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  1. #1
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    Default Saints further strengthen balance sheet

    https://www.saintsrlfc.com/2019/06/0...-and-finances/

    As a shareholders got this information in the post today.

    Sounds good for the long-term - loans conversation to shares with McManus & Colman owning a much bigger percentage.

    Or is it just spin?

    Thoughts of someone with finance background would be appreciated.

    No need for those from over the lump to claim that we are bankrupt whilst their rent arrangements are the future.....

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    Thanks Eamonn.

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    I don’t think even Rogues can spin this negatively. The loans that the club had have been ‘paid off’ as shares in the club. The club is debt free.

    Of course any profit from now on could be paid to shareholders but as long as the business is sustainable this will not be an issue, in fact if it happens regularly and the club remains profitable, it will make the club an attractive investment.

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    To put some actual figures out there. It is a restructuring proposal to convert £9,400,000 of Directors' Secured Loans into 940,000 New Shares.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saint87 View Post
    To put some actual figures out there. It is a restructuring proposal to convert £9,400,000 of Directors' Secured Loans into 940,000 New Shares.
    So that’s 1000 a share. Which they can sell if they want but they will want their investment to succeed. Nothing but good news.

    But we will still be called the Skints by some people

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    So that’s 1000 a share. Which they can sell if they want but they will want their investment to succeed. Nothing but good news.

    But we will still be called the Skints by some people
    Think it's actually £10 a share - that's what my documents say anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saint87 View Post
    To put some actual figures out there. It is a restructuring proposal to convert £9,400,000 of Directors' Secured Loans into 940,000 New Shares.
    I,m assuming thats converting a liability to an investment commodity..

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    I would say it’s good news. Converting liabilities such as loans into owners equity should help us with cash flow (liquidity) and we can pay a dividend only where appropriate whereas loans pretty much have to be paid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I,m assuming thats converting a liability to an investment commodity..

    In reality it's fairly immaterial, really. The terms of the loan were such that there were no mandatory repayments or interest (IIRC). I suppose it does solidify the investments of EMc and, more especially, Mike Coleman.

    The input of these two cannot be underestimated. They deserve legendary status with the club as much as any of the players. First rescued us from financial uncertainty, then funded the best RL stadium in the country, have rebuilt our status as the best team in SL after a painful and protracted rebuilding process following the retirement of some great players (and yes, they had to learn the hard way on a number of occasions and mistakes were made), and now have secured our future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    I don’t think even Rogues can spin this negatively. The loans that the club had have been ‘paid off’ as shares in the club. The club is debt free.

    Of course any profit from now on could be paid to shareholders but as long as the business is sustainable this will not be an issue, in fact if it happens regularly and the club remains profitable, it will make the club an attractive investment.
    It does appear to be excellent news for the future of the club, as it is debt free, and in due course, I hope a long time off, the shares can be sold off in smaller parcels to future investors in the club, so instead of relying on two owners, who as others have said have done wonders for the club, perhaps other local benefactors can take up the mantle and continue the success. However, it also needs bums on seats and yesterday's attendance was poor. Hands up the people on here who did not go, just because it was on television. The players can't hear you in your living room or the pub, they can only hear you on the terraces.
    Last edited by Woolyback; 2nd June 2019 at 09:48.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woolyback View Post
    It does appear to be excellent news for the future of the club, as it is debt free, and in due course, I hope a long time off, the shares can be sold off in smaller parcels to future investors in the club, so instead of relying on two owners, who as others have said have done wonders for the club, perhaps other local benefactors can take up the mantle and continue the success. However, it also needs bums on seats and yesterday's attendance was poor. Hands up the people on here who did not go, just because it was on television. The players can't hear you in your living room or the pub, they can only hear you on the terraces.
    Attendances at Challenge Cup games have been low for a number of years now - it’s not just an issue for Saints it’s an issue for the game as a whole. I haven’t been able to find the attendance figures for the two previous quarter finals involving the two Hull sides but I bet ours was the biggest?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woolyback View Post
    It does appear to be excellent news for the future of the club, as it is debt free, and in due course, I hope a long time off, the shares can be sold off in smaller parcels to future investors in the club, so instead of relying on two owners, who as others have said have done wonders for the club, perhaps other local benefactors can take up the mantle and continue the success. However, it also needs bums on seats and yesterday's attendance was poor. Hands up the people on here who did not go, just because it was on television. The players can't hear you in your living room or the pub, they can only hear you on the terraces.
    It's a fair call I think.

    You can make all the excuses you want but people should get off their backsides & go.

    And yeah last week, I didn't go and probably could have made it in the end. So hands up for last week but it was a must win yesterday and I made sure I went.

    I don't know what the people of this town want at all. We might not win anything, which would be hard to take but we are great to watch.

    If I was a player I would be pretty unhappy with the turnout from the supporters yesterday.

