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Thread: Best O'seas star

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    Because we didn't know what was happening with Ben Barba.
    Exactly right. We were offered Austin first but at the time Barba was staying. Unfortunate how it worked out really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    Exactly right. We were offered Austin first but at the time Barba was staying. Unfortunate how it worked out really.
    Whether it is unfortunate or not all depends on Coote imo.

    Coote has been overlooked by a lot of people, and the common opinion is he isnt anywhere near as good as Barba and is a huge downgrade. Coote is a different type of player to Barba, granted not quite the "maverick" but a lot more consistent, better defensively and capable of offering some big plays on attack. On his day he is comfortably in the top 3 full backs in SL on ability, so if he can hit that kind of form for us he will be a great signing. It also allows us to keep the half back pairing of Lomax & Richardson which was very impressive last season and not too much disruption to our squad.

    Austin is a quality player - there is no doubt about that and its great to see a name like that coming to SL - but he can also be inconsistent/up and down with form and not guaranteed to be what people expect/to hit his best form either so as with all imports its a risk to how he adapts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wakey_saint View Post
    Whether it is unfortunate or not all depends on Coote imo.

    Coote has been overlooked by a lot of people, and the common opinion is he isnt anywhere near as good as Barba and is a huge downgrade. Coote is a different type of player to Barba, granted not quite the "maverick" but a lot more consistent, better defensively and capable of offering some big plays on attack. On his day he is comfortably in the top 3 full backs in SL on ability, so if he can hit that kind of form for us he will be a great signing. It also allows us to keep the half back pairing of Lomax & Richardson which was very impressive last season and not too much disruption to our squad.

    Austin is a quality player - there is no doubt about that and its great to see a name like that coming to SL - but he can also be inconsistent/up and down with form and not guaranteed to be what people expect/to hit his best form either so as with all imports its a risk to how he adapts.
    From my perspective I'm seeing Coote more like Wello in that his prime asset is his defence who can chomp into the attacking line or provide creative grubber kicks over the whitewash. Barba is a loss but not a catastrophic one, I don't think we lost a game when he didn't play and the first half of the season was more or less giving us big score winning margins.

    As for Warrington they will not have a "settled in" half back partnership for a couple of weeks and then it will re occur again in 2020. For us there is a stability look about us in the pivotal positions and we have some very promising youngsters coming through something that Warrington struggle with at times on the home product front.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wakey_saint View Post
    Whether it is unfortunate or not all depends on Coote imo.

    Coote has been overlooked by a lot of people, and the common opinion is he isnt anywhere near as good as Barba and is a huge downgrade. Coote is a different type of player to Barba, granted not quite the "maverick" but a lot more consistent, better defensively and capable of offering some big plays on attack. On his day he is comfortably in the top 3 full backs in SL on ability, so if he can hit that kind of form for us he will be a great signing. It also allows us to keep the half back pairing of Lomax & Richardson which was very impressive last season and not too much disruption to our squad.

    Austin is a quality player - there is no doubt about that and its great to see a name like that coming to SL - but he can also be inconsistent/up and down with form and not guaranteed to be what people expect/to hit his best form either so as with all imports its a risk to how he adapts.
    I agree, people are underestimating Coote. He may not have the silky, flash skills that Barba had but the guy was a first choice regular for years in the NRL and has won a GF. Its only injury thats robbed him of playing many more NRL games than he has. In Coote I think we're getting a Wellens type full back, solid in defence and under the high ball, exceptional positional sense and a knack of knowing when to link up with play. He's also got a pretty decent boot on him as well so thats a bonus over Barba and will help out our halves massively.
    While he may not have the same attacking threat as Barba it could actually favour our attack overall, in that we wont focus all our attacking moves around 1 player. Coupled with the addition of Naiquama at 3 instead of Morgan I think means we'll have a much more balanced attack and offer a threat on both sides of the field.

    Austin is a very good player, in my opinion better than Widdop, but he does have a tendency to go missing in games, which I think is why Canberra had finally had enough of him, he just couldn't produce the consistency you need in the NRL. Like Coote he's also suffered badly with injuries over the years. If fit and motivated he's going to be a real asset for Wire this year, just not sure he'll step up when they really need him. Still a massive improvement on Roberts though.

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    Will Coote be an upgrade on the Barba of the first 10-15 games of the season? Certainly not. Will he be an upgrade on the Barba we had for the rest of the time? I suspect he will.

