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Thread: 19 Man Squad v Salford - NO ROBY

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Totally agree, whilst others criticise our defence we must give a lot of respect to Salfords attack and they didn't cough up the ball too much with silly errors. I think what we are seeing now is a little bit of inconsistency from our understudies, Lees-Ashworth-Smith-Costello are "creaking' a bit we can't expect them to have reasonably good games week in week out, if we had Percival, Thompson, Roby, Naiqama and LMS playing yesterday I don't think we would have conceded 30 points.

    We must also come to a point when we perhaps need to introduce Richardson for a spell, Lomax is taking a few knocks every game now so perhaps a couple of games rest similar to Roby might pay dividends towards the back end of the season.
    I think that's spot on. The young guns have done brilliantly at times, but it's just a fact of life that they haven't developed the consistency yet, which comes with experience. The game time they're getting will be doing wonders for their development though. I think Justin's managing of it is excellent and part of why I he's such a brilliant coach imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The.Reverand View Post
    I have to admit to not being entertained for a majority of that game from a Saints fan point of view. Neither coach can be happy with the performances tonight.
    Going off your posts I bet the first 20 and the last 20 were really difficult for you to take. Before the comeback did you have the post about how bad we are primed and ready to go?

    For me that game was fascinating the way momentum shifted back and forth. The first try by Salford I thought they caught us napping. Then the next 2 were lucky scores imo. That got their tales up and they really kicked on when we started to rotate players. I always knew we would comeback but I'll be honest I didn't think we would catch them. Yes we had some bad patches with poor defence but don't forget we had Thompson, roby, LMS, Percival and Kev in the stands. Then walmsley off the field, Bentley in at 9 (who's never a 9) and makinson playing centre which didn't help the start of sets. Fair play to Salford who made the most of it. What was really pleasing was the attitude to win the game, you can't be red hot every single week. What I am concerned about is performing when it matters. We've built a lead up and shown what we can do this year. Half a scratchy game against a decent Salford side when we've got a few of our best players sat in the stands doesn't really bother me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reliable sauce View Post
    Your posts do bemuse me.
    You hope Fages doesn’t sign a new contract? He’s been brilliant this season.
    Paulo played well again when he came on and Amor also, he was much better than Ashworth who seems to be out of sorts at the minute, do you want to get rid of him too?
    The feeling is mutual. Fages being brilliant is pushing it but I don’t have a problem with his performances, in fact I even said he’s doing well. My problem is we have someone who isn’t a scrum half playing there and as a result our last tackle plays are generally rubbish and our game management is poor. We’re having to rely on Coote to kick more often than not which is not how it should be given he doesn’t have a natural kicking game either. Lomax and Fages are too similar to be playing together and Fages leaving would give us space on the cap to sign a proper scrum half. That last sentence is rubbish, firstly I’m hardly judging Amor on one game and secondly Amor stats are 39 metres off 7 carries which is disgraceful and Ashworths are 42 metres off 7 carries. Not sure how Amor ‘was much better’. Lees also had a really poor game. Thankfully we have Walmsley and the sooner LMS and Thompson are back the better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drake920 View Post
    Haha you don’t half post some rubbish on here, you’ll be campaigning for Richardson to be back in next week. Fages has been one of our best all season, apart from that bad game against Hudds last week where he certainly wasn’t alone.
    Another 2 try assists to his name last night, 2 clean breaks 5 tackle busts 21 tackles without really doing anything wrong. Played far better than Lomax last did last night, who has also been one of our best this year. Defence was the issue last night, we shouldn’t be conceding 30 points against Salford no mater how well they played. The Lui try when he went over untouched from the scrum summed it up. Costello wasn’t great defensively last night and will need to improve that area of his game IMO
    Where have I said he played poorly?

    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    We are missing Thommo and LMS when Walmsley is off the pitch.

    Winning ugly when the chips are down is the sign of a championship team though...
    You mustn’t have watched last season then. We must have won about 8 games with ugly performances and it all ended in tears. Hopefully the current run of winning ugly is down to having players missing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintH517 View Post
    The feeling is mutual. Fages being brilliant is pushing it but I don’t have a problem with his performances, in fact I even said he’s doing well. My problem is we have someone who isn’t a scrum half playing there and as a result our last tackle plays are generally rubbish and our game management is poor. We’re having to rely on Coote to kick more often than not which is not how it should be given he doesn’t have a natural kicking game either. Lomax and Fages are too similar to be playing together and Fages leaving would give us space on the cap to sign a proper scrum half. That last sentence is rubbish, firstly I’m hardly judging Amor on one game and secondly Amor stats are 39 metres off 7 carries which is disgraceful and Ashworths are 42 metres off 7 carries. Not sure how Amor ‘was much better’. Lees also had a really poor game. Thankfully we have Walmsley and the sooner LMS and Thompson are back the better.


    Hmmm right ok so you don't think Fages is playing poorly, we're top of the league by a distance, through to the next round of the cup, currently comfortably the best side in the league, Theo right up at the top of the Try Assists chart along with Coote & Lomax, been one of our best all year but you want to get rid of him and sign someone else in because he can't kick on the last and he's too similar to Lomax, who has also been one of our best?

