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Thread: Meltdown in Pie land

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Buddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Which of their players would you swap for any of our 1st 13?

    Possibly consider Williams, but he's off to Oz anyway.
    I think Bullock is decent but in terms of 1- 13 there are non you'd rather have

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Which of their players would you swap for any of our 1st 13?

    Possibly consider Williams, but he's off to Oz anyway.

    None spring to mind, which is why I said we are way ahead of them

    But my point still stands, two good signing s and they will be up there

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Which of their players would you swap for any of our 1st 13?

    Possibly consider Williams, but he's off to Oz anyway.
    Wouldn't bother with Williams really, obsessed with kicking..

    Classic example was at Anfield, where he kicks on the second tackle 20m out to get a repeat set?!

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Which of their players would you swap for any of our 1st 13?

    Possibly consider Williams, but he's off to Oz anyway.
    Prefer Lomax to Williams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Prefer Lomax to Williams.
    Not even debatable. Far better player

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    They can’t be that far off, won the main competition and only lost Bateman and the coach. For all the thoughts that we are miles ahead we have won nothing yet. The league is like F1 qualifying, improves your chances but no guarantees. They didn’t look great last year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffs View Post
    They can’t be that far off, won the main competition and only lost Bateman and the coach. For all the thoughts that we are miles ahead we have won nothing yet. The league is like F1 qualifying, improves your chances but no guarantees. They didn’t look great last year.
    So their best player? And clearly the man who knew how to work with them.
    They also lost Sutton but he wasn’t exactly great over here.
    Other teams have improved as well.

    I agree - they played crap most of last season and have all of this, just because they won a few games at the end of last year to win the Grand Final doesn’t mean they are/were best in the league. Over the past two seasons Saints are way ahead on performance and must be on win percentage. Hopefully we can cap it off this year with a couple of trophies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reliable sauce View Post
    So their best player? And clearly the man who knew how to work with them.
    They also lost Sutton but he wasn’t exactly great over here.
    Other teams have improved as well.

    I agree - they played crap most of last season and have all of this, just because they won a few games at the end of last year to win the Grand Final doesn’t mean they are/were best in the league. Over the past two seasons Saints are way ahead on performance and must be on win percentage. Hopefully we can cap it off this year with a couple of trophies.
    Sam Tomkins as well. They’ve missed him more than they thought they would - he did a lot of the creative and game management work that Williams is proving himself incapable of handling on his own.

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    So a couple of good signings then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    I think Bullock is decent but in terms of 1- 13 there are non you'd rather have

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    Bullock has certainly been on of there better ones, but there are none of our starting props I would you swap for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    Sam Tomkins as well. Theyve missed him more than they thought they would - he did a lot of the creative and game management work that Williams is proving himself incapable of handling on his own.
    They signed Hardaker who like him or not is a top player. That being said hes yet to impress me once in a Wigan shirt. Im not sure if its the players hes with or something else is going on behind scenes but hes been average at best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffs View Post
    They can’t be that far off, won the main competition and only lost Bateman and the coach. For all the thoughts that we are miles ahead we have won nothing yet. The league is like F1 qualifying, improves your chances but no guarantees. They didn’t look great last year.
    You’re right but that’s more the fault of the system. The league table doesn’t lie, they are really average and it just shows what Wane did in terms of getting every ounce out of them

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffs View Post
    So a couple of good signings then?
    A couple of signings away from being a competitive team in 2016.

    They finished 6th in 2017, and whilst they used the departures to great effect in 2018 to spur the team on, and by announcing it all early in the year it got the emotional turmoil out of the way before the real games began. Bit like Man Utd 2013, there was a huge amount of problems, but were propelled on far beyond their capability.

    Players like Tony Clubb, Isa, Sarginson were never great in the first place and age hasn’t made them better, and SOL and TL whilst once great have been forced to do too much for too long. All of this adds up to taking Wigan’s greatest strength - their ability to parachute kids in and make them look like world beaters- and completely erodes it. Wigan are 6/7 signings away from being competitive (right centre, 6,7,8,9,10,12,13) and with 4 wingers, 2 left backrowers and loads of sentimentality and deadwood, absolutely no capability to sign them. That’s even before you get to the availability in the market, the culture these new signings could bring, or the managements desire or otherwise to commit to a massive restructure.

    All that being said, Wigan have been the champions of grid culture over the last 5-10 years - I’m glad to see more fluid dynamic styles coming back in to vogue - even if Wigan signed the entire Saints team, they would see KC style performances without adapting

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    That’s even before you get to the availability in the market, the culture these new signings could bring, or the managements desire or otherwise to commit to a massive restructure.
    Or the availability of any spare cash

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    I hope you are right, with the problems at Leeds it should be 6 or 7 CC and GF wins over the next decade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A.O.88 View Post
    They signed Hardaker who like him or not is a top player. That being said hes yet to impress me once in a Wigan shirt. Im not sure if its the players hes with or something else is going on behind scenes but hes been average at best.
    Hes a very good player but they havent replaced like for like. Tomkins did a lot of stuff for them that nobody is doing now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffs View Post
    I hope you are right, with the problems at Leeds it should be 6 or 7 CC and GF wins over the next decade.
    There certainly appears to be a changing off the guard at the moment, Warrington seem determined to buy their way to a championship. I mean, they have been for over a decade now, but you have to figure they’re getting better at it. Hull and Catalans both seem capable of they can ever sort out their consistency problems, and both have the potential to match Leeds or Wigan in size. Both Wigan and Leeds fans over the last year have cried the sport can’t survive without them, I disagree.