    I can't say I know a great deal about Coote, but I remember being impressed by him when I saw him play for Scotland. I was in favour of us signing a 6 rather than a 1, but all the same he's a player I'm looking forward to seeing play for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Haggerty View Post
    Don't get me wrong - I like Richardson and Lomax, and I'm quite happy going into the new season with them in the halves. But I'd have shifted either one of them for Widdop. Warrington have done a very tidy bit of business here, and we'd look daft to deny it.
    Has anyone questioned whether it's a decent signing of a good player? The point is more Wire's ridiculous (but laughably predictable) hyperbole.

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    Default Best O'seas star

    Warrington talking bollocks is hardly something new. Don’t forget

    ‘Warrington showed him their superior training facilities, better performance culture compared to St Helens’

    https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk...signing-barba/

    This being the better performance culture that has seen them fail to be champions since the end of the British Empire ...

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    [QUOTE=wakey_saint;751371]Whether it is unfortunate or not all depends on Coote imo.

    Coote has been overlooked by a lot of people, and the common opinion is he isnt anywhere near as good as Barba and is a huge downgrade. Coote is a different type of player to Barba, granted not quite the "maverick" but a lot more consistent, better defensively and capable of offering some big plays on attack. On his day he is comfortably in the top 3 full backs in SL on ability, so if he can hit that kind of form for us he will be a great signing. It also allows us to keep the half back pairing of Lomax & Richardson which was very impressive last season and not too much disruption to our squad.



    If he can pull off a tackle the like of which Barba flapped at in last years semi final against Warrington he'll most certainly be an upgrade!

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    From my perspective I'm seeing Coote more like Wello in that his prime asset is his defence who can chomp into the attacking line or provide creative grubber kicks over the whitewash. Barba is a loss but not a catastrophic one, I don't think we lost a game when he didn't play and the first half of the season was more or less giving us big score winning margins.

    As for Warrington they will not have a "settled in" half back partnership for a couple of weeks and then it will re occur again in 2020. For us there is a stability look about us in the pivotal positions and we have some very promising youngsters coming through something that Warrington struggle with at times on the home product front.
    Fully agree. I think Barba was obviously sensational in spells and really helped us give some teams a thumping. However, it was the tight games where we needed a full back who was going to put his body on the line so we could win by a close margin. We did well to grind out a few wins, if my memory is correct, when he wasn't playing.

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    [QUOTE=Houghwood Saint;751379]
    Quote Originally Posted by wakey_saint View Post
    If he can pull off a tackle the like of which Barba flapped at in last years semi final against Warrington he'll most certainly be an upgrade!
    If he can zip through a tiny gap in the piescum defence on the halfway line, turn their fullback inside out and leave him flat on his arse, then...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    It's a signing most of us wouldn't have minded at Saints to be fair and it's good for the game as a whole. Our signings for this season excite me possibly more than when we signed Barba. Benny was a gamble but I don't think these three are.
    If Barba was a gamble then these three definitely are. He might have been coming off the back of a ban but he was still a top, top player something which these 3 probably aren’t. That said they are all solid signings and would probably get in most SL sides.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Haggerty View Post
    A lot of folk in danger of sounding very bitter on here. Widdop is the current international stand-off for England, and is an acknowledged star in the NRL every bit as much as Graham and Burgess. He's still got a good number of years in him, and he's not coming over for a short holiday or until he can get another contract back in Oz after a single year. This is a very good signing.

    Don't get me wrong - I like Richardson and Lomax, and I'm quite happy going into the new season with them in the halves. But I'd have shifted either one of them for Widdop. Warrington have done a very tidy bit of business here, and we'd look daft to deny it.
    Correct, they’ve signed a star NRL player of course they’re going to be delighted and exaggerate just like any other club would. The thought of them going into next season with Austin and Widdop in the halves and us having Lomax and Richardson there isn’t a pleasant one. Especially when there’s a good chance we’re going to be needing a halfback for 2020.

    Quote Originally Posted by wakey_saint View Post
    Whether it is unfortunate or not all depends on Coote imo.

