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Thread: Justin Holbrook Contract

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    Undoubtedly Holbrook has been a breath of fresh air through the club after what become a pretty full and apathetic club after a very long period of dull Rugby that started long before Kieron Cunningham ever placed a pair of headphones on.

    However, I still have some reservations about Holbrook. The back end of this season looked as though we’d been worked out somewhat and we seemed to lack a Plan B at times and since he’s been here we’ve played in three big games, lost all three and you could make a good argument that team selection in all three hasn’t been good enough. It’s not anywhere enough for me to want him to go but I feel this year is the year he’ll truly be judged on. Not because it’s his final year of his contract but more because this is his team now. They’re his signings coming in this off-season and they’ve played under him now for long enough for him to have put his stamp on the side.
    This is a fair assessment and I am sure JH would agree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    Undoubtedly Holbrook has been a breath of fresh air through the club after what become a pretty full and apathetic club after a very long period of dull Rugby that started long before Kieron Cunningham ever placed a pair of headphones on.

    However, I still have some reservations about Holbrook. The back end of this season looked as though we’d been worked out somewhat and we seemed to lack a Plan B at times and since he’s been here we’ve played in three big games, lost all three and you could make a good argument that team selection in all three hasn’t been good enough. It’s not anywhere enough for me to want him to go but I feel this year is the year he’ll truly be judged on. Not because it’s his final year of his contract but more because this is his team now. They’re his signings coming in this off-season and they’ve played under him now for long enough for him to have put his stamp on the side.
    Sometimes I wonder if he is too close to the team and as a result he lacks a bid of judgement for the big games. He had lots of time to do some rotation with the players but i got the impression that the first 17 wanted to soldier on and see the fixtures through, we had a couple of players with niggly injuries with Barba being the major one but Holbrook kept them playing and I'm not sure that was the right way to go. We also had a drop in form of Richardson when Barba went AWOL, perhaps a couple of games using Matty Smith would have been a good option.

    However I think Holbrook was honest in his end of season review, when asked he thought the club failed despite winning the LLS, what we have to realise though is that he is a "coach still in working progress" and hopefully he is on a steep learning curve for next season. The other side of the coin though is that if he gets us to be Grand Final Winners then the Australian Dollar will come knocking at his door for certain.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROBBO View Post
    KC is a relative of mine. He wasn't the best of coaches and I believe he got the position to early. As a player and loyal servant there weren't many better. Myself and my wife stopped going to the matches when he was coach due to the vile and vulgar comments that were made towards him. Supporters can at times go over the top.
    Unfortunately KC was clearly not right for the job, It's debatable if that was a timing thing or not and I suppose we'll never know the answer, but we definitely needed to make the change.
    But anyone who doubts what he was as a player isn't worth taking seriously. He was a freak and one of the most naturally gifted players we've ever produced.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by ROBBO View Post
    KC is a relative of mine. He wasn't the best of coaches and I believe he got the position to early. As a player and loyal servant there weren't many better. Myself and my wife stopped going to the matches when he was coach due to the vile and vulgar comments that were made towards him. Supporters can at times go over the top.
    I can understand your position if you have a connection to him.

    I don't think his coaching ability was the problem. It was a combination of:

    1) His seeming arrogance about his playing style, that this was the only way and he wasn't going to change it for anything (the seeming arrogance may have been a defence mechanism);
    2) Openly criticising young/inexperienced players for one or two nervy mistakes in games whilst singing the praises of older players he was matey with, but who were stinking the place out (eg, Wilkin, who was having a wretched period of awful form);
    3) Sneering at fans who were critical of both his playing style, man-management and the bunker mentality he was building up around himself

    A bit of humility, and bit of honesty and consistency in his approach to players, and trying to play a more 'Saints' style of rugby would have had the fans rooting for him to succeed, not demanding he be sacked.


    Saying all that, he was one of the best players I've ever seen play. He redefined the No9 role, had amazing power, strength, rugby brain, and was a match-winner who could turn a game on his own.

    His terrible coaching period here doesn't diminish his playing legacy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by L.S.F View Post
    Jesus, I'm expecting a knock at the door from the STASI this week for daring to speak out against our glorious leader.
    I'm smirking at the irony.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The frenchman View Post
    I believe he had interest last year from the NRL but wanted to see out his contract
    Fishing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    I can understand your position if you have a connection to him.

