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Thread: Goal kicking.

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    Default Goal kicking.

    Do we need to get a better goal kicker to kick goals; as in the big games the kicks could cost us the 2 points to win

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    Quote Originally Posted by danny_15 View Post
    Do we need to get a better goal kicker to kick goals; as in the big games the kicks could cost us the 2 points to win
    We have one. He currently canít get a game.


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    Quote Originally Posted by undertheradar View Post
    We have one. He currently can’t get a game.


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    Just playing devil’s advocate, but it could be argued that if he gives us 4-6 extra points a game with his goal kicking then he quite regularly gives them back by flailing at someone in defence to let them in for a try. It’s swings and roundabouts

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    Iím not sure Richardson would have kicked any of the conversions Percival missed. They were all tricky touchline attempts in a difficult swirling wind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    Just playing devilís advocate, but it could be argued that if he gives us 4-6 extra points a game with his goal kicking then he quite regularly gives them back by flailing at someone in defence to let them in for a try. Itís swings and roundabouts
    I totally agree mate. Thatís the dilemma with Richardson. He could win you a tight game with his kicking but his defence could also cost you points. Itís a tricky one for Holbrook.


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    Quote Originally Posted by undertheradar View Post
    I totally agree mate. That’s the dilemma with Richardson. He could win you a tight game with his kicking but his defence could also cost you points. It’s a tricky one for Holbrook.


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    Very true. I’d be staggered if his defence wasn’t part of Holbrook’s thought process. It’s all good competition anyway. Danny I’m sure is made of the right stuff and will be busting a gut to get back in

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    I’m not sure Richardson would have kicked any of the conversions Percival missed. They were all tricky touchline attempts in a difficult swirling wind.
    Agreed but to be fair he (Richardson) won us a few games last year with last minute penalties or drop goals.
    It's not just having the ability to kick, it's doing it under pressure.

    If we get to a game the we need a Golden Point drop goal Richardson would be the go to player.

    It's a difficult choice for the coach.

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    Kicks today were all difficult, well the ones missed. Especially second half, both off touchline into a swirling wind.

    Incidentally, the decision of Brough, Wakefield’s good kicker, to go for 2 from half way I think probably cost them the game. Better option would have been kick to corner, if not scored after 4 plays go for the one pointer. As it was, we got the ball back and game changed

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    this is the one area we really miss Richardson ( last season he was worth his place for kicking alone0 In a tight game Percival isn't going to make the difference ( the Cas play off game in 2017 being the best example)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    Agreed but to be fair he (Richardson) won us a few games last year with last minute penalties or drop goals.
    It's not just having the ability to kick, it's doing it under pressure.

    If we get to a game the we need a Golden Point drop goal Richardson would be the go to player.

    It's a difficult choice for the coach.
    That's why he gets paid big bucks. On the question of a kicker didn't both Lomax and Makinson kick for us at some point.
    I stopped smoking and my brother called me a quitter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    Very true. I’d be staggered if his defence wasn’t part of Holbrook’s thought process. It’s all good competition anyway. Danny I’m sure is made of the right stuff and will be busting a gut to get back in
    Very true and should be a better player for it

    I don't think the decision is as simple as a kicker or defender. So many other factors, training is a key one, who is training harder, showing a better attitude etc. Maybe Fages is edging this ATM, if so the challenge will stand Richardson well

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    Quote Originally Posted by L.S.F View Post
    Goal kickers kick goals to win games for 2 points?
    No what I meant they kick goals but if we miss the kicks it could be a matter of a draw or a loss

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    Just playing devil’s advocate, but it could be argued that if he gives us 4-6 extra points a game with his goal kicking then he quite regularly gives them back by flailing at someone in defence to let them in for a try. It’s swings and roundabouts
    Also I think the psychological effect of conceding a try has a bigger impact than missing a couple of kicks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tilly2006 View Post
    Also I think the psychological effect of conceding a try has a bigger impact on the whole team than missing a couple of kicks.

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    Percival strikes the ball well enough and must practice practice practice.

    Long was a terrible ball striker when he first joined us and trained himself into an acccomplished kicker. Not perfect but good enough esp in big games...

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    Danny Rich kicks goals play him? SIMPLES

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rommel View Post
    Danny Rich kicks goals play him? SIMPLES
    Read upsides post. At the moment, if you want to watch him play you've more chance if you go to Leigh.

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    Default Goal kicking.

    People keep mentioning Richardson’s defence. While it is a bit wobbly I think it’s his game management and decision making that costs the team more. Turning over the ball in your own half three or four times a game because of hare-brained last-tackle plays takes its toll on a team far more than the odd missed tackle, IMO.