    Coote has been overlooked by a lot of people, and the common opinion is he isnt anywhere near as good as Barba and is a huge downgrade. Coote is a different type of player to Barba, granted not quite the "maverick" but a lot more consistent, better defensively and capable of offering some big plays on attack. On his day he is comfortably in the top 3 full backs in SL on ability, so if he can hit that kind of form for us he will be a great signing. It also allows us to keep the half back pairing of Lomax & Richardson which was very impressive last season and not too much disruption to our squad.
    There are certainly positives to Coote coming in but that is most definitely not one of them. In fact one of the reasons many people wanted a stand off was because it was pretty unimpressive.

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    Im being cynical but it seems strange to me that Widdop busted his shoulder twice towards the back end of last year then opts to come to SL. Shoulders can be tricky (Hooper, Stankevitch). Has he tied up a big contract over here knowing that his fitness is in question? It will be interesting to see how he goes for the Dragons this year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    Im being cynical but it seems strange to me that Widdop busted his shoulder twice towards the back end of last year then opts to come to SL. Shoulders can be tricky (Hooper, Stankevitch). Has he tied up a big contract over here knowing that his fitness is in question? It will be interesting to see how he goes for the Dragons this year.
    Thats my thoughts, I'm pretty sure it was reported that the shoulder is a chronic injury one and that was the only reason I didn't want Saints to try and sign him. He might have been OK for a season but chronic injuries eventually take there toil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintH517 View Post
    Correct, they’ve signed a star NRL player of course they’re going to be delighted and exaggerate just like any other club would. The thought of them going into next season with Austin and Widdop in the halves and us having Lomax and Richardson there isn’t a pleasant one. Especially when there’s a good chance we’re going to be needing a halfback for 2020.



    There are certainly positives to Coote coming in but that is most definitely not one of them. In fact one of the reasons many people wanted a stand off was because it was pretty unimpressive.
    I'd be interested to know why you think Lomax & Richardson were unimpressive as a pairing?

    Lomax had possibly the best year he's had in a Saints shirt at 6...17 tries & 16 assists is a better return than any other half back in the league and I would disagree with anybody who said we needed to replace him playing there. As for Richardson, he is young and still has things to learn but last year was his first experience as a regular first team player and did very well considering. Not many half backs hit their peak at such a young age (it took Sean Long a couple of seasons first team experience to develop into the player he became) & Richardson has a very similar potential imo. As the team that scored the most tries and won the most games last year (along with the debate about Barba going missing for half a season), I would be interested to know how we managed to achieve that with an unimpressive half back combination?

    Also, as a few people have commented, Austin is a quality player but has sturggled with injuries and his form is inconsistent. Couple that with the fact he will pair with Brown this year and then have to form again with Widdop next year there is no guarantees they will be as successful as you would expect. I also dont know why, as a club, we would want to throw big money at players in positions when we already have adequate cover in. Granted if theo decides to leave we m,ay need an additional half back for 2020, but with another years experience behind Danny and if Jonny hits the form he showed last season I would be more than happy with that pairing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    The Warrington statement that Widdop is probably the greatest signing in the history o SL got me thinking about who people think has been the best/had the most impactd

    I would have to go Jamie Lyon thought there have been numerous good signings from the NRL.

    Maybe he isn't maybe he is t, but all clubs need to talk up thier signing s and promote the game to raise attendenaces, so I've no issue with this

    Boxers are masters of selling themselves, rugby players tend to play it all down wanting to appear humble, boxers sell more tickets

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    I notice that in a recent promotional email from Saints Tommy Makinson was referred to as the world’s best winger and Luke Thompson as the world’s best prop so we’re probably not in a position to criticise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wakey_saint View Post
    I'd be interested to know why you think Lomax & Richardson were unimpressive as a pairing?

    Because he's got this weird agenda against Richardson; had it all last season, too.

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    David Fairleigh has to be one of best signings we have had. He came in maybe a little under the radar (with Peter Shiels?) but by heavens he was a player.
    But Big Mal was signed at his peak - I think the year after the Kangaroo Invincibles had been over here and he was a standout in that team as well.
    Last edited by Destry; 18th January 2019 at 20:12. Reason: Spelling

