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Thread: Challenge Cup - pay to play

  1. #51
    Starting A Programme Collection paulx2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    There will only be Superleague in 10 years everything else will be amateur with the way this RFL runs RL.
    I'd say closer to 3. The TV deal will be the end and some laughably blame the fans!

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  2. #52
    In The West Stand Dux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulx2 View Post
    Agree with most of this. The Rugby league got seduced by a southern stadium erecting some s@##ty statue and signed a deal to play there forever more based on that.

    When Wembley was shut who cared?? It went round the country and we could now have had cities bidding on it like Magic.

    The RFL are typical small time chip on their shoulder types......laughed at by Southerners but desperate to curry favour with them as soon as they build a statue. Persecuted by RU but as soon as they go pro....can't wait to help them out. Pathetic.

    If we ever left Wembley they'd probably rip that statue out and put one up of Dan Marino as they no longer need us now the NFL are in town.

    The RFL should have had the vision to build their own national stadium back when stadia were relatively cheap and grants were flying around. That would have required vision......a bit of a misnomer to the RFL.

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    Do you honestly think a statue has anything to do with this?

    There are some very compelling reasons to keep the event at Wembley. It's the last major connection the sport has with the capital and the commercial and media opportunities that come with that. It's a tradition dating back to the 1920s and tradition is arguably the one thing the cup still has going for it. It was fine going to other venues while Wembley was being rebuilt because that was done in the knowledge that the cup would be going back to Wembley when it was ready. I suspect moving it permanently would get quite a different response. For whatever reason the cup has lost its lustre recently, and that needs fixing, but leaving Wembley would seriously risk throwing the baby out with the bathwater, IMO.

  3. #53
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk paulscnthorpe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    In order to better promote the event, why don't they:

    in January
    Sell the top price ticket at a heavy discount - £70 to say £25 - but allow a team to be specified, if that team makes it to the final allocate a seat in that section,
    Have heavy discounts on boxes etc

    Slowly Ramp the price up as the final get near so if you wait till the semi you pay full price

    At the moment if you want to go as possible neutral you may as well wait until the semi to see who is likely to get there because they may end up sell the tickets off cheap a week before
    Spot on, you should be able to buy decent enough tickets for £25. Get it sold to neutrals

  4. #54
    Moderator Div's Avatar
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    Last couple of finals I have been as a neutral there were tickets galore outside from £5!!

  5. #55
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    I've considered going when Saints aren't playing but it has always been on when the railways and motorways are shut for maintenance (bank holiday weekend) . That's just too much shit to put up with.

    Haven't been to a Hull Friday eve game for ages for the same reason. M62 closed for maintenance for the return journey means getting back in the middle of the night. That's just too much shit to put up with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    Last couple of finals I have been as a neutral there were tickets galore outside from £5!!

    It could be free and it wouldn't fill, the price isn't the issue, people pay lots more for other,events so they find the money if they have to

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    Quote Originally Posted by L.S.F View Post
    I agree, the cup doesn't have much going for it but tradition is one of them and I'm not a fan of Wembley. A bit of creative marketing, ticket pricing and possible family/group deals would help, alongside not playing it on a bank holiday. Obviously far too difficult for the RFL to grasp but we can dream.
    Too difficult for the rfl? I got an email yesterday promoting the final and offering deals on tickets, free drink and program. I've seen posts on social media if you follow them, so they are trying, you can take a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.

    If rugby 'fans' turned up for these games they would sell, so we need to look closer to home than incorrectly assume the rfl are not trying

    This isn't defending them, I'd like a fresh approach, but that's different than most people simply claiming these things do not happen
    Last edited by Upside; 20th December 2018 at 10:13. Reason: Spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    Too difficult for the rfl? I got an email yesterday promoting the final and offering deals on tickets, free drink and program. I've seen posts on social media if you follow them, so they are trying, you can take a horse tomwater but you cannot make it drink.

    If rugby 'fans' turned up for these games they would sell, so we need to look closer to home than incorrectly assume the rfl are not trying

    This isn't defending them, I'd like a fresh approach, but that's different than most people simply claiming these things do not happen
    Where is tomwater?
    I had a friend called Tom who could not afford his water bill and was disconnected, I sent him a card "Get Well soon".

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    Quote Originally Posted by L.S.F View Post
    Which is a point I've made a few times. Why would people want to go when their isn't playing, and yes, I know there's people that enjoy going whoever plays. I'm just saying from a person point of view, and obviously others have the same attitude.
    I’ve been to a couple where Saints weren’t playing and enjoyed the occasion without any stress. What has stopped me going is repeated problems with the rail network on the Bank Holiday weekend. The timing is bad and they are going to do something about that although didn’t someone point out that the new date will clash with the start of school holidays and increased traffic?

