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Thread: The Morning After The Night Before..

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    Default The Morning After The Night Before..

    How are we all?
    With a nights sleep has anyone changed their views on what happened?
    TBH I am still equally disappointed and angry. It’s never good to post just after a game (like that) but it’s therapeutic I guess.
    My thoughts today. As a team collectively we did not turn up. There was the odd exceptions Luke, LMS come to mind. My concerns are we did not have a plan B. We don’t seem to be able to play more than one way and teams seemed to have sussed us now. We seemed surprised by Catalans season long tactics. It was like we had never seen them play before. We have been shown up in the middle we are not big enough. We over rely on Luke who is slowly running out of gas. I worry if we do not address replacing at least one prop for an out and out bull. I’m not going to pick on individuals as I do think the team wins together and lose together. However I felt Barba was very poor. Superstars shine in games like this. He did the opposite. I know for him to play well we need a good base, but I just think he hid. I’m not shouting for getting rid but I’m not sure what’s going on with him in the last few games. I think JH was shown to be lacking a bit in not being able to regroup the team. All that said. If we had clicked as we have done this season we would have pushed them, if not even won. I am trying to put it down to a bad day at the office. But part of me thinks things (some players and our tactics) need to change.
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    What surprised me was just how big the Catalan players are most of them are huge I looked at our team and we have no real size other than walmsley the 2 big props is a must. One of the Catalan players looked like the incredible hulk the way he played it could of been him!!!!!!!!!

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    It is important not to confuse size for strength but the weight of each Catalan forward was the key they knocked us back every time. We have a more athletic mobile pack probably by design which was certainly caught out in that first half with all the possession we gifted them.
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    Just got to move on.

    Hopefully the players are back in this morning and ready to respond quickly to that defeat.
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    I think we got well and truly bullied in the middle, simple as that. All of their sets seemed to finish on our 20 and all of ours were finishing in our own half, we were territorially hammered. They were getting quick play the balls in attack and managing to slow us down when we had the ball. They played us perfectly and were deserved winners. I imagine a lot of soul searching will be going in today within the squad and coaching staff and they need a long, hard think about how to play against those tactics in the coming weeks as any team watching that yesterday will fancy their chances of beating us up through the middle.

    As for Barba, no he hasn't been as good lately as the first few months of the season but there is only so much he could have done yesterday with the lack of possession and field position we had. He was far from being our biggest problem yesterday.
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    our lack of pack size ,in light of AW's absence, has increasingly been exposed in recent games but prior to yesterday we have been doing just enough to scrape home . The likes of Amor and Douglas are simply not good enough and this was demonstrated yesterday. Little we can do to solve the pack issues this season so we have to muddle through .
    Much has been said about Barba's recent form and he is either playing injured or can't be arsed anymore. We need to know what his happening with him for next season. If he is injured , rest him for a couple of games. I just hope that yesterday is not the start of a spectacular implosion and the season is left in ruins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    I think we got well and truly bullied in the middle, simple as that. All of their sets seemed to finish on our 20 and all of ours were finishing in our own half, we were territorially hammered. They were getting quick play the balls in attack and managing to slow us down when we had the ball. They played us perfectly and were deserved winners. I imagine a lot of soul searching will be going in today within the squad and coaching staff and they need a long, hard think about how to play against those tactics in the coming weeks as any team watching that yesterday will fancy their chances of beating us up through the middle.

    As for Barba, no he hasn't been as good lately as the first few months of the season but there is only so much he could have done yesterday with the lack of possession and field position we had. He was far from being our biggest problem yesterday.
    Also - if you watch the match back again they ran into Roby up the middle in the first 10/15 minutes and he was knackered as a result - superhuman though he is - he was fatigued for patches of the game. Again - good tactics from Catalan using their strength. They more than Saints have totally transformed their play. Early on in the season they were an absolute shambles but now they’ve got their players back and have cut out their poor discipline and cut down on their errors they look as powerful as anyone. We’ve ridiculed McNamara on here but he deserves immense credit for this.

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    I think we need to give a lot of credit to the Catalans rather than dwell on our poor performance, for me they (Catalans) are the form team at the moment and would have beaten Warrington yesterday. Friday will be a good test as Huddersfield will try and make it a game played down the middle, it will be interesting to see if there is any adjustment in our play, I expect a better line speed in defence and more energy in our forwards.

