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Thread: My God - Common sense from the RFL

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    Default My God - Common sense from the RFL

    The following additions/amendments to 2019 referee policy have been introduced with immediate effect:

    Placing the ball on the defender lying on the ground – It is the responsibility of the player playing the ball to place the ball on the ground at their feet. If necessary the player should step backwards to ensure this can be done. OUTCOME – If the ball is placed on the tackler, this will be ruled a knock-on.
    Moving off the mark/stepping over to deliberately place the defender in the ruck - It is the responsibility of the player playing the ball to place the ball on the ground at their feet, and not to advance off the mark - if necessary the player should step backwards. OUTCOME – The player in possession will be penalised for moving off the mark if deliberately stepping over a defender to place them in the ruck.

    Playing the ball into a defender in the ruck – The player playing the ball should maintain balance and control when heeling the ball to the acting half-back. OUTCOME - In this situation the player in the ruck will be penalised if hit by the ball - or if in the opinion of the referee the half-back is prevented from picking the ball up. EXCEPTION – A penalty will be awarded against the player playing the ball if the ball is forcibly heeled back with the intention of contacting the defending player with the ball.

    Passing into an opposing player – Any ball passed into an opposing player in and around the ruck, in any direction, will be deemed to be acting against the spirit of the game. OUTCOME - The passer will be immediately penalised.

    https://www.superleague.co.uk/articl...referee-policy

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    Quote Originally Posted by st. etrigan View Post
    The following additions/amendments to 2019 referee policy have been introduced with immediate effect:

    Placing the ball on the defender lying on the ground – It is the responsibility of the player playing the ball to place the ball on the ground at their feet. If necessary the player should step backwards to ensure this can be done. OUTCOME – If the ball is placed on the tackler, this will be ruled a knock-on.
    Moving off the mark/stepping over to deliberately place the defender in the ruck - It is the responsibility of the player playing the ball to place the ball on the ground at their feet, and not to advance off the mark - if necessary the player should step backwards. OUTCOME – The player in possession will be penalised for moving off the mark if deliberately stepping over a defender to place them in the ruck.

    Playing the ball into a defender in the ruck – The player playing the ball should maintain balance and control when heeling the ball to the acting half-back. OUTCOME - In this situation the player in the ruck will be penalised if hit by the ball - or if in the opinion of the referee the half-back is prevented from picking the ball up. EXCEPTION – A penalty will be awarded against the player playing the ball if the ball is forcibly heeled back with the intention of contacting the defending player with the ball.

    Passing into an opposing player – Any ball passed into an opposing player in and around the ruck, in any direction, will be deemed to be acting against the spirit of the game. OUTCOME - The passer will be immediately penalised.

    https://www.superleague.co.uk/articl...referee-policy

    Brilliant couldn't agree more. I've said for sometime the issue at the ruck is the ball carrier more than the defender

    Now we have clarity the ref has a better chance of managing the defenders

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    Shentons pass to the back of a Catalan player at the play the ball was embarrassing.He didn’t even pass it in the direction of the running Cas player.Glad they seem to be doing something about this.

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    Great to be playing Grub XIII this weekend.

    Tomkins, Bird and Gigot will have little time to adjust.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by st. etrigan View Post
    The following additions/amendments to 2019 referee policy have been introduced with immediate effect:

    Placing the ball on the defender lying on the ground – It is the responsibility of the player playing the ball to place the ball on the ground at their feet. If necessary the player should step backwards to ensure this can be done. OUTCOME – If the ball is placed on the tackler, this will be ruled a knock-on.
    Moving off the mark/stepping over to deliberately place the defender in the ruck - It is the responsibility of the player playing the ball to place the ball on the ground at their feet, and not to advance off the mark - if necessary the player should step backwards. OUTCOME – The player in possession will be penalised for moving off the mark if deliberately stepping over a defender to place them in the ruck.

    Playing the ball into a defender in the ruck – The player playing the ball should maintain balance and control when heeling the ball to the acting half-back. OUTCOME - In this situation the player in the ruck will be penalised if hit by the ball - or if in the opinion of the referee the half-back is prevented from picking the ball up. EXCEPTION – A penalty will be awarded against the player playing the ball if the ball is forcibly heeled back with the intention of contacting the defending player with the ball.

