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Thread: Standard of the league

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    Default Standard of the league

    What’s everyone’s thoughts on the standard of the league this year?

    Hull have crept up to third even though first and second have rattled 60+ points past them over the last month.

    Cas and Wakefield make up the top 5 even though they’re both not great, with Catalan who are hit and miss, not far behind.

    It’s probably safe to say that the top 2 is already done and dusted and everyone else are scrapping for 3 play off spots.

    Thoughts?


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    In The West Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
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    If you put Sydney Roosters in this league, they'd struggle to win a game. It's that good

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    It looks very, very weak generally. But I guess that is the inevitable outcome of a salary capped sport where the commercial growth doesn't enable the cap to grow in line with inflation or other sports.

    I think we're miles clear as the best side. But we just don't win any big games. Semi or final against Warrington? Anyone be confident of winning that, really? Wire look good, but their showings against us and Salford have shown they are beatable, injuries to Hill, Clark or Austin could well rule them out. Could be one of those seasons where someone like Hull, Wigan or Cas improve through the season and cause a shock in the playoffs. Seems unimaginable now, but it's happened so many times before.

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    Should be called Strickenleague instead of Superleague too many players missing from most sides through injury, there is only Warrington who have not suffered so much.

    As already mentioned Leeds and Wigan are crap standard these days but you can see the Goons sneaking into the top 5 if Cas, Wakey and Hull don't get players back for those important wins.

    Our win yesterday was significant though, to score 50 pts with 8 players missing makes you wonder if other teams are capable of doing that.

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    I want to see a competitive league, listened to a podcast the other week with John Wilkin who says the salary cap weakens the league as a competition. I thought about it for a bit but I actually agree completely. The cap is in place to ‘level the playing field’ in affect yet clubs like Saints, Wigan, Leeds are the few who actually produce from within so are therefore able to bolster their squads. This leaves the rest with a smaller playing roster of decent players hoping to stay injury free for as long as possible.
    I think the salary cap has got to go or at least increase significantly. The small percentile rises over the next few years are pointless. The sports crying out for investment which is why expansion such as the northern American sides etc should be welcomed. Bring the game to a more global audience.

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    The injury situation has definitely had an impact this last 18 months or so, every week I’m reading that teams have got 10 + players unavailable. When those teams come up against each other the quality of the game isn’t going to be great. With the rule changes as well, it’s very difficult to take a risk on a player who isn’t fit because there are minimal rest periods now. The effect of that has been shown through the results as well, very inconsistant.

    Tactically I don’t think the game is great at the minute. Every team on the planet now at every level plays with one half-back on either side of the field and I think it’s made the game a lot more ‘rigid’ and structured. I watched the 2005 Origin game a couple of weeks ago where Andrew Johns came back and destroyed Queensland and I do think the game is/was better when the halves roam around the field and play more traditional roles. The game is very, very set piece orientated now.

    In terms of this season, very difficult to predict who will finish 3-5 at the minute. I was interested to see how we started the season because that’s probably the period of the season that mirrors the play-off’s in terms of intensity, weather, teams being fully fit etc and I thought we showed some promising signs. Results wise we started very well last year as well but I thought we looked a lot more suited to winning games of play-off football than we did this time last year. Time will tell though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    I think we're miles clear as the best side. But we just don't win any big games. Semi or final against Warrington? Anyone be confident of winning that, really?
    Yep. You’re just negative about everything. Remember this pearlier from before the Catalans game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    No Coote today and Welsby at fullback? Seems borderline throwing the game, but I guess it's a better approach than what we did last season where we didn't rotate at all.
    There’s no doubt we are a more confident, more balanced team than last year. Why wouldn’t we beat Warrington in any game?
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    Even the NRL has blow out scorelines.
    Eels v tigers or roosters v broncos or storm v panthers are some examples from the last month.

    Even in SLs haydays we had big scores. It's far too early to be calling the rest of the league weak, before we have won anything.

    Liverpool and City are running away with their league and there is no cap in football.

    I'm just glad we are competing again at the top and playing with some flair.

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    Without the cap there could easily be some 80-0 score lines in the league

    There are drawbacks to the cap but I believe the benefits outweigh the negatives

    I'd like to see the cap grow, it it can only happen with more money in the game, to get more money we need more advertising, commercialism, to get that we need to grow, to grow we need more teams, more teams means expansion.

    So as much as we don't like it, expand or become semi pro

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    The standard of tackling set by Catalan on Sunday was appalling. You really notice it when you watch the tries again - it’s like they are deliberately avoiding tackles. No wonder they are so hit and miss - and Hull were appalling last Monday. Either that or we are so good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    The standard of tackling set by Catalan on Sunday was appalling. You really notice it when you watch the tries again - it’s like they are deliberately avoiding tackles. No wonder they are so hit and miss - and Hull were appalling last Monday. Either that or we are so good.

    It's tough in modern RL to play so many games in a short period. We will see teams being great one week and poor the next unless they have a big squad and rotate

    Maybe that's our secret this year?

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    The standard of tackling set by Catalan on Sunday was appalling. You really notice it when you watch the tries again - it’s like they are deliberately avoiding tackles. No wonder they are so hit and miss - and Hull were appalling last Monday. Either that or we are so good.
    AAron Smith should have been "dead and buried" by the Catalan players on his way to his try. On the other hand the Saints are the most fit and mobile I,ve seen for quite a while, only Warrington are our nearest rival in that area but they can only last 60 mins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elesseff View Post
    Must be a legacy of Luke Walsh.
    Matty Smith is the new legacy, I think he missed 12 tackles on Sunday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elesseff View Post
    That's probably as good a way as any to look it. We've been through a pretty poor period but have released the players and staff that needed to go, signed generally well and promoted from within. It's not upto us to raise the standards of others. And I get the game isn't awash with spare cash but when you have the likes of Barwick, Rimmer, The Hetheringtons and the rest of them running things it's hardly surprising. How do we change that, probably sell our souls again like Super League only the stock is much lower and that didn't turn out too great.