    I can't see Percival or Makinson having poor games as what they served up on Sunday, win the game on Friday and rotate 1 or 2 players per game after that. Nice if we can get a forecast for the return of Walmsley we desperately need him now we have been found out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    How are we all?
    With a nights sleep has anyone changed their views on what happened?
    TBH I am still equally disappointed and angry. It’s never good to post just after a game (like that) but it’s therapeutic I guess.
    My thoughts today. As a team collectively we did not turn up. There was the odd exceptions Luke, LMS come to mind. My concerns are we did not have a plan B. We don’t seem to be able to play more than one way and teams seemed to have sussed us now. We seemed surprised by Catalans season long tactics. It was like we had never seen them play before. We have been shown up in the middle we are not big enough. We over rely on Luke who is slowly running out of gas. I worry if we do not address replacing at least one prop for an out and out bull. I’m not going to pick on individuals as I do think the team wins together and lose together. However I felt Barba was very poor. Superstars shine in games like this. He did the opposite. I know for him to play well we need a good base, but I just think he hid. I’m not shouting for getting rid but I’m not sure what’s going on with him in the last few games. I think JH was shown to be lacking a bit in not being able to regroup the team. All that said. If we had clicked as we have done this season we would have pushed them, if not even won. I am trying to put it down to a bad day at the office. But part of me thinks things (some players and our tactics) need to change.
    I think the same as before. The use of pointless social media such as twitter means there unfortunate wild vicissitudes of opinion that are often embarrassing or cringe worthy for those that post them.

    Already covered my thoughts on yesterday on another thread; I think the big thing that is going unnoticed is that Saints tactics look a bit stale. I understand people obsessing on how the Catalans pack bossed the match; clearly it was dispiriting and a big worry heading into the Super 8's but I also feel everyone is/has wised up to Saints style of play.

    The template has become easy to read. Wingers looking for quick play the balls/exiting on tackle one and two, Thompson or another prop on 3rd tackle before spinning it out on the 4th with Wilkin a link man for the backs. If Saints are 40 (or less) out Lomax takes the ball (always on the left) with Barba ghosting round the back. The team plays for rapid speed but its become a bit predictable to be honest.

    This is one of the reason I disagree with the OP's criticisms of Barba. Players like that need some space; yesterday he had none whatsoever and it was compounded by the fact Catalans read every Saints move. Unfortunately, the likes of social media are a platform for emotional rants about 'lack of interest,' 'passion' and other types of shite that make Britain First look the bastion of common sense and balance.

    Holbrook commented that he thought Saints overplayed yesterday and I think he is correct. Makinson needed to wise up in particular; he killed momentum at one stage by continually crabbing from east to west and it allowed Catalans forwards to set up to hit the next man up. There are times when a winger needs to go direct and take the tackle and yesterday was an example.

    Whilst the result is disappointing there are some silver linings. The match may help younger players such as Richardson who needs more experience of how to handle those type of matches ahead of the big games at the end of the season. Having been showed up on TV it's also an opportunity to address a weakness through the Super 8's with an added motivator of missing out on Wembley.

    I was very disappointed with yesterday but I think the players will be devastated. I think its the time to get behind the team; they knew yesterday was a massive let down and tubthumping about the defeat won't help. Need to look forward now and not back.
    Last edited by eddiewaringsflatcap; 6th August 2018 at 10:55. Reason: Spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I think we need to give a lot of credit to the Catalans rather than dwell on our poor performance, for me they (Catalans) are the form team at the moment and would have beaten Warrington yesterday. Friday will be a good test as Huddersfield will try and make it a game played down the middle, it will be interesting to see if there is any adjustment in our play, I expect a better line speed in defence and more energy in our forwards.

    I can't see Percival or Makinson having poor games as what they served up on Sunday, win the game on Friday and rotate 1 or 2 players per game after that. Nice if we can get a forecast for the return of Walmsley we desperately need him now we have been found out.
    I hope Morgan is fit for Friday as yesterday proved that TM is not a centre

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    Well in 4 days we should know implosion or not as we will be playing a resurgent Huddersfield side that will have watched our performance and how we were muscled out of the game yesterday and will be truly up for the challenge what worries me is will we.

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    In the pack too many forward make very few good breaks, just Thompson and LMS who plays his heart out, Wilkin broke once & he showed his age, virtually stopping, he looks to be carrying weight around the stomach, while a 33 year old Catalan forward put the likes of Douglas & Amor to shame! 'more athletic & mobile' LOL! but make very few breaks though??