    Excellent logic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drake920 View Post
    Hmmm right ok so you don't think Fages is playing poorly, we're top of the league by a distance, through to the next round of the cup, currently comfortably the best side in the league, Theo right up at the top of the Try Assists chart along with Coote & Lomax, been one of our best all year but you want to get rid of him and sign someone else in because he can't kick on the last and he's too similar to Lomax, who has also been one of our best?

    Excellent logic.
    You could literally have posted the same thing last season but just have put Barba and Richardson in and look how that ended. And yes I agree, wanting to sign a scrum half who can kick is excellent logic seeing as though it’s the main job of a scrum half.

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    Even bigger win with Hull pulling off a result against Warrington, 6 points clear of 2nd, 10 points clear of 3rd at the half way point!

    Just need Catalans to finish off the weekend!

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    Even bigger win with Hull pulling off a result against Warrington, 6 points clear of 2nd, 10 points clear of 3rd at the half way point!

    Just need Catalans to finish off the weekend!
    Looking good at the moment. Hull are coming good now just in time for the CC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintH517 View Post
    You could literally have posted the same thing last season but just have put Barba and Richardson in and look how that ended. And yes I agree, wanting to sign a scrum half who can kick is excellent logic seeing as though it’s the main job of a scrum half.

    Ok so if it happened last year that means it will happen again this year does it?
    I’d argue setting up tries and being a playmaker was the main job of a scrum half, something Fages has excelled at this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    That only mattered in the last 15 minutes when he went back to first receiver. My big bug bear with Fages at the moment is he keeps drifting out to the 2nd/ 3rd receiver position giving no space or time to the players outside him. Sometimes it works (like Makinsons first try) but not as often as with Lomax in that position (who admittedly had a quiet game last night) - but it’s far more controlled and repeatable when he doesn’t (Makinsons second try, even Cootes third try).

    We need someone with a better kicking game on the pitch (at times last night as Salford scores their 5 unanswered tries we were desperate for a Danny Richardson kick off special to change up the flow and momentum imo), and someone who isn’t worried about their highlights reel and happy to do the unglamorous first receiver position to move around the park in a more organised way. The answer this year for that role is Danny Richardson.

    It will be interesting to see 6. Fages 7. Richardson if Lomax has picked up a knock.
    Sorry Richardson aint in the same ball park as Fages. His kicking game is overated, his defence is scratchy l, his stupid last play options still frustrate and his subbuteo esque refusal to take on the line put Fages a mile ahead of him. Should be nowhere near Fages’ position

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drake920 View Post
    Ok so if it happened last year that means it will happen again this year does it?
    I’d argue setting up tries and being a playmaker was the main job of a scrum half, something Fages has excelled at this year.
    I never said that but it could quite easily happen as there are a lot of similarities between this season and last season. Whether it’s the main job or not it doesn’t matter, it’s one of the main jobs of a scrum half at least and Fages is incapable of doing it. We currently don’t have one player who is a natural kicker out of hand, which is a massive weakness, I’m struggling to see what is controversial about wanting a scrum half who can do one of the main jobs of that position.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Sorry Richardson aint in the same ball park as Fages. His kicking game is overated, his defence is scratchy l, his stupid last play options still frustrate and his subbuteo esque refusal to take on the line put Fages a mile ahead of him. Should be nowhere near Fages’ position
    And yet we scored 150 points in his last three games in the team.

    Richardson’s kicking overrated? Putting that aside, it’s still significantly better than anything we have on the pitch at the moment. Coote has put it out on the full twice in recent weeks, and whilst I think he’s a great second option to keep teams guessing, he’s not a go to kicker. That’s before you get into place kicking/ drop kicks which we have seen from Richardson as his strength - at a deadlocked game, he’s the one you want on the pitch taking the kick from halfway/ dropgoal.

    Defence is scratchy? Fages was run over last night from Jones, and Joe Wardle the week before. If Richardson’s kicking game is overrated, Fages defence definitely is. That’s before we get to the main point; you don’t choose your halfback based on defence! Otherwise Mark Flanagan has been the best half back we’ve had in the last decade!

    Refusing to take on the line? a) see my first sentence and b) this isn’t the role we need! Taking on the line is the role of the 2nd/3rd receiver - the 1st receiver role sets the defence to create space on the outside and guide the team over the park.

    Fages is a very capable standoff, who is playing the standoff role. The problem he has is that Lomax is a better standoff, and the team are missing a scrum half as a result. That’s not to take anything away from Fages as he’s a good player, but it would be naive to not recognise the gap that creates in our game.

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    Agree tbh. Fages been excellent generally but think Richardson would be a better option. Furthermore an even better scrum half would be the pivotal signing next year. Fages and Lomax too similar

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintH517 View Post
    I never said that but it could quite easily happen as there are a lot of similarities between this season and last season. Whether it’s the main job or not it doesn’t matter, it’s one of the main jobs of a scrum half at least and Fages is incapable of doing it. We currently don’t have one player who is a natural kicker out of hand, which is a massive weakness, I’m struggling to see what is controversial about wanting a scrum half who can do one of the main jobs of that position.
    I agree mate , altho' we are top of the league table we need a top class scrum half & another really big forward . For me DR's only strength is his goal-kicking . As I have posted before , I reckon we are too lightweight & try to make up for it by playing far too quickly resulting in a lot of dropped passes . But if we rectified these few faults it would be unfair on the rest of Super League , we would become S/L's Man. City without their money of course .

