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Thread: Ben Thaler

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    Default Ben Thaler

    I see Ben Thaler is the ref for the hull game. Does anyone know when he last refereed us?

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    He’s not refereed Saints this season, but has been Video Ref 5 occasions

    Last time he was in the middle was in the play offs of 2017

    2017 (Referee)
    Rnd 28 at Wakefield (W 18-16)
    Rnd 26 at Leeds (L 16-32)

    Rnd 22 Catalans (W 46-28)
    Rnd 9 at Wigan (L 18-29)
    Rnd 2 at Leigh (L 16-24)


    2018 (Video Ref)
    Rnd 8 Wigan
    Rnd 10 Hull
    Rnd 13 Salford
    Rnd 14 Catalans
    Rnd 15 Widnes (Magic)

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaygee View Post
    He’s not refereed Saints this season, but has been Video Ref 5 occasions

    Last time he was in the middle was in the play offs of 2017

    2017 (Referee)
    Rnd 28 at Wakefield (W 18-16)
    Rnd 26 at Leeds (L 16-32)

    Rnd 22 Catalans (W 46-28)
    Rnd 9 at Wigan (L 18-29)
    Rnd 2 at Leigh (L 16-24)


    2018 (Video Ref)
    Rnd 8 Wigan
    Rnd 10 Hull
    Rnd 13 Salford
    Rnd 14 Catalans
    Rnd 15 Widnes (Magic)
    Strange that hasn't refereed us considering we are further than half way through the reg season. Wonder why that is.

    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

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    The Warrington playoff in 2016 comes to mind. He lost the game for us, poor decisions and not referring a Warrington ‘try’ to the video ref in the last few minutes. Since then he has been out of favour with the RFL. Saints have probably made their feelings known about him too.

    He doesn’t have the right temperament to ref the big games. He likes to be the centre of attention and be seen to make critical game changing decisions on his own when he should be referring them upstairs.

    All things considered it’s a strange appointment for our biggest game of the season so far.

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    In a nutshell saintjames.
    Quote Originally Posted by saintjames View Post
    The Warrington playoff in 2016 comes to mind. He lost the game for us, poor decisions and not referring a Warrington ‘try’ to the video ref in the last few minutes. Since then he has been out of favour with the RFL. Saints have probably made their feelings known about him too.

    He doesn’t have the right temperament to ref the big games. He likes to be the centre of attention and be seen to make critical game changing decisions on his own when he should be referring them upstairs.

    All things considered it’s a strange appointment for our biggest game of the season so far.
    roy litherland it's happened i told you it would

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    Thanks for the responses everyone. I think the appointment of
    Thaler to this game is indeed strange. He has history
    With us and should have been allocated one of our first sixteen
    Games before being handed this one. I guess he has refereed
    Hull already this season?

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    I'm not a fan of this ref, I don't think he is bad as such but shows his emotion to much. I think officials should stay emotionless and deal with things objectively

    That said if they employer him as a ref he should work the circuit like the others, he is either deemed a suitable official or not. So with that thinking a guess it's fine he has been selected

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradfordsaint View Post
    I guess he has refereed
    Hull already this season?
    He refereed the Hull derby at Newcastle the other week, he was fantastic, gave us absolutely everything and made sure we won.

    (After reading saintjames's post I thought it only right to reply in a similar vein. )

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    I don’t like Thaler. On a good day he’s a very capable referee. On a bad day he is shocking. His bad games hint more towards being bent than inept. He loves the sound of his own voice and if ever theirs a ref who has the face to blatantly slap one team its Ben Thaler. He will crucify one team and not even subtly, in the same way Phil Clarke no longer even attempts to be an impartial commentator.
    screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintjames View Post
    The Warrington playoff in 2016 comes to mind. He lost the game for us, poor decisions and not referring a Warrington ‘try’ to the video ref in the last few minutes. Since then he has been out of favour with the RFL. Saints have probably made their feelings known about him too.

    He doesn’t have the right temperament to ref the big games. He likes to be the centre of attention and be seen to make critical game changing decisions on his own when he should be referring them upstairs.

    All things considered it’s a strange appointment for our biggest game of the season so far.
    Thaler being appointed is my biggest fear re this fixture. Read a quote from Lee Radford about his side needing to be playing on "the cusp of legality" which sounds a bit dodgy to me. Rather like the infamous Wane quote to his team telling them to "Take their F****ing heads off" (the oppositions' heads that is).