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    We need changes in how some of our forwards play. Ray French commented recently on how many times our backs are taking the ball up and doing the job that should be done by others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zippy View Post
    We need changes in how some of our forwards play. Ray French commented recently on how many times our backs are taking the ball up and doing the job that should be done by others.
    But that’s been our tactic ever since Walmsley got injured - we’ve preferred to tire opposition forwards out by making them chase speedy backs. By and large you would have to say it has been successful so far but maybe coaches are finding a way of nullifying it’s impact?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint from Bury View Post
    I hope Morgan is fit for Friday as yesterday proved that TM is not a centre
    He isnt.

    I've had a full day to sulk over it and im really hoping its just a cup upset. We've had a great year so far and I think it could be the shock the team needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zippy View Post
    We need changes in how some of our forwards play. Ray French commented recently on how many times our backs are taking the ball up and doing the job that should be done by others.
    Way too many exit sets for me; Catalans set up for them yesterday and wingers were constantly crabbing east to west. The next man up was also smashed as a result. Its become predictable.

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    Angry and bitterly, bitterly disappointed.

    The pack getting beaten to a pulp has reared its ugly head again and it's like groundhog day.

    Last time we win something...guess what...we had a pack that was big, aggressive and wouldn't be bullied.

    I'm going to leave the individuals out as I've already hammered them on another thread. But I will say this..

    Having played myself and although completely different, I play football in a fairly tough, physical league. If I lose out physically in a match it's one of the worst feelings in the world.

    We were totally bullied from start to finish..

    A mate found a really good weekend package for Wembley so I said I'd go regardless but was hopeful we would do it. I honestly don't want to bother now.

    Hammer blow yesterday, they blew it. Pathetic

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    Amor is a disgrace of a forward. Makes little metres game after game, terrible in defence and always looks like he's tripping over his feet. He's first on my list to be booted out the door, ahead of Douglas. I'd even look at another winger, Swift's positioning yesterday which led to 2 balls bundling into touch was amateur. Grace is also far too small to be taking the ball in, regardless of whether it's to preserve the forwards

    At the end of the day, we lack size against a huge Catalans outfit. We didn't play to our strengths which is moving the ball about and utilising that left hand side. Our right hand side was a disaster but what do we expect when we didn't have our first choice SR, Centre and Wing on that right side.

    Well and truly beaten. Props to Catalans, literally. Hope they go all the way.

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    Good post.
    There is lot's to address but if players are carrying knocks they should really be rested especially with the GF on the horizon.We have some breathing space and a win on friday will blow the cobwebs away and give us more time in the long run. If we can get a couple of wins I would like to see the lads actually have a week off around the cup final.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    I think the same as before. The use of pointless social media such as twitter means there unfortunate wild vicissitudes of opinion that are often embarrassing or cringe worthy for those that post them.

    Already covered my thoughts on yesterday on another thread; I think the big thing that is going unnoticed is that Saints tactics look a bit stale. I understand people obsessing on how the Catalans pack bossed the match; clearly it was dispiriting and a big worry heading into the Super 8's but I also feel everyone is/has wised up to Saints style of play.

    The template has become easy to read. Wingers looking for quick play the balls/exiting on tackle one and two, Thompson or another prop on 3rd tackle before spinning it out on the 4th with Wilkin a link man for the backs. If Saints are 40 (or less) out Lomax takes the ball (always on the left) with Barba ghosting round the back. The team plays for rapid speed but its become a bit predictable to be honest.

    This is one of the reason I disagree with the OP's criticisms of Barba. Players like that need some space; yesterday he had none whatsoever and it was compounded by the fact Catalans read every Saints move. Unfortunately, the likes of social media are a platform for emotional rants about 'lack of interest,' 'passion' and other types of shite that make Britain First look the bastion of common sense and balance.

    Holbrook commented that he thought Saints overplayed yesterday and I think he is correct. Makinson needed to wise up in particular; he killed momentum at one stage by continually crabbing from east to west and it allowed Catalans forwards to set up to hit the next man up. There are times when a winger needs to go direct and take the tackle and yesterday was an example.

    Whilst the result is disappointing there are some silver linings. The match may help younger players such as Richardson who needs more experience of how to handle those type of matches ahead of the big games at the end of the season. Having been showed up on TV it's also an opportunity to address a weakness through the Super 8's with an added motivator of missing out on Wembley.

    I was very disappointed with yesterday but I think the players will be devastated. I think its the time to get behind the team; they knew yesterday was a massive let down and tubthumping about the defeat won't help. Need to look forward now and not back.
    Absolutely spot on this post.