    I've had a fair few debates with Upside on the marketing and promotion of the sport. I got home last night & I thought you know what, Upside is right. You can't do much more when the fans aren't bothered.

    And just to clarify, I have been guilty of this apathy too. I've picked my matches at times. If that's the mentality of thousands of others, then the sport will never progress

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woolyback View Post
    However, it also needs bums on seats and yesterday's attendance was poor. Hands up the people on here who did not go, just because it was on television. The players can't hear you in your living room or the pub, they can only hear you on the terraces.
    CC Games make little difference to the clubs finances when it comes to bums on seats. The RFL sets ticket prices and they also take the lions share of the profit from ticket sales. The only area the club loses out at cup games is on extras from food & drink. Its more important from a financial point of view that we get get good crowds at league games as the club keeps 100% of the ticket sales.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Toppy View Post
    CC Games make little difference to the clubs finances when it comes to bums on seats. The RFL sets ticket prices and they also take the lions share of the profit from ticket sales. The only area the club loses out at cup games is on extras from food & drink. Its more important from a financial point of view that we get get good crowds at league games as the club keeps 100% of the ticket sales.
    Do the RFL set the ticket prices? Huddersfield were charging a tenner for our game in the last round and the credit was going to Huddersfield rather than the RFL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    I don’t think even Rogues can spin this negatively. The loans that the club had have been ‘paid off’ as shares in the club. The club is debt free.

    Of course any profit from now on could be paid to shareholders but as long as the business is sustainable this will not be an issue, in fact if it happens regularly and the club remains profitable, it will make the club an attractive investment.
    I couldn’t give a toss what Rogues thinks any road.
    screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies

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    It wouldn't shock me if Wigan end up sharing the Leigh Sporting Village and the Wigan Council gifts it to the two clubs. Robin Park would cost a fortune to convert into even a twelve thousand capacity stadium. Your lease is only as strong as your ability to pay your rent. Seriously they could even end up at The Reebok. I am not laughing at Wigan as a club as I think they and the majority of fans are a bit like ourselves really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprus View Post
    It wouldn't shock me if Wigan end up sharing the Leigh Sporting Village and the Wigan Council gifts it to the two clubs. Robin Park would cost a fortune to convert into even a twelve thousand capacity stadium. Your lease is only as strong as your ability to pay your rent. Seriously they could even end up at The Reebok. I am not laughing at Wigan as a club as I think they and the majority of fans are a bit like ourselves really.
    They've got a better class of fans than that lot from Warrington that's for sure.

    But they are losing money hand over fist & it isn't good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprus View Post
    It wouldn't shock me if Wigan end up sharing the Leigh Sporting Village and the Wigan Council gifts it to the two clubs. Robin Park would cost a fortune to convert into even a twelve thousand capacity stadium. Your lease is only as strong as your ability to pay your rent. Seriously they could even end up at The Reebok. I am not laughing at Wigan as a club as I think they and the majority of fans are a bit like ourselves really.
    Homelessness is a serious issue and certainly no laughing matter.








    Except in this case

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    I wouldn’t swap our set up for anyone else’s in super league.

    We will be forever grateful to our chairman and his associates.


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    Quote Originally Posted by undertheradar View Post
    I wouldn’t swap our set up for anyone else’s in super league.

    We will be forever grateful to our chairman and his associates.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


    I will second that

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    From a finance background it's a mix of two things:

    1) A show of long term commitment to the club and also a view that it will grow and prosper going forward (after all equity is at risk of overall club performance, whereas the loans were being repaid and carrying interest).

    2) It's a massive boost to the financial underpinnings of the club, as no longer do those loans (plus interest) have to be repaid on a (presumably monthly) basis - these can often be a significant drain on the club, after all there's no ongoing benefit to the club of those loan funds going out (other than paying for wages, or investing in facilities etc).

    It secures the future and frees up cash flow that can be utilised for stuff with direct, specific benefit to the club, such as the upcoming reserve grade for Super League (ex Catalans) - there's a real chance that could prove a significant burden on many clubs, especially if the gate receipts stay very low for those games (or if the matches remain as curtain-raisers to the main event).

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    It is a great contribution from our main investors. Possibly showing faith in the club making future profits, but more likely an endowment to benefit the club long term.

    The players and coaches get the sporting glory but this is a true investment in a business that is incredibly high risk as Leeds are finding out this year and as other clubs have found out in the past.

    The millions poured into the club may not carry the glamour of a koucash offering £1m to a specific celebrity player, but it is a bigger and more substantial gesture and supports a club long term.

    Credit to them as given the debt we were in we could easily have fallen into the cas or wakey class of clubs unable to get out of our older ground and make a new start.

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    It was a poor crowd yesterday but don’t forget how many Saints fans were in the Kop last weekend. For many I suspect it will have been a financial choice between two events that don’t come under the membership.

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    In school half term with many people away.

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    When it was changed to later in the season and the most publicity given to the Sky final people started to loose interest , if things don't need changing then don't.

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