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    One of the best signings from Oz Saints have made in recent seasons for me was Darren Albert. He had great pace, a good all round winger who never let Saints down. Played a few games at full back. Also proved to be a good fullback from their he could see from the options he had in front of him. Pulled his ears back and set off. Jamie Lyon has to be the best for me. I don’t think he ever had a bad game in a Saints shirt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Over The Hill Saint View Post
    One of the best signings from Oz Saints have made in recent seasons for me was Darren Albert. He had great pace, a good all round winger who never let Saints down. Played a few games at full back. Also proved to be a good fullback from their he could see from the options he had in front of him. Pulled his ears back and set off. Jamie Lyon has to be the best for me. I don’t think he ever had a bad game in a Saints shirt.
    I’d struggle to think of a better all round Saints winger in my 35 years of watching. Grease lightning, great under the high ball and solid defence, sometimes cutting out attacks from the opposite wing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Because he's got this weird agenda against Richardson; had it all last season, too.
    I’d rather criticise Richardson for his crap performances than join the ‘he’s the next Sean Long’ bandwagon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wakey_saint View Post
    I'd be interested to know why you think Lomax & Richardson were unimpressive as a pairing?

    Lomax had possibly the best year he's had in a Saints shirt at 6...17 tries & 16 assists is a better return than any other half back in the league and I would disagree with anybody who said we needed to replace him playing there. As for Richardson, he is young and still has things to learn but last year was his first experience as a regular first team player and did very well considering. Not many half backs hit their peak at such a young age (it took Sean Long a couple of seasons first team experience to develop into the player he became) & Richardson has a very similar potential imo. As the team that scored the most tries and won the most games last year (along with the debate about Barba going missing for half a season), I would be interested to know how we managed to achieve that with an unimpressive half back combination?

    Also, as a few people have commented, Austin is a quality player but has sturggled with injuries and his form is inconsistent. Couple that with the fact he will pair with Brown this year and then have to form again with Widdop next year there is no guarantees they will be as successful as you would expect. I also dont know why, as a club, we would want to throw big money at players in positions when we already have adequate cover in. Granted if theo decides to leave we m,ay need an additional half back for 2020, but with another years experience behind Danny and if Jonny hits the form he showed last season I would be more than happy with that pairing.
    Maybe unimpressive is the wrong word but it didn’t work but that was mainly down to Richardson. Neither of them are capable of controlling a game, Lomax because he isn’t that type of half and Richardson because he isn’t very good. I’ve no problem with Lomax just Richardson. Aside from goal kicking I don’t think he did anything well last year and even that wasn’t brilliant. Imo Richardson cost us last year and if he has a similar season then we should be signing a scrum half.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintH517 View Post
    Maybe unimpressive is the wrong word but it didn’t work but that was mainly down to Richardson. Neither of them are capable of controlling a game, Lomax because he isn’t that type of half and Richardson because he isn’t very good. I’ve no problem with Lomax just Richardson. Aside from goal kicking I don’t think he did anything well last year and even that wasn’t brilliant. Imo Richardson cost us last year and if he has a similar season then we should be signing a scrum half.
    I think I agree with you, to a degree. Lomax is a great player but is he a half back leader? I miss Tommy Martin. He was a stand off and a half (see what I did there)

    I’m beginning to have doubts about Richardson. I think he is quite good but I’m not he is good enough to marshal the team. I hope he proves me wrong this year but I fear he will be some body who almost makes it, but isn’t quite at the top of the tree. I really hope I’m wrong because I would put Fages in the bracket I’m afraid

    Still, I know nothing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintH517 View Post
    Maybe unimpressive is the wrong word but it didn’t work but that was mainly down to Richardson. Neither of them are capable of controlling a game, Lomax because he isn’t that type of half and Richardson because he isn’t very good. I’ve no problem with Lomax just Richardson. Aside from goal kicking I don’t think he did anything well last year and even that wasn’t brilliant. Imo Richardson cost us last year and if he has a similar season then we should be signing a scrum half.
    Richardson (at times) last season could have been better and I think the majority of people would agree with that, but to pin the blame of last season’s failure on a kid who was in his first year as a first choice senior player is ridiculous imo

    As I said in my earlier post, Sean Long wasn’t the legendary talent he became when he first signed for us and took a couple of years to find his feet and develop and I think Richardson needs the same opportunity. Will he be the next Sean Long...who knows...but lad deserves longer than 1 season to develop and I’d rather see us do that than panic buy a replacement me don’t need.

    The addition of Coote should help game management as he is a more rounded player than Barba (not the same excitement factor but more consistent and a very smart player with experience and 1/halves) and he will probably provide more structure in the middle to how we play which I think will take some pressure off Danny too.

    Just out of interest...you have said “we should have signed a scrum half” and want one who can manage a game. Who was available (and a realistic target) we should have gone for who can control a game, a consistent performer and would be better than Danny?

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