    Being older, I think that the Challenge Cup is important. I also think the historic link with Wembley is important too. I suspect it’s a generational thing but I doubt that the Superleague trophy will be around in about 123 years. If we don’t value our heritage, why should anyone else?

    Anyway LSF, without being patronising, I’m enjoying your current posts. I’m personally trying to stay off here until the new season and actual games to discuss.

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    I dont think RL is facing problems that are that much different from many other sports.

    I just think that for some reasons fans don't value cup competitions any more and prefer the league / grand final formula.

    Look at the FA Cup, League Cup, UEFA cup in football which clubs don't take that seriously any more. Union's Pilkington Cup used to be their equivalent which doesnt feature now. The only cups that seem to be on teh up are the Champions League and Union's European Cup - interestingly they involve cups from different countries which is just what we seem to have stopped.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by headtackle View Post
    I dont think RL is facing problems that are that much different from many other sports.

    I just think that for some reasons fans don't value cup competitions any more and prefer the league / grand final formula.

    Look at the FA Cup, League Cup, UEFA cup in football which clubs don't take that seriously any more. Union's Pilkington Cup used to be their equivalent which doesnt feature now. The only cups that seem to be on teh up are the Champions League and Union's European Cup - interestingly they involve cups from different countries which is just what we seem to have stopped.
    The RL have not thought things through and has ended up fragmenting the sport and the roots of that lay with Richard Lewis. He was very fortunate in that he was seen as making the RFL very profitable by being there at the right time with the Sport England Funding which was given and not earned. After that we saw a decline in participation, expansion was limited and took decades.

    They didn't have the courage and commitment to work there socks off to create a sporting business model to get major sponsors on board. We only have 2 cup competitions with the Finals too close together, the Challenge Cup is always about the history and tradition, if we lose that then the games stature will go in further decline and there will be even less exposure to our sport.

  12. #62
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    The CC final is no longer the one-off 'grand day out' that it used to be. We now have MW, a second final, and trips to Perpignan, London, Toulouse and Toronto and even Red Star Belgrade, depending on who you follow!
    Maybe the RFL should be subbing the finalists (eg providing cost price travel maybe?) if they want a full Wembley, rather than charging certain teams to play there?

    I actually think that the problem is quite complex.
    Suttoner refers to Wembley being a 'generational thing'. I do wonder if the RFL have a similar mindset, and just don't get the fact that fans are starting to see things in a different light.

  13. #63
    In The South Stand Sean Day's Avatar
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    Just read an article quoting the Catalans chairman who says that they don’t intend to pay the figure asked for (€550,000) and they have written to the RFL asking them to change their stance

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    some more bad publicity for rugby league coming up team that won challenge cup no intention of paying money to defend it

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    Just read an article quoting the Catalans chairman who says that they don’t intend to pay the figure asked for (€550,000) and they have written to the RFL asking them to change their stance
    I hope they get them to change. You can imagine the press reports if Cats say they are not going to defend the cup because of RL costs/guarantees.

  16. #66
    In The South Stand Sean Day's Avatar
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    I was under the impression that for the Cup, as opposed to the GF, the finalists shared the vast majority of the gate money anyway.

    Update: it seems Catalans are adamant they won’t pay up and the only way they won’t compete is if they are thrown out. Good on them. What an absolute shambles. I’ll give it 2 years before SL breaks away
    Last edited by Sean Day; 4th January 2019 at 16:15.

  17. #67
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk DD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    Just read an article quoting the Catalans chairman who says that they don’t intend to pay the figure asked for (€550,000) and they have written to the RFL asking them to change their stance
    Couldn't agree with them more.

    Let's dissect this in simple terms.

    Catalans took say 2,000 to Wembley. Huddersfield would take about 5,000. That's a difference of 3,000.

    There were 40,000 empty seats at the 2018 Final.

    So what the RFL are saying is that they need to safeguard 3,000 out of potentially 40,000 empty seats and they are willing to virtually bar the French and Canadian clubs from the competition to do it.

    The Dragons should tell them to shove it, and then it would bring home to the nation what a disgrace our sport is, when the holders withdraw from the competition because they are being asked to pay £500,000 for the privilege of defending their trophy at Wembley, should their fans largely be unable to travel.

