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Thread: Toronto

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southport Saint View Post
    London will bring nothing to super league
    Maybe, but they will bring something to rugby league in general especially down in the south region. I always thought Toronto needed more time in the championship until they can get around 5 Canadians in the side to give them identity rather than a team in name only.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    I hope London do OK in SL, it'd be good to see them re-establish themselves as a fixture. And I hope Toronto manage to retain the enthusiasm and support, and get promotion next year. If the sport is to attract higher income from sponsorship & TV deals (and better coverage by the media) then we need to be more than a predominantly Lancs/Yorks-dominated sport, which can be portrayed as a regional near-irrelevance.

    I'd like to ideally see 14 teams in SL, but as there's hardly enough quality players to populate 12 squads, that is unfortunately not a goer at present.
    I agree, but as hard as London worked last night, they are not a SL side. I hope they have the money to strengthen their squad they certainly deserved their victory. Encouraging as well when the commentators were mentioning some of the lower league clubs that players had come from.

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    London may well be a decent addition to Super League on the field, and may well help to continue the good work developing players in the South East.

    However, they aren't going to attract crowds because people down here simply don't care about the game. The fact they've been promoted will do little either, because the concept of Super League means nothing to people. This has all been done before. They've moved around, they've tried different areas, different marketing gimmicks, different names, etc. There is just not the appetite for a rugby league side in London that will attract crowds of anything more than a few thousand.

    But, does that matter? If the game was red-hot, had a great structure and had big clubs punching their weight would we really care about London's crowds? If Wigan, Leeds, Saints, Wire and Hull were all playing good RL and being competitive, and were all pulling in between 12-16k a week, should we care about London's crowds? If the Top 5 system brings back true competition for places for the whole season, and means that clubs sat in mid table raise their game because 5th is the benchmark and not 8th, should we care about London's crowds?

    I didn't sit there watching Liverpool v Man City yesterday worrying about the fact that Bournemouth are in a European place despite only having a stadium that holds 10k. Because it doesn't matter. It would only matter if the league was riddled with issues and a new clubs crap crowds added to those issues.

    If the league is working, if the structure is right, if the clubs that should get good crowds are getting good crowds, etc, we won't care about London's crowds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    I've been a critic of the Broncos in the past based on the assumption that they should automatically be granted a place in Super League. It was risible that the RFL ever believed it could crack London when much more well run sports acknowledge that the capital is a complex market, one that has tribal loyalties that run through it to boot. Put simply the argument for a flagship London team sustained irrespective of merit were flawed and a fantasy too many wanted to believe in.

    The difference this time is London have won back the place that they lost through a promotion mechanism available to all. In accordance with the more favoured principle of meritocracy by most British sports fans, the Bronocs have achieved their rise to SL the hard way.

    I think this demonstrates the London club is more soundly managed these days; I think the reality check that came with relegation necessitated that the club had to find its level and independently manage itself to a stronger position without fly-by-night sugar daddies or the sustained goodwill of the game.

    I'm pleased they are up. It feels like they will be a much more sustainable operation; I expect they will have learned some valuable lessons through relegation which will extend better approach to how they recruit, manage their supporter base and corporate profile.

    Its easy to be sniffy about their current home/profile but this is unfortunately just a reflection of the sports position these days. For too long dreamers thought the sport was something it wasn't and even worse, believed that the RFL could deliver a strategy to grow the game. By standing on their own two feet and getting promotion the Bronco's feel much more authentic and not the walking PR disaster they were last time.

    Hopefully they'll go ok and the game will benefit from increased corporate/media exposure that comes with a team in the capital that's earned its place on merit.
    Is the profile of London something the Hearns could be tasked with?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    London may well be a decent addition to Super League on the field, and may well help to continue the good work developing players in the South East.

    However, they aren't going to attract crowds because people down here simply don't care about the game. The fact they've been promoted will do little either, because the concept of Super League means nothing to people. This has all been done before. They've moved around, they've tried different areas, different marketing gimmicks, different names, etc. There is just not the appetite for a rugby league side in London that will attract crowds of anything more than a few thousand.