    There have been a few periods of dominance in the game when teams have bred great players, kept them together and brought good players in as well. Bradford, us and Leeds spring to mind. There was also Warrington’s period too, with challenge cup runs and a couple of losing grand finals based on a similar ethos.


    Look at how Leeds (especially) and Wigan seem to be struggling now their conveyer belt of young talent seems to have slowed down and the quality has dropped....
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    I do think that the salary cap and the smaller clubs in the lower leagues are holding the sport back in the UK. Can you imagine it in say... F1? A small-time pumped up go-karting club is stopping Mercedes developing the next generation of engine because they fear of being left behind. The technology of which would end up in cars on the production line in 10 years from which other manufacturers just copy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickles Forearm View Post
    I want to see a competitive league, listened to a podcast the other week with John Wilkin who says the salary cap weakens the league as a competition. I thought about it for a bit but I actually agree completely. The cap is in place to ‘level the playing field’ in affect yet clubs like Saints, Wigan, Leeds are the few who actually produce from within so are therefore able to bolster their squads. This leaves the rest with a smaller playing roster of decent players hoping to stay injury free for as long as possible.
    I think the salary cap has got to go or at least increase significantly. The small percentile rises over the next few years are pointless. The sports crying out for investment which is why expansion such as the northern American sides etc should be welcomed. Bring the game to a more global audience.
    How level is the playing field when only 4 teams have ever won super league? As long as there’s measures in place to stop clubs spending beyond their means (ie Bradford) I don’t see any reason to keep the salary cap, or at least they could significantly raise it.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Raise it yes but keep it , we don't want to go back to the time when one club is buying players and bankrupting themselves just so that another club cant have them , and maybe the league is beginning to even up anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRLStatman View Post
    I do think that the salary cap and the smaller clubs in the lower leagues are holding the sport back in the UK. Can you imagine it in say... F1? A small-time pumped up go-karting club is stopping Mercedes developing the next generation of engine because they fear of being left behind. The technology of which would end up in cars on the production line in 10 years from which other manufacturers just copy?
    There has to be a balance though. If there was laissez- faire then the teams with the biggest crowds and the best youth development or a team with a very rich sugar daddy would dominate i.e. Saints, Wigan, Warrington, Leeds possibly Hull and Toronto. The rest would wither and die by process of Darwinian survival of the fittest. For the good of the game in general we should not abolish the cap. It’s encouraging that Cas and Wakefield are currently doing well but how long can they sustain their relevant success?

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    But arent our top players as good as the aussies nowadays? England should have probably won the world cup?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Houghwood Saint View Post
    But arent our top players as good as the aussies nowadays? England should have probably won the world cup?
    To be fair, our “best of the best” players would give the Aussies top boys a game, no doubt, but their strength in depth is far superior and they’ve got lots more players at that elite level, with half a dozen players In most positions.....
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    I think we more than match them in the pack, and are getting better in the backs, but the Aussies are so far ahead of us in the halves it's ridiculous. If you'd have put Cronk or Thurston in the England team in that WC final we probably would have won it. Unfortunately we just don't have halves who are capable of managing a game at that level of intensity.

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    I sometimes wonder...…………………...would we be having this conversation if we weren't top of the league and obviously one of the best teams in the competition? Couldn't it just be that the rest look poor because thanks to JH we're looking so good? There's plenty to like this season, Wakey for a start, the demise of Leeds and to a lesser extent the Pies and perhaps even Cas. Warrington are strong, Hull are up and down as are Catalans (no change there then). There's usually a couple of favourites for the GF and this year is no different, however like last year, who's to say the favourites will win it (or even get there?). The strength of the League can be seen in our squad and if other clubs developed talent as we do the sport would be rosier and dare I say it, more competitive. The only thing I'd say is certain is that London will get relegated and Toronto promoted, it's all about money in both those instances.

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    I’ve watched a lot of our games recorded on sky from last season this week and we seem so much stronger and better comparing like for like. The demise in the ability and attitude of Barba is significantly noticeable from the Cas away game after Magic weekend. Plus the improvement of Lomax, Lees, Knowles etc.

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    Although the standard of the league is perhaps lower for the saints fans its a matter of getting our "entertainers" tag back, last year we didn't really have many poor games a couple of league games and 2 semi finals. This season we are very much a team working there socks off for each other with a great ethic and spirit, Holbrook has got it right with the new recruits, Coote has kept us composed in all our games something we had as a weakness last year.

    Last season we didn't win enough silverware as a reward for our consistency, most of our games were great to watch, the negative was lack of rotation ready for the bigger games. This season it does look as though we could go one better with the depth of our squad, last week was probably a good indicator of that.

    The standard of the league might be lower but Saints have raised the bar a little, long may it continue especially for those bigger games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    There have been a few periods of dominance in the game when teams have bred great players, kept them together and brought good players in as well. Bradford, us and Leeds spring to mind. There was also Warrington’s period too, with challenge cup runs and a couple of losing grand finals based on a similar ethos.


    Look at how Leeds (especially) and Wigan seem to be struggling now their conveyer belt of young talent seems to have slowed down and the quality has dropped....

    And still think they have the young talent, they top the academy leagues year after year

    It's the salary cap that has made it difficult for these teams, without it they would have just bought the best players and killed the league

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