    I don't think his coaching ability was the problem. It was a combination of:

    1) His seeming arrogance about his playing style, that this was the only way and he wasn't going to change it for anything (the seeming arrogance may have been a defence mechanism);
    2) Openly criticising young/inexperienced players for one or two nervy mistakes in games whilst singing the praises of older players he was matey with, but who were stinking the place out (eg, Wilkin, who was having a wretched period of awful form);
    3) Sneering at fans who were critical of both his playing style, man-management and the bunker mentality he was building up around himself

    A bit of humility, and bit of honesty and consistency in his approach to players, and trying to play a more 'Saints' style of rugby would have had the fans rooting for him to succeed, not demanding he be sacked.


    Saying all that, he was one of the best players I've ever seen play. He redefined the No9 role, had amazing power, strength, rugby brain, and was a match-winner who could turn a game on his own.

    His terrible coaching period here doesn't diminish his playing legacy.
    I'll have no 2

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    Quote Originally Posted by notawiginfan View Post
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    Pathetic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    Unfortunately KC was clearly not right for the job, It's debatable if that was a timing thing or not and I suppose we'll never know the answer, but we definitely needed to make the change.
    But anyone who doubts what he was as a player isn't worth taking seriously. He was a freak and one of the most naturally gifted players we've ever produced.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    Exactly.

    It didn't go well with him as head coach. I believe the job was too big, too soon.

    I can separate the time he had with us as a player because he was an outstanding player, unstoppable at times.

    He often used to play with bad injuries as well. He didn't train all week before the 2000 Grand Final.

    Those who put the likes of Lowes & Newton up there with him in terms of quality, are deluding themselves. He was a universe ahead of them.

    He got us out of the doo doo on numerous occasions as well.


    As for Holbrook, the style of play is better, but bar Cas where we were unlucky in the 2017 league semi, (which we lost anyway) we haven't turned up when it comes to the crunch, which is no improvement on where we were at under Kieron. The two semi finals we were in this season, we were atrocious.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    As for Holbrook, the style of play is better, but bar Cas where we were unlucky in the 2017 league semi, (which we lost anyway) we haven't turned up when it comes to the crunch, which is no improvement on where we were at under Kieron. The two semi finals we were in this season, we were atrocious.
    Yeah, there's definitely more pressure on Holbrook to deliver this season. 90% of last season was great but we won no major trophy and we had the best player in the league in our team. He's got a good squad to work with this year and needs to use it wisely and make sure we peak when it matters. A lack of final appearance would be very disappointing in 2019 as it was this year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    I can understand your position if you have a connection to him.

    I don't think his coaching ability was the problem. It was a combination of:

    1) His seeming arrogance about his playing style, that this was the only way and he wasn't going to change it for anything (the seeming arrogance may have been a defence mechanism);
    2) Openly criticising young/inexperienced players for one or two nervy mistakes in games whilst singing the praises of older players he was matey with, but who were stinking the place out (eg, Wilkin, who was having a wretched period of awful form);
    3) Sneering at fans who were critical of both his playing style, man-management and the bunker mentality he was building up around himself

    A bit of humility, and bit of honesty and consistency in his approach to players, and trying to play a more 'Saints' style of rugby would have had the fans rooting for him to succeed, not demanding he be sacked.


    Saying all that, he was one of the best players I've ever seen play. He redefined the No9 role, had amazing power, strength, rugby brain, and was a match-winner who could turn a game on his own.

    His terrible coaching period here doesn't diminish his playing legacy.
    Agree with all of this. Couldn’t have said it better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notawiginfan View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tez the Saint View Post
    100%. McManus was the one who made the decision. Cunningham and Rushy weren’t sure but the chairman had the final say made the decision. Ultimately he was a young, inexperienced head coach in his first job. He came out fighting and snapped when he shouldn’t have done but he hadn’t dealt with it before. Young players make mistake, young coaches also make mistakes.

    It’s not just Cunningham though, for me there’s a line of respect and I think as a support base, it gets crossed too often these days. Yes, social media plays a part and I might get some stick for the comments but some of the things I read on here, and have witnessed at the games over the last couple of years, doesn’t sit right with me.
    I fully agree with you. It’s easy to hind behind an anonymous fake name, such as pasty, and hurl abuse. Some of the name calling of players is deeply disappointing. For example, in my critiquing Wilkin as a scrum half is one thing, referring to him as “Captain Coffee” is another. I have no doubt that Cunningham as a coach did his best and wanted to succeed but he didn’t. As a player he was outstanding.

    This forum is often just a bit too silly for its own good

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Exactly.

    It didn't go well with him as head coach. I believe the job was too big, too soon.

    I can separate the time he had with us as a player because he was an outstanding player, unstoppable at times.

    He often used to play with bad injuries as well. He didn't train all week before the 2000 Grand Final.

    Those who put the likes of Lowes & Newton up there with him in terms of quality, are deluding themselves. He was a universe ahead of them.