    Passing into an opposing player – Any ball passed into an opposing player in and around the ruck, in any direction, will be deemed to be acting against the spirit of the game. OUTCOME - The passer will be immediately penalised.

    https://www.superleague.co.uk/articl...referee-policy
    I'm all for these changes, but with regard to the last para, what happens if the player at the PTB passes into an opponent that has moved into his line during the PTB?

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    And now you will get defenders failing to clear the ruck or roll out of the way so the attacking player has to step back over him which will slow down the play the ball. And therefore gaining an advantage.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by undertheradar View Post
    And now you will get defenders failing to clear the ruck or roll out of the way so the attacking player has to step back over him which will slow down the play the ball. And therefore gaining an advantage.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    We don't know that, time will tell.

    Do you not agree with the changes? Do you have an alternative solution?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    I'm all for these changes, but with regard to the last para, what happens if the player at the PTB passes into an opponent that has moved into his line during the PTB?

    I presume if a defender does this on purpose they are penalised

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    Quote Originally Posted by undertheradar View Post
    And now you will get defenders failing to clear the ruck or roll out of the way so the attacking player has to step back over him which will slow down the play the ball. And therefore gaining an advantage.


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    Any 'new' spoiling tactic identified by the RFL should quickly be legislated against.

    It's long over due. Our game has been spoiled for long enough with cheating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    We don't know that, time will tell.

    Do you not agree with the changes? Do you have an alternative solution?
    I agree that passing the ball into a player should be penalised. But surely there needs to be some emphasis and responsibility on the defender to clear the ruck?

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    I presume if a defender does this on purpose they are penalised
    I was thinking more of a defending player being slow getting up from a tackle and running from behind the PTB and getting hit by a ball passed from the PTB. I would expect the penalty to be awarded to the attacking team? The article from the refs policy doesn't mention that scenario, unless I am reading it wrong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    I was thinking more of a defending player being slow getting up from a tackle and running from behind the PTB and getting hit by a ball passed from the PTB. I would expect the penalty to be awarded to the attacking team? The article from the refs policy doesn't mention that scenario, unless I am reading it wrong?
    I think your right. There may be numerous scenarios so quite hard to mention all the possibilities.

    In my work I present to people all the time, when I give them updates they often say, "but what if" and "well now this will happen" but in reality rarely do these things happen and if they do we just have to cross that bridge then. Design out problems you can and don't worry about the what's IFs as they may never happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by undertheradar View Post
    I agree that passing the ball into a player should be penalised. But surely there needs to be some emphasis and responsibility on the defender to clear the ruck?
    There is and always has been. But the ball carrier has worked out everyone is looking at the defender and now works hard to get the defender locked into a difficult position to win a penalty. All ruins the ruck, these new rules should clean it up, if a defender truely aims to slow the ruck down then the usual rules apply.

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    The passing the ball into a man deliberately was outlawed a couple of seasons ago wasn’t it? Seem to remember McIllorum being a master of that one

    Regards playing the ball, there didn’t seem to be an issue with this until this season, the man playing the ball always seemed to find a patch of grass to put the ball on and play it back to his teammate without bringing a defender into the process. However, we have slowly allowed players to move off the mark when playing the ball and playing it into a defender is a result of this I think. That said, it should put an end to the likes of Bird and O’Loughlin’s antics in stepping over men and moving to the side etc

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    Do for me , basics sorted , no doubt someone will try to screw it , but it will be a cheat of the past .
    roy litherland it's happened i told you it would

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    Quote Originally Posted by roy litherland View Post
    Do for me , basics sorted , no doubt someone will try to screw it , but it will be a cheat of the past .

    Spot on Roy. Amazingly, I find myself agreeing with sentiments expressed by Phil Clarke! namely that it's become part of the "cheat" culture that's crept in to the game. Well done the RFL. Congratulating the RFL and agreeing with Phil Clarke, what's the World coming to?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    I was thinking more of a defending player being slow getting up from a tackle and running from behind the PTB and getting hit by a ball passed from the PTB. I would expect the penalty to be awarded to the attacking team? The article from the refs policy doesn't mention that scenario, unless I am reading it wrong?
    I too would expect a penalty for the attacking team. The defender should try to stand in a position not affecting play and hold both arms in the air to signify he is not active like they used to do years ago.

