.

  10. #35
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    I'll give my answer at the end of the year. If this question was asked at this part of the season last year, hands down everyone would say Barba. Everyone was saying how good he was, how he had bought into our club and culture, how much he loves it here. He won MOS on half a season. There's still a long way to go but so far coote has been really good for us, if he finishes the season in the same form and helps us win some trophies it's an easy choice.

    Barba was a true magician, just a shame the disappearing act was also part of his set.

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    When we signed Coote, I was expecting him to be a Vievers type of player, solid, dependable, but nothing special. It looks as though he is far better than this. My only concern is that in the NRL he was a standout player about three years ago, but then faded badly, to the point were the fans were glad to see him leave. Hopefully he can maintain his current level over here, but I’ll wait another season or two before judging. But with his current form, I’d take him over Barba, even though Barba at his best last year, was maybe the most exciting player I have ever seen in the Redvee.

  12. #37
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    I reckon playing in super league has enhanced his game, he,s got more time to show his skill set. In the NRL he was fairly injury prone and apparently had to bulk up a bit to make him more durable.
    He is definitely more of a team player than Barba and any doubts he had of coming to this club or the UK dissapeared more or less from game 1. You could say Coote is very happy on and off the pitch and doesn’t have that distraction of head turning back to OZ.

  13. #38
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    We relied far too much on Barba last year at times and looked to him to save us with his X Factor. We have been far more solid and the team has benefitted, what was it the other week? 8 different try scorers?? Crazy good team spirit this year.


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    I would pick Coote, way above Barba, as he is a much better and nicer person and a far superior role model to our younger fans!

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    Quote Originally Posted by french and conlon View Post
    I would pick Coote, way above Barba, as he is a much better and nicer person and a far superior role model to our younger fans!
    To be fair Barba was a great role model to the kids when he was with us, I seem to remember him signing autographs with the Castleford and Hull younger fans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    To be fair Barba was a great role model to the kids when he was with us, I seem to remember him signing autographs with the Castleford and Hull younger fans.
    I think you've totally missed my point here!

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    IĀ’m assuming that we (ie mainly Saints fans who see the majority of games) are comparing the two players as fullbacks. Unlike you, who has concentrated solely on attacking prowess, most of us have also considered defensive contributions and assessed which of the two has provided the greater all round benefit to the team performances, hence the unanimous vote in favour of Coote.
    My last words on this topic...

    During his time in the NRL, Barba was not only awarded best player, but also best full back (as he did in our competition).

    Coote never won either in his time in the NRL. Now he may go on to win best full back in SL this year (which he deserves at this point), but ask yourself this, if both were playing in the league right now, who would scoop the award? I know who I'd have my money on to win that accolade.

    Why? Because like every team in the NRL demands, the foremost attribute that is looked for in a modern day full back is 'attacking prowess' and hence why Coote is playing in SL. Coote is a very good player and very good full back, especially in SL- it has to be said he is doing it in the ever declining quality of SL and in this Saints side, that is much stronger than the rest of the league.

    In 2012, when Barba won full back of the year, best player and was also top try scorer in the NRL, he produced some of the best stuff I've ever seen and that's why I've had to come in on this and provide a bit of balance- maybe watch with the sound turned off

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuNXDlGk-jA

    It's also worth remembering what he did in a Saints shirt, because its easy to forget as time goes by.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awlqHfLsbrI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LWYyIAVqeM

    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    You obviously didn't watch the Wakey game when Toupou gave Barba a start and caught him easily.
    I don't remember that. I recall when Tupou took him on the outside and went the length of the field. And you'd expect that from an outside back. I think you know the point I've made.

    Regards,

    STEVO
    Last edited by Mike Stephenson; 17th June 2019 at 23:43.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by french and conlon View Post
    I think you've totally missed my point here!
    I,m not sure what your point is perhaps you can be a bit more specific, to add to what I have already mentioned Barba worked well with our younger players and did some community work.

    His time here doesn’t reflect that lesser nice person and role model, I don’t really know about Coote off the pitch other than he is an excellent team player and that attribute has made us stronger this season.
    Last edited by STIDDY; 18th June 2019 at 08:35.

  19. #44
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    I think all of us worried about what we would lose in an attacking sense when BB left, so on that note does anyone know how we match up to last season in terms of our points scored?