    He got us out of the doo doo on numerous occasions as well.


    As for Holbrook, the style of play is better, but bar Cas where we were unlucky in the 2017 league semi, (which we lost anyway) we haven't turned up when it comes to the crunch, which is no improvement on where we were at under Kieron. The two semi finals we were in this season, we were atrocious.
    When KC took the head coach, every Tom Dick and Harry knew the appointment was too early for him, the dogged determination was there but that became the downfall of him because he had very little man management and was more apparent as he didn't integrate well with Lolesi and Long.

    Holbrook is the opposite, excellent at man management but somewhat a bit hesitant on his decision making for the big games. He has a decent squad of players now but he's still got to find the right mix for differing game situations and I think he needs to be tougher with the players to find the right mental toughness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    When KC took the head coach, every Tom Dick and Harry knew the appointment was too early for him, the dogged determination was there but that became the downfall of him because he had very little man management and was more apparent as he didn't integrate well with Lolesi and Long.

    Holbrook is the opposite, excellent at man management but somewhat a bit hesitant on his decision making for the big games. He has a decent squad of players now but he's still got to find the right mix for differing game situations and I think he needs to be tougher with the players to find the right mental toughness.
    Think that's bang on & put much better than what I posted

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    Yeah, there's definitely more pressure on Holbrook to deliver this season. 90% of last season was great but we won no major trophy and we had the best player in the league in our team. He's got a good squad to work with this year and needs to use it wisely and make sure we peak when it matters. A lack of final appearance would be very disappointing in 2019 as it was this year.
    Agree. The pressure is on to deliver.

    Not bothered if it's challenge cup or SL trophy but we need one or the other next season.

    Maybe a final appearance at the very least to get over this semi final problem
    Last edited by Ralph Fridge; 26th November 2018 at 20:06. Reason: SPG

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    As for Holbrook, the style of play is better, but bar Cas where we were unlucky in the 2017 league semi, (which we lost anyway) we haven't turned up when it comes to the crunch, which is no improvement on where we were at under Kieron. The two semi finals we were in this season, we were atrocious.
    That Catalan game will hurt him because the players just didn’t adapt. They made the same mistakes for 40 minutes, kept throwing the ball under the floor, didn’t fancy completing a set, handed Catalan possession. Had they stopped doing that within the first 30 minutes, they would have still had a chance but it didn’t change and Catalan got too far ahead. They weren’t able to recognise what was losing them the game and you’ve got to think that’s a concern really.

    I didn’t think his selection worked against Warrington but I’m not sure how big an impact Peyroux had on his thinking. I’m not sure how many minutes he played, 20 maybe but if he knew that he’d struggle to get through the game, we lose a lot of strike there if he’s not playing so I can see why he’d want Thompson, LMS, Lees, Ashworth in there instead of Fages or Amor to balance that up. They’re four very similar players though and I thought we ended up being far too one dimensional on the night and ended up being too one out with the ball, not enough support around the ball. Lots of field position but I thought we lacked a ball player in the forwards. If Peyroux is fully fit, maybe he’d have changed his selection. Only he’ll know that. Roby not being fully fit didn’t help us either.

    I think the biggest challenge for him and the players though is mentally, we’ve lost a couple of big games now because the same players have made very similar mistakes, particularly on that right edge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tez the Saint View Post
    That Catalan game will hurt him because the players just didn’t adapt. They made the same mistakes for 40 minutes, kept throwing the ball under the floor, didn’t fancy completing a set, handed Catalan possession. Had they stopped doing that within the first 30 minutes, they would have still had a chance but it didn’t change and Catalan got too far ahead. They weren’t able to recognise what was losing them the game and you’ve got to think that’s a concern really.

    I didn’t think his selection worked against Warrington but I’m not sure how big an impact Peyroux had on his thinking. I’m not sure how many minutes he played, 20 maybe but if he knew that he’d struggle to get through the game, we lose a lot of strike there if he’s not playing so I can see why he’d want Thompson, LMS, Lees, Ashworth in there instead of Fages or Amor to balance that up. They’re four very similar players though and I thought we ended up being far too one dimensional on the night and ended up being too one out with the ball, not enough support around the ball. Lots of field position but I thought we lacked a ball player in the forwards. If Peyroux is fully fit, maybe he’d have changed his selection. Only he’ll know that. Roby not being fully fit didn’t help us either.

    I think the biggest challenge for him and the players though is mentally, we’ve lost a couple of big games now because the same players have made very similar mistakes, particularly on that right edge.
    But it is all relative. If you don't win the trophy then you lose a big game. Have Warrington got a bigger mental battle on their hands because they lost 2 'bigger' games than we did for example?

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