    Things are getting worse under Ralph Rimmer. The guy is coming across as an idiot, who is totally out of touch with reality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    Couldn't agree with them more.

    Let's dissect this in simple terms.

    Catalans took say 2,000 to Wembley. Huddersfield would take about 5,000. That's a difference of 3,000.

    There were 40,000 empty seats at the 2018 Final.

    So what the RFL are saying is that they need to safeguard 3,000 out of potentially 40,000 empty seats and they are willing to virtually bar the French and Canadian clubs from the competition to do it.

    The Dragons should tell them to shove it, and then it would bring home to the nation what a disgrace our sport is, when the holders withdraw from the competition because they are being asked to pay £500,000 for the privilege of defending their trophy at Wembley, should their fans largely be unable to travel.

    Things are getting worse under Ralph Rimmer. The guy is coming across as an idiot, who is totally out of touch with reality.
    Sport still struggling to dismantle its clothcap and whippet and/or struggling M62 sport image amongst a sizeable portion of the nations sports followers burns the clubs which could help challenge this perception.

    The RFL seemingly miss the elephant in the room that whilst the commercial profile of our sport is in the toilet, the blue chip partners it needs to pump money into the game might want to join up with forward looking, expanding organisations.

    In other words they’d run a mile from narrow minded, parochial buffons like Rimmer. Once again the RFL writing a manifesto for its own suicide. A total bunch of incompetent loons. There is also the point that you touched on that it’s conceivable that a majority of other clubs should have to pay a bond based on explanation provided by the RFL - what was the attendance for Sheffield vs Wigan and likewise London vs Leeds....? Likewise Wigan sold barely 7000 to for tge Murrayfield final when their speccies thought they’d get beaten.

    Another piece of RFL incompetence that brings shame on the sport.
    Last edited by eddiewaringsflatcap; 4th January 2019 at 20:55.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    Just read an article quoting the Catalans chairman who says that they don’t intend to pay the figure asked for (€550,000) and they have written to the RFL asking them to change their stance
    Probably the first big decision that Rimmer has had to make or sign off.

  20. #70
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    BBCs final comment is thought provoking

    If rugby league cannot afford to run the challenge cup in London maybe it should rethink its location

    Have the changes, which improve things IMO come to late? I fear it's just slowing the slide.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    Couldn't agree with them more.

    Let's dissect this in simple terms.

    Catalans took say 2,000 to Wembley. Huddersfield would take about 5,000. That's a difference of 3,000.

    There were 40,000 empty seats at the 2018 Final.

    So what the RFL are saying is that they need to safeguard 3,000 out of potentially 40,000 empty seats and they are willing to virtually bar the French and Canadian clubs from the competition to do it.

    The Dragons should tell them to shove it, and then it would bring home to the nation what a disgrace our sport is, when the holders withdraw from the competition because they are being asked to pay £500,000 for the privilege of defending their trophy at Wembley, should their fans largely be unable to travel.

    Things are getting worse under Ralph Rimmer. The guy is coming across as an idiot, who is totally out of touch with reality.
    So the RL want GBP 167 for each of the seats differential between Cats and Hudds. Good point of view DD.

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    Whatever way you look at it this is awful. Did they have to pay last year?

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    Vote of NO CONFIDENCE IN THE GOVERNING BODY, can this be done?? I,m sure a long list could be put together of wrong decisions etc. I would say wrong strategies too but I dont think they have any strategies what so ever. They are making our game a complete laughing stock and I for one am seriously fed up with them now. The problem with the RFL is that it is an old boys club who vote each others places on the board/roles. KICK THEM OUT!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shady Saint View Post
    Vote of NO CONFIDENCE IN THE GOVERNING BODY, can this be done?? I,m sure a long list could be put together of wrong decisions etc. I would say wrong strategies too but I dont think they have any strategies what so ever. They are making our game a complete laughing stock and I for one am seriously fed up with them now. The problem with the RFL is that it is an old boys club who vote each others places on the board/roles. KICK THEM OUT!!
    As they seem to be pretty much unaccountable, would be difficult. As eluded to by your post, the above posts (all super posts by the way), I'd say a lot of us have pretty much had enough.

    In the cold light of day, as DD & EWFC have said, it's beyond a farce. It'll come out in the mainstream press fully soon enough & we will look ridiculous once again. Just in time for the start of our season (summer rugby that starts in the depths of winter) & also, the Six Nations starts same weekend. We really don't help ourselves.

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    How was that figure calculated? Do they get it back if they lose but not if they win?

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