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    As an aside to the main thread, what do you think about hookers milking pens by deliberately running into retreating offside defenders? All hookers/dummy halves try this, some get pens some don't!

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    Quote Originally Posted by doc View Post
    As an aside to the main thread, what do you think about hookers milking pens by deliberately running into retreating offside defenders? All hookers/dummy halves try this, some get pens some don't!
    I don’t see that as “milking” a penalty which tends to be given only when the retreating player makes a grab at the dummy half before they have gone back 10 metres. When the defender continues to retreat without attempting to hold the attacker, the referee almost always lets the play continue.

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    While we are discussing infringements at the play-the-ball, it annoys me that referees do not penalise more harshly those instances where the offside prevents a try scoring opportunity. A case in point was on Good Friday when O’Loughlin tackles Smith without attempting to get onside in a situation where Smith would almost certainly have reached the line. We received a penalty but surely the intentional interference from an offside position thereby denying a possible try deserves a yellow card?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    I don’t see that as “milking” a penalty which tends to be given only when the retreating player makes a grab at the dummy half before they have gone back 10 metres. When the defender continues to retreat without attempting to hold the attacker, the referee almost always lets the play continue.
    Exactly. Why should the attacker have to run around the slow-retreating defender? Cunningham used to use the opposition player as a human shield at times - great fun!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    While we are discussing infringements at the play-the-ball, it annoys me that referees do not penalise more harshly those instances where the offside prevents a try scoring opportunity. A case in point was on Good Friday when O’Loughlin tackles Smith without attempting to get onside in a situation where Smith would almost certainly have reached the line. We received a penalty but surely the intentional interference from an offside position thereby denying a possible try deserves a yellow card?
    It should have either been a penalty try or a sin-binning.

    But.... Shirley Temple, etc, etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    It should have either been a penalty try or a sin-binning.

    But.... Shirley Temple, etc, etc
    Agreed totally at the time I was screaming my head off for a P-Try but the bin at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    While we are discussing infringements at the play-the-ball, it annoys me that referees do not penalise more harshly those instances where the offside prevents a try scoring opportunity. A case in point was on Good Friday when O’Loughlin tackles Smith without attempting to get onside in a situation where Smith would almost certainly have reached the line. We received a penalty but surely the intentional interference from an offside position thereby denying a possible try deserves a yellow card?
    I agree but the ref needs to be sure it would have resulted in a try

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    I think the intention behind this is admirable, but I'm not sure the wording of these clauses is especially helpful. Take the one about passing in particular:

    "Passing into an opposing player – Any ball passed into an opposing player in and around the ruck, in any direction, will be deemed to be acting against the spirit of the game. OUTCOME - The passer will be immediately penalised."

    This seems to completely ignore the reality that sometimes retreating offside players do get in the way of a genuine pass. Likewise, the wording of the other rules makes me suspect that it will be possible to artificially slow down play the balls by lying around in the ruck until the attacking player has to untangle himself and 'step backwards' to play the ball.

    I seems to me that, contrary to the title of the thread, the RFL have once again tried to keep common sense/interpretation out of the equation and have swapped one problem arising from a set of inflexible rules for another problem that will arise from the opposite set of inflexible rules.

    For me, the best solution is to let the ref decide whether there is reasonable evidence for intent. If a player is getting up to play the ball quickly, has earned the right to do so, and finds himself obstructed by a defender lying in the ruck, then that should be a penalty to the attacking team. If, however, a player steps over a prone defender in order to play the ball into him, then the penalty goes the other way. Likewise, if a player passes the ball directly at a stationary opponent then obviously he is cheating and should be penalised. If he is trying to pass to a teammate and the pass is obstructed by an offside defender then the penalty should go the other way.

    Judging all of these things requires interpretation, and occasionally refs will get it wrong or come up with slightly varying interpretations, but that to me is preferable to creating a rigid set of conditions that teams will just learn to take advantage of.

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