    The tricky/frustrating thing is that in Coote we seem to have someone who makes good decisions but isn’t a particularly good kicker of the ball, while in Richardson we have someone who is a good kicker of the ball but makes consistently bad decisions.
    Last edited by Dux; 11th February 2019 at 11:31.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    People keep mentioning Richardsonís defence. While it is a bit wobbly I think itís his game management and decision making that costs the team more. Turning over the ball in your own half three or four times a game because of hare-brained last-tackle play takes its toll on a team far more than the odd missed tackle, IMO.

    The tricky/frustrating thing is that in Coote we seem to have someone who makes good decisions but isnít a particularly good kicker of the ball, while in Richardson we have someone who is a good kicker of the ball but makes consistently bad decisions.
    Best post of the lot. The problem was compounded by the failure to learn from mistakes, its why I used the quote about Richardson being a player who has played his first game 30-odd times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Best post of the lot. The problem was compounded by the failure to learn from mistakes, its why I used the quote about Richardson being a player who has played his first game 30-odd times.
    FWIW, my theory is that DR has had it a bit too easy so far in his pro playing career. He was one of the standout players in an Academy team that was the best in the country. At that level and in that team I suspect he would have been able to get away with high-risk plays and making things up on the fly on the last tackle. Then it just so happened that the time he broke into the first team as a regular was also the time when Barba was on fire and we were making breaks from all over the park. High risk plays were coming off because we had the best player in the comp and our left edge was taking teams apart at will.

    So I suspect that DR has never really had to acclimatise to playing the kind of rugby that is normal for the top level ... i.e. rugby where points don't come easy and you have to build pressure over 3, 4 or 5 sets rather than trying come up with miracle plays in every set.

    My hope is that the failures of the latter end of last season and this spell out of the team will help him to mature as a player. It would be great if he did, as I think DR with some game smarts would be a very good half back indeed.

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    I would be happier playing Richardson now we have a bether defensive full back. Last season when he missed a tackle it was invariably a try as Barba's defence was awful at times.

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    Is Richardson still carrying an injury? I hope he doesn’t come back unless he is fully fit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    People keep mentioning Richardson’s defence. While it is a bit wobbly I think it’s his game management and decision making that costs the team more. Turning over the ball in your own half three or four times a game because of hare-brained last-tackle plays takes its toll on a team far more than the odd missed tackle, IMO.

    The tricky/frustrating thing is that in Coote we seem to have someone who makes good decisions but isn’t a particularly good kicker of the ball, while in Richardson we have someone who is a good kicker of the ball but makes consistently bad decisions.
    The last tackle was a weakness last year, but though Richardson is the player executing, should it all be down to him. You would expect that we would have some sort of plan as to what we will do in certain situations, and, that senior players would have some input on the field. I know you cannot cover every contingency, and when things don't go to plan the he has to make better decisions, but very often last year he was given the ball on the last because whatever we were trying to do on that tackle failed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    The last tackle was a weakness last year, but though Richardson is the player executing, should it all be down to him. You would expect that we would have some sort of plan as to what we will do in certain situations, and, that senior players would have some input on the field. I know you cannot cover every contingency, and when things don't go to plan the he has to make better decisions, but very often last year he was given the ball on the last because whatever we were trying to do on that tackle failed.
    There's probably some truth in that, but what I remember most often is the ball coming to Richardson on the last tackle and him either a) running it, b) chucking it out to the threequarters, or c) running backwards and forwards across the line looking for a gap before deciding to kick, by which point the defence is all over him and the kick is invariably poor. And, ultimately, if you are the only player in the team with a kicking game then yes, the last tackle options are down to you.

    I don't mean to say that Richardson is to blame for our failure to win major silverware last year. I think it was just a key weakness of our squad that we only had one player capable of running the last-tackle plays, and that player happened to be a rookie with only a handful of games under his belt. While we've started well this year I'm not convinced that we've fixed that problem.

    All it will take for DR to improve is a shift in mentality, IMO. From what I've seen of him I get the impression that he sees kicking on the 5th as a last resort ... as if it is an admission of failure. I think he just needs to learn that he can make a huge contribution to the team with his kicking as well as (or more than) his running and handling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    There's probably some truth in that, but what I remember most often is the ball coming to Richardson on the last tackle and him either a) running it, b) chucking it out to the threequarters, or c) running backwards and forwards across the line looking for a gap before deciding to kick, by which point the defence is all over him and the kick is invariably poor. And, ultimately, if you are the only player in the team with a kicking game then yes, the last tackle options are down to you.

    I don't mean to say that Richardson is to blame for our failure to win major silverware last year. I think it was just a key weakness of our squad that we only had one player capable of running the last-tackle plays, and that player happened to be a rookie with only a handful of games under his belt. While we've started well this year I'm not convinced that we've fixed that problem.

    All it will take for DR to improve is a shift in mentality, IMO. From what I've seen of him I get the impression that he sees kicking on the last tackle as a last resort ... as if it is an admission of failure. I think he just needs to learn that he can make a huge contribution to the team with his kicking as well as (or more than) his running and handling.
    Nothing to disagree with there.

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