    I am gutted right now, we just didn't turn up in that 1st half and we put in our worst performance since Holbrook arrived. Our completion rate was terrible, we made unforced errors and tried to overplay and we simply weren't direct enough when we had the ball. You only have to look at the completion rate stats and the metres made from the 1st half and the tale of what happened is obvious - we were dominated. Apart from LMS and Thompson none of our forwards stood up to Catalans huge pack. Roby has his most ineffective game of the season and our backs weren't given a chance.

    Full credit to Catalans they had a very simple game plan and that was to complete their sets, dominate the game in the forwards, kick behind our wingers and full back and when they got within our 30 metre zone they started to attack us on the edges (2nd row / centre channels). There wasn't anything flashy to it, but they executed the plan perfectly and we just couldn't handle their size and power in the 1st half.

    This is now the biggest test of the season for us. It would be very easy to let that game affect our confidence and to start doubting ourselves. Some fans are already writing the season off, but for me that is insane and a weak mentality that people want to just give up. If we have any ambitions of being Champions in October, we pick ourselves off the floor, we fight and we prove a point starting this Friday. We're still 10 points clear, guaranteed to be in the Semi Final in October and barring a complete collapse and a miracle run by Wigan, we will finish top of the league. We've got Morgan, Peyroux and Walmsley to come back from injury which could give us a timely boost when needed to lift our spirits. Our cup dreams may be over, but we still have ALOT to play.
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    Im gutted today. It was the first thing in my head when i woke up this morning. Terrible first half. We didn’t respect Catalans and try to play around them without earning it. Ive said it before but Wilkin jumping in at first reciever constantly does not work. Sometimes it does, other times it doesn’t. It cost us when Leeds beat us and again yesterday. We lose a lot of size to the opposition when both Amor and Wilkin are on the pitch at the same time. Catalans were always going to be physical.
    Catalans wanted it more. They ran harder and tackled harder. Its not rocket science. To be fair, i think they would have beat anyone yesterday playing how they did, but still thats not much consolation. We were crap.

    Another cause for concern, yet again we flop in a big game when we are expected to win. The only time we seem to win big games is whenever we are written off by everyone. When we are favourites we flop big time. Thats not good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Angry and bitterly, bitterly disappointed.

    The pack getting beaten to a pulp has reared its ugly head again and it's like groundhog day.

    Last time we win something...guess what...we had a pack that was big, aggressive and wouldn't be bullied.

    I'm going to leave the individuals out as I've already hammered them on another thread. But I will say this..

    Having played myself and although completely different, I play football in a fairly tough, physical league. If I lose out physically in a match it's one of the worst feelings in the world.

    We were totally bullied from start to finish..

    A mate found a really good weekend package for Wembley so I said I'd go regardless but was hopeful we would do it. I honestly don't want to bother now.

    Hammer blow yesterday, they blew it. Pathetic
    know exactly how you feel. i spent £80 on flights thinking we would get there and i definitely will not go now.

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    I missed the game as I was on a flight, I'm absolutley gutted- but let's be honest - a bad game's been coming for a while.

    I see our season goign two ways now (all dependant on JH).
    1 - Collapse
    2 - Use this as a wakeup call -and we reboudn and go from Strength to Strength

    I'm really hoping it's the 2nd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glasgowsaint View Post
    know exactly how you feel. i spent £80 on flights thinking we would get there and i definitely will not go now.
    Sorry but you've got yourself to blame for that one. Why would you do that?

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    I just can't get away from the fact that it is absolutely no surprise what Catalans will bring - size and physicality in the forwards. You know all day long that is possibly their biggest weapon, so as a forward, you should be psychologically imaging you dominating them in tackles and go forward, in the build up to the game. Our forwards (bar LMS & Thommo) looked as though they were just dragged off the street for a knock about with friends.

    Wilkin continues to be absolutely in-effective against any half decent opposition, and I'm absolutely fed up with his 'no look' passes which have a red cross written all over them. The crap pass he provided to J-Lo in the first half which then saw J-Lo get crunched, was appalling. Has Amor kicked on? No, if anything he has regressed, and offers us absolutely zilch. I genuinely, genuinely, cannot remember Douglas taking a carry yesterday - the only thing I remember him for was giving away that penalty for having his hands in, in the ruck.

    The only way that we would have stopped the Catalans forwards yesterday was for our own pack to actually front up, but unfortunately aside from LMS & Thommo, no one could give 2 hoots from the look of it. Our line speed should have also been a lot quicker in shutting their big guys down much more, but again this was lacking and we let them get far too much ground around the ruck and 1-out.

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