    But, does that matter? If the game was red-hot, had a great structure and had big clubs punching their weight would we really care about London's crowds? If Wigan, Leeds, Saints, Wire and Hull were all playing good RL and being competitive, and were all pulling in between 12-16k a week, should we care about London's crowds? If the Top 5 system brings back true competition for places for the whole season, and means that clubs sat in mid table raise their game because 5th is the benchmark and not 8th, should we care about London's crowds?

    I didn't sit there watching Liverpool v Man City yesterday worrying about the fact that Bournemouth are in a European place despite only having a stadium that holds 10k. Because it doesn't matter. It would only matter if the league was riddled with issues and a new clubs crap crowds added to those issues.

    If the league is working, if the structure is right, if the clubs that should get good crowds are getting good crowds, etc, we won't care about London's crowds.
    I had the misfoprtune of watching the City Liverpool game, what a boring pile of rubbish. I think there was one effort on target the whole game! There was not one iota of excitement to be had for the entire game. Truly awful. Worse than watching Saints when KC was in charge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    I've been a critic of the Broncos in the past based on the assumption that they should automatically be granted a place in Super League. It was risible that the RFL ever believed it could crack London when much more well run sports acknowledge that the capital is a complex market, one that has tribal loyalties that run through it to boot. Put simply the argument for a flagship London team sustained irrespective of merit were flawed and a fantasy too many wanted to believe in.

    The difference this time is London have won back the place that they lost through a promotion mechanism available to all. In accordance with the more favoured principle of meritocracy by most British sports fans, the Bronocs have achieved their rise to SL the hard way.

    I think this demonstrates the London club is more soundly managed these days; I think the reality check that came with relegation necessitated that the club had to find its level and independently manage itself to a stronger position without fly-by-night sugar daddies or the sustained goodwill of the game.

    I'm pleased they are up. It feels like they will be a much more sustainable operation; I expect they will have learned some valuable lessons through relegation which will extend better approach to how they recruit, manage their supporter base and corporate profile.

    Its easy to be sniffy about their current home/profile but this is unfortunately just a reflection of the sports position these days. For too long dreamers thought the sport was something it wasn't and even worse, believed that the RFL could deliver a strategy to grow the game. By standing on their own two feet and getting promotion the Bronco's feel much more authentic and not the walking PR disaster they were last time.

    Hopefully they'll go ok and the game will benefit from increased corporate/media exposure that comes with a team in the capital that's earned its place on merit.
    Spot on mate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    I hope London do OK in SL, it'd be good to see them re-establish themselves as a fixture. And I hope Toronto manage to retain the enthusiasm and support, and get promotion next year. If the sport is to attract higher income from sponsorship & TV deals (and better coverage by the media) then we need to be more than a predominantly Lancs/Yorks-dominated sport, which can be portrayed as a regional near-irrelevance.

    I'd like to ideally see 14 teams in SL, but as there's hardly enough quality players to populate 12 squads, that is unfortunately not a goer at present.
    The originsl post asked or aimed to generate discussion around this topic.

    Do the Wolfpack fans really know the difference yet? Would they get more enjoyment learning the game watching the Wolfpack win in the championship. I guess the fans have never heard of a place called St. Helens or Wigan but I bet they know of York. So maybe this is to their benefit in the long run. I think fans will not be affected positively or negatively as they won't know the difference, but the owners might. Will they maintain their interest?

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    If we don't have enough players now, how will less opportunities items increase this?

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    I do agree Gray re their crowds. If they can get 3000 in each game and that’s sustainable for them then who cares? Like you say, many of our long established heartland clubs don’t do much better. They’ve gone down, re-evaluated and scaled themselves down a bit but they’ve also got teams operating at under 16s, 18s and 19s so they are doing things properly at least. I know Toronto would bring different benefits but they don’t have those roots

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    To a certain extent Toronto reaped what they sowed with their style of play and expectation.They will be much better in 12 months time and should be able yo get automatic promotion.
    Learned comment from The Don

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    Toronto peaked too early just like us but will no doubt learn from the experience and know with straight P/R next year they should make it next time.