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    What's done is done re Ben Barba, but I would have loved him playing at full back this term. Also full marks to Coote for his performance thus far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A.O.88 View Post
    I think all of us worried about what we would lose in an attacking sense when BB left, so on that note does anyone know how we match up to last season in terms of our points scored?
    We are on course to beating last seasons attacking stats, last season 157 tries over 30 games around 5 trys a match, this season 111 tries over 18 games around 6 tries a match, try assists is similar. Tackle busts ratio per game is almost identical.

    Last season Ben Barba was averaging nearly 2 tries and 1.5 try assists for the first 12 games, Coote is averaging 0.6 tries and 1 try assist for his 18 games, Lomax/Fages/Richardson are taking up the slack averaging 1 try assist a game.

    The biggest difference is that tries scored are obviously distributed across all our backline as we see our right hand edge being more productive in that department, I think Coote and Richardson (short term) had an influence on that attack balance.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpio Rising View Post
    Whilst I tend to think that Coote’s all round game is providing greater value to the team this year than the individual brilliance Barba brought I can’t help but think Benny would have departed with at least one winners medal last year had Walmsley stayed fit.
    That’s a good point well made. I’m not sure Catalans game plan in the CC semi would have paid off with Walmsley in the team and To be fair, we only narrowly lost to Wire in that SL semi without him.


    I notice no rumors around Coote or “he’s going home” songs though....
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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson View Post
    My last words on this topic...

    During his time in the NRL, Barba was not only awarded best player, but also best full back (as he did in our competition).

    Coote never won either in his time in the NRL. Now he may go on to win best full back in SL this year (which he deserves at this point), but ask yourself this, if both were playing in the league right now, who would scoop the award? I know who I'd have my money on to win that accolade.

    Why? Because like every team in the NRL demands, the foremost attribute that is looked for in a modern day full back is 'attacking prowess' and hence why Coote is playing in SL. Coote is a very good player and very good full back, especially in SL- it has to be said he is doing it in the ever declining quality of SL and in this Saints side, that is much stronger than the rest of the league.

    In 2012, when Barba won full back of the year, best player and was also top try scorer in the NRL, he produced some of the best stuff I've ever seen and that's why I've had to come in on this and provide a bit of balance- maybe watch with the sound turned off

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuNXDlGk-jA

    It's also worth remembering what he did in a Saints shirt, because its easy to forget as time goes by.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awlqHfLsbrI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LWYyIAVqeM



    I don't remember that. I recall when Tupou took him on the outside and went the length of the field. And you'd expect that from an outside back. I think you know the point I've made.

    Regards,

    STEVO


    Nobody's questioning Barba's individual ability - indeed most contributors to the thread have made that exact point.

    The question is who is best for the team as a whole, and the pretty unanimous conclusion is that it's Coote.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson View Post
    My last words on this topic...

    During his time in the NRL, Barba was not only awarded best player, but also best full back (as he did in our competition).

    Coote never won either in his time in the NRL. Now he may go on to win best full back in SL this year (which he deserves at this point), but ask yourself this, if both were playing in the league right now, who would scoop the award? I know who I'd have my money on to win that accolade.

    Why? Because like every team in the NRL demands, the foremost attribute that is looked for in a modern day full back is 'attacking prowess' and hence why Coote is playing in SL. Coote is a very good player and very good full back, especially in SL- it has to be said he is doing it in the ever declining quality of SL and in this Saints side, that is much stronger than the rest of the league.

    In 2012, when Barba won full back of the year, best player and was also top try scorer in the NRL, he produced some of the best stuff I've ever seen and that's why I've had to come in on this and provide a bit of balance- maybe watch with the sound turned off

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuNXDlGk-jA

    It's also worth remembering what he did in a Saints shirt, because its easy to forget as time goes by.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awlqHfLsbrI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LWYyIAVqeM



    I don't remember that. I recall when Tupou took him on the outside and went the length of the field. And you'd expect that from an outside back. I think you know the point I've made.

    Regards,

    STEVO
    The time I am referring to Barba had the ball in the clear, and Toupou tracked back and caught him. I don't think anyone doubts that Barba was a brilliant individual in attack, but couldn't defend, and did not complement Saints as much as Coote does. That's not to say Barba may not the better in a different team, but Coote brought what we needed.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I,m not sure what your point is perhaps you can be a bit more specific, to add to what I have already mentioned Barba worked well with our younger players and did some community work.

    His time here doesn’t reflect that lesser nice person and role model, I don’t really know about Coote off the pitch other than he is an excellent team player and that attribute has made us stronger this season.
    No problem , apologies!
    What I was trying to say is that we don't just pride ourselves on the quality of player we have but also the quality of
    People we have!

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