    Nothings a foregone conclusion, but Saints do have a head start on those three in that we don’t have the “only the big four can win a GF” hoodoo doesn’t apply to us, and we’re playing some fantastic rugby. We have also done an incredible job tying up our talent for the next few years and will have to continue to do that, as well as finding ways to keep improving year on year. If we rest on our laurels our head start won’t mean much.

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    Default Meltdown in Pie land

    I wouldnt get too excited yet. For all its great to mock them this season, theyve gone close against Warrington twice this season now with half a team at times. If we are using Warrington as a yardstick with us, then they arent as far away as we think, especially with a full team.

    Im also hearing that a big signing if not two isnt too far away so its clear that they are keeping their powder dry.

    We are head and shoulders the best team in the comp but then we were last season too. We need to win something this season to back that up. As a Utd fan Ive enjoyed winding Liverpool fans up about Klopp being a serial loser with his record in Finals. Despite him being a good coach he needed to win something and he now has. No longer can I say that.

    Holbrook is in the same boat. Hes been nothing short of brilliant for us but if we dont win anything this season then youd have to say hes a failure. Fine lines, so for me lets not worry about other teams or mock, lets concentrate on winning our first meaningful trophy in 5 years.


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    Last edited by Reacher; 9th June 2019 at 06:59.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    I wouldn’t get too excited yet. For all it’s great to mock them this season, they’ve gone close against Warrington twice this season now with half a team at times. If we are using Warrington as a yardstick with us, then they aren’t as far away as we think, especially with a full team.

    I’m also hearing that a big signing if not two isn’t too far away so it’s clear that they are keeping their powder dry.

    We are head and shoulders the best team in the comp but then we were last season too. We need to win something this season to back that up. As a Utd fan I’ve enjoyed winding Liverpool fans up about Klopp being a serial loser with his record in Finals. Despite him being a good coach he needed to win something and he now has. No longer can I say that.

    Holbrook is in the same boat. He’s been nothing short of brilliant for us but if we don’t win anything this season then you’d have to say he’s a failure. Fine lines so for me let’s not worry about other teams or mock, let’s concentrate on winning our first meaningful trophy in 5 years.


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    Great post

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    Quote Originally Posted by The frenchman View Post
    Great post
    Seconded !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    I wouldn’t get too excited yet. For all it’s great to mock them this season, they’ve gone close against Warrington twice this season now with half a team at times. If we are using Warrington as a yardstick with us, then they aren’t as far away as we think, especially with a full team.

    I’m also hearing that a big signing if not two isn’t too far away so it’s clear that they are keeping their powder dry.

    We are head and shoulders the best team in the comp but then we were last season too. We need to win something this season to back that up. As a Utd fan I’ve enjoyed winding Liverpool fans up about Klopp being a serial loser with his record in Finals. Despite him being a good coach he needed to win something and he now has. No longer can I say that.

    Holbrook is in the same boat. He’s been nothing short of brilliant for us but if we don’t win anything this season then you’d have to say he’s a failure. Fine lines, so for me let’s not worry about other teams or mock, let’s concentrate on winning our first meaningful trophy in 5 years.


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    But they've also been dire on several occasions, including against London and Huddersfield. I agree with what MS said, they basically need Help in most positions bar wingers and full back. Brave defeats to Warrington are a false positive,they are in trouble.

    Where I think your right is the need for Saints to win big this year. Its such a golden opportunity as most big teams are so poor and it wont stay that way forever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chalfie View Post
    Seconded !
    Thirded

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    Quote Originally Posted by St. Christopher View Post
    Thirded
    Forthded

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    I wouldnt get too excited yet. For all its great to mock them this season, theyve gone close against Warrington twice this season now with half a team at times. If we are using Warrington as a yardstick with us, then they arent as far away as we think, especially with a full team.

    Im also hearing that a big signing if not two isnt too far away so its clear that they are keeping their powder dry.

    We are head and shoulders the best team in the comp but then we were last season too. We need to win something this season to back that up. As a Utd fan Ive enjoyed winding Liverpool fans up about Klopp being a serial loser with his record in Finals. Despite him being a good coach he needed to win something and he now has. No longer can I say that.

    Holbrook is in the same boat. Hes been nothing short of brilliant for us but if we dont win anything this season then youd have to say hes a failure. Fine lines, so for me lets not worry about other teams or mock, lets concentrate on winning our first meaningful trophy in 5 years.


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    Wigan put up against there rivals on most occasions with or without a full strength team out. Im not convinced that the players they are missing are likely to make that significant impact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    But they've also been dire on several occasions, including against London and Huddersfield. I agree with what MS said, they basically need Help in most positions bar wingers and full back. Brave defeats to Warrington are a false positive,they are in trouble.

    Where I think your right is the need for Saints to win big this year. Its such a golden opportunity as most big teams are so poor and it wont stay that way forever.
    I agree Wigan are a right mess this season. They look similar to what we did under KC, losing experienced players and habe replaced them with younger players and average players from other clubs. Lam was dealt a bad hand with the squad he inherited but he's also doing a pretty poor job. Some of his comments in the press are very reminiscent of what KC was saying. I think their biggest signing would be a new coach if they keep Lam for another few years they'll win nothing.

    But I do agree that we have to capitalise and win trophies this season and probably next season aswell. We have a settled side, stability and a good coach. Apart from Warrington, every other side looks average or poor this season.
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