    Will be interesting watching London this time round. Wish them well but still not sure how they will raise their profile and attract decent crowds.

    Back to Toronto. Given the financial problems and lack of interest at Salford wonder what odds the wolfpack buying out the Salford franchise and creeping in by the back door.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    To a certain extent Toronto reaped what they sowed with their style of play and expectation.They will be much better in 12 months time and should be able yo get automatic promotion.
    Long term it may be a blessing. If the owner pulls out his money this year then it's proof to me they shouldn't have gone up anyway. We don't want another owner who puts money in then walks away leaving the team in the sh1t

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    Long term it may be a blessing. If the owner pulls out his money this year then it's proof to me they shouldn't have gone up anyway. We don't want another owner who puts money in then walks away leaving the team in the sh1t
    He is supposedly talking about putting money into London Skolars with a view to taking them to Philadelphia. I'm not sure why he would re-locate them, but I can only think of it as a detriment to RL in the London area if he does.

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    Rumours via SM press that Brian McDermott to take over as Toronto coach next season.
    Humans are more concerned with having than being.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    Rumours via SM press that Brian McDermott to take over as Toronto coach next season.
    They said on Sky last week, that, that is the rumour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    Rumours via SM press that Brian McDermott to take over as Toronto coach next season.
    That may be a good fit at the moment, he used to coach USA so has an understanding of North America and RL

    His style may suit them at that level, enough to gain promotion

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    I think the better of two evils is London but they are light years away of what is needed. We could have lost Salford or Hull KR. We have lost Widnes. I just cannot think this situation is an improvement. /I cast my mind to Bradford, even Halifax. Surely more potential.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    To a certain extent Toronto reaped what they sowed with their style of play and expectation.They will be much better in 12 months time and should be able yo get automatic promotion.
    They still need to get through a playoff series though Don and win on the final day else it will be this season all over again.
    "Never write off the Saints!!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by southernsaint7 View Post
    Is the profile of London something the Hearns could be tasked with?
    We need to remember that the Hearns are primarily events management specialists and there's an important difference between that and overall administration of a sports organisation.

    I think it's likely they may have some strong ideas on how to drive the profile of the London club but this must be offset against the fact that it feels like the game is 'damaged goods' at the moment - Its blown its credibility numerous times and clubs - especially London - suffer when that happens.

    Its going to take time, effort and intelligence to raise the profile of London and indeed the game as a whole. Rugby League just doesn't seem as relevant to wider communities in the same way it des in say Wigan or St. Helens and we need to change this ASAP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    Long term it may be a blessing. If the owner pulls out his money this year then it's proof to me they shouldn't have gone up anyway. We don't want another owner who puts money in then walks away leaving the team in the sh1t
    why should he pull his money out.

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    Default Meanwhile in NewYork.


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    A little surprised Wilkin is going after Toronto failed to get promoted. I know he’s probably on good money, but I wondered he might think ‘what have I done’ when running out at Barrow and Rochdale. But good luck to him.
    Humans are more concerned with having than being.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    A little surprised Wilkin is going after Toronto failed to get promoted. I know he’s probably on good money, but I wondered he might think ‘what have I done’ when running out at Barrow and Rochdale. But good luck to him.
    I think overall Wilkin has been good for us, but he is 35 in a couple of weeks. Maybe a little slower pace will suit him now.

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    I’m gonna stick my neck out here and say I think the issue with Toronto lies with coach. Obviously unable to resolve the discipline issues that have plagued them. Canadians prefer sport that is in your face and aggressive, but you can be aggressive and be disciplined. If they win promotion next season, they will struggle in SL if they can’t change that

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