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Sorry Richardson aint in the same ball park as Fages. His kicking game is overated, his defence is scratchy l, his stupid last play options still frustrate and his subbuteo esque refusal to take on the line put Fages a mile ahead of him. Should be nowhere near Fages’ position
    You never ever sign a scrum half based on there defensive attribute (see Footnote) its all about set plays, passing quality, attack kicking and if you can kick field goals then thats a bonus. Look at all the scrum halves in super league most of them are poor defenders and are hidden away most of the time to reduce the liability.

    Fages is not a natural half back but is an excellent gritty utility player which is a great asset but can he run the team for 80 mins at the moment. Luckily we have some decent pivots to help him to make it a real team effort.

    Footnote: Hastings on the Friday night missed 7 tackles, Austin yesterday missed 8 tackles, Myler on the Thursday night missed 6 tackles, Williams yesterday missed 7 tackles, Miller yesterday missed 8 tackles.
    Last edited by STIDDY; 19th May 2019 at 09:36.

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    I think fages is a natural modern day half back

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    this isn’t the role we need! Taking on the line is the role of the 2nd/3rd receiver - the 1st receiver role sets the defence to create space on the outside and guide the team over the park.
    IMO first receiver is exactly where you need your half to go at the defence. If you fix defenders in the middle then it makes it very difficult for defences to cope with a quick shift to the edge. Earlier in the season Coote and Lomax were getting loads of space from from Fages going at the line before passing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    IMO first receiver is exactly where you need your half to go at the defence. If you fix defenders in the middle then it makes it very difficult for defences to cope with a quick shift to the edge. Earlier in the season Coote and Lomax were getting loads of space from from Fages going at the line before passing.
    Agreed - probably phrased wrong but the key part is not giving a defence time to readjust and slide out - which both Fages (preinjury) and Richardson were doing. The question is whether Fages isn’t doing that now because he’s been told to by Holbrook, is looking for more highlight reel moments for his contract, or it isn’t naturally his game. The latter two options should see Richardson back in the team, as unless it’s planned, it’s hurting our performances (as is the lack of kicking options but that’s a different conversation).

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    Taia made some costly missed tackles, brushed off far too easily.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Taia made some costly missed tackles, brushed off far too easily.
    I was surprised to see Lui just run through him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    I was surprised to see Lui just run through him.
    Hopefully it will be his last season in the red vee

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    Quote Originally Posted by coach View Post
    Hopefully it will be his last season in the red vee
    Bit harsh!

    I don't want us to hang on for one season too far, but he's been brilliant for us and that defensive performance wasn't typical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coach View Post
    Hopefully it will be his last season in the red vee
    yes, showing signs of his age these days

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintH517 View Post
    The feeling is mutual. Fages being brilliant is pushing it but I don’t have a problem with his performances, in fact I even said he’s doing well. My problem is we have someone who isn’t a scrum half playing there and as a result our last tackle plays are generally rubbish and our game management is poor. We’re having to rely on Coote to kick more often than not which is not how it should be given he doesn’t have a natural kicking game either. Lomax and Fages are too similar to be playing together and Fages leaving would give us space on the cap to sign a proper scrum half. That last sentence is rubbish, firstly I’m hardly judging Amor on one game and secondly Amor stats are 39 metres off 7 carries which is disgraceful and Ashworths are 42 metres off 7 carries. Not sure how Amor ‘was much better’. Lees also had a really poor game. Thankfully we have Walmsley and the sooner LMS and Thompson are back the better.
    Relying on Coote’s kicking.. one of the main reasons we signed him is because of his kicking game?
    It’s been said by the coach and players alike it’s a team sport and Saints play as a team not individuals. In a perfect world Fages would have an excellent kicking game, he doesn’t but he brings much more to the team therefore we’re better for him in there with Coote doing most of the kicking.

    Don’t rely on stats to tell if you a player is playing well or not. Amor took it up hard against Salford and found his front with quick play the balls. Hopefully Ashworth can pick some form up, he’s had a great opportunity with Thompson and LMS being out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reliable sauce View Post
    Relying on Coote’s kicking.. one of the main reasons we signed him is because of his kicking game?
    It’s been said by the coach and players alike it’s a team sport and Saints play as a team not individuals. In a perfect world Fages would have an excellent kicking game, he doesn’t but he brings much more to the team therefore we’re better for him in there with Coote doing most of the kicking.

    Don’t rely on stats to tell if you a player is playing well or not. Amor took it up hard against Salford and found his front with quick play the balls. Hopefully Ashworth can pick some form up, he’s had a great opportunity with Thompson and LMS being out.
    Amor is always doing hard metres right down the middle and attracting an extra defender he doesn't have massive impact but he is a strong player, Ashworth's metres were more on the edge but he isn't running a good line like he did early on in the season.

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