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    Even if the ref has a stinker - the game is in our hands. Of course it would make it much harder, but if we remain composed and don't get frustrated with the ref's decisions - we can win it. Doesn't make it right when refs are poor, but our game against Cas the other week is a good example of what can happen if a team get too wound up with the refs decisions - they lost it, even when the ref didn't have that bad a game. When refs are even poorer the consequences are worse if it gets into a teams mindset. Our reaction in the Salford game when Lees was sent off is a great example of how we should approach a game when things are going against us - the players showed excellent attitude as a team in that game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by St. Christopher View Post
    Even if the ref has a stinker - the game is in our hands. Of course it would make it much harder, but if we remain composed and don't get frustrated with the ref's decisions - we can win it. Doesn't make it right when refs are poor, but our game against Cas the other week is a good example of what can happen if a team get too wound up with the refs decisions - they lost it, even when the ref didn't have that bad a game. When refs are even poorer the consequences are worse if it gets into a teams mindset. Our reaction in the Salford game when Lees was sent off is a great example of how we should approach a game when things are going against us - the players showed excellent attitude as a team in that game.
    Composure is exactly what we need, especially if Connor is in full sledging mode. Think what Toronto and Leigh might have achieved if they’s Kept their discipline and composure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prez View Post
    Thaler being appointed is my biggest fear re this fixture. Read a quote from Lee Radford about his side needing to be playing on "the cusp of legality" which sounds a bit dodgy to me. Rather like the infamous Wane quote to his team telling them to "Take their F****ing heads off" (the oppositions' heads that is).
    If Hull are going to come in with head high tackles to disrupt our game then players on the receiving end like Barba, Grace, Richardson and Lomax need to stay down for 10 seconds for an automatic penalty and warning.
    What’s creeping into our game is teams taking a risk of a head high tackle, forefeiting a penalty for the opposition player to go off the pitch for a 10 min head test. Officials must give the benefit of the doubt to the injured player and act accordingly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    If Hull are going to come in with head high tackles to disrupt our game then players on the receiving end like Barba, Grace, Richardson and Lomax need to stay down for 10 seconds for an automatic penalty and warning.
    What’s creeping into our game is teams taking a risk of a head high tackle, forefeiting a penalty for the opposition player to go off the pitch for a 10 min head test. Officials must give the benefit of the doubt to the injured player and act accordingly.
    I’d say the more worrying thing that’s creeping into the game is players faking injury to gain a cynical advantage, so I’d be against this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    I’d say the more worrying thing that’s creeping into the game is players faking injury to gain a cynical advantage, so I’d be against this.
    Its a bit chicken and egg isn,t it, if we had the right consistent decision in the first place for direct contact to the head we wouldnt have all these ambiguous actions from the officials and players.
    Nearly every tackle these days ends up wrestling around the shoulder/neck/head area, players must receive
    100+ tackles of this type each season.
    Certain offending players seem to be given more tolerence and parity of the offence is not executed, shirley from the wigoons 99% of the time tackles at the neck and is allowed to because its his “trademark”.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintjames View Post
    The Warrington playoff in 2016 comes to mind. He lost the game for us, poor decisions and not referring a Warrington ‘try’ to the video ref in the last few minutes. Since then he has been out of favour with the RFL. Saints have probably made their feelings known about him too.

    He doesn’t have the right temperament to ref the big games. He likes to be the centre of attention and be seen to make critical game changing decisions on his own when he should be referring them upstairs.

    All things considered it’s a strange appointment for our biggest game of the season so far.
    That Wire playoff was THE most one sided ref performance I've seen in 35yrs watching Saints.
    I'd be amazed if friends of Thaler didn't have a few bob on Wire that day. Before that I thought he was one of the better SL refs

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Its a bit chicken and egg isn,t it, if we had the right consistent decision in the first place for direct contact to the head we wouldnt have all these ambiguous actions from the officials and players.
    Nearly every tackle these days ends up wrestling around the shoulder/neck/head area, players must receive
    100+ tackles of this type each season.
    Certain offending players seem to be given more tolerence and parity of the offence is not executed, shirley from the wigoons 99% of the time tackles at the neck and is allowed to because its his “trademark”.

    Impossible to have 100% consistency as it's a subjective view at full speed, then there's 1,000s of other views by spectators and viewers.
    Players cannot cynically feign injury or play for penalties and then justify it by saying the ref makes mistakes. If this is accepted the players can justify any action every game

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    If Hull are going to come in with head high tackles to disrupt our game then players on the receiving end like Barba, Grace, Richardson and Lomax need to stay down for 10 seconds for an automatic penalty and warning.
    What’s creeping into our game is teams taking a risk of a head high tackle, forefeiting a penalty for the opposition player to go off the pitch for a 10 min head test. Officials must give the benefit of the doubt to the injured player and act accordingly.

    You seem to have already made your mind up that hull are going out intentionally to tackle high, I have never witnessed as a player or coach any team tactic of this sort. To imagine a coach would do this intentionally is questioning their integrity, and this is before the game has even kicked off!

    The ref must allowed to ref the game without players trying to catch others our with cynical play, that will not make it any easier for the officials, only harder and lead to more errors.

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    Thaler managing to leave both sets of fans unhappy at some decisions.

    Overall, I thought he got most things right (the pen against Morgan when Miloudi (?) ran into him (that led to their first try) and the failure to take action when Percy had his legs lifted up and dumped were two obvious ones. But he didn't bottle the sin binnings, to his credit.

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    Thaler managing to leave both sets of fans unhappy at some decisions.

    Overall, I thought he got most things right (the pen against Morgan when Miloudi (?) ran into him (that led to their first try) and the failure to take action when Percy had his legs lifted up and dumped were two obvious ones. But he didn't bottle the sin binnings, to his credit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    You seem to have already made your mind up that hull are going out intentionally to tackle high, I have never witnessed as a player or coach any team tactic of this sort. To imagine a coach would do this intentionally is questioning their integrity, and this is before the game has even kicked off!

    The ref must allowed to ref the game without players trying to catch others our with cynical play, that will not make it any easier for the officials, only harder and lead to more errors.
    Well I seem to have got this one right, head tackles galore from Hull we even got a bonus of Washbrook kneeing LMS in the head. Radford did make a statement pre match that he was going to make it borderline tough. The exact quote was we will play on the "Cusp of Legality".
    Last edited by STIDDY; 3rd June 2018 at 20:43.

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    I thought Thaler had a good game and got very little wrong. For me:

    - Kelly’s tackle on Percival was a penalty but didn’t deserve anything more as he didn’t drive him into the ground (either intentionally or accidentally as Mata’utia and Knowles respectively did) and Percival didn’t land on his head.

    - Morgan clearly ran across Miloudi and it was the touch judge that drew Thaler’s attention to the incident (but if people want to rant about simulation they should focus their attention on Miloudi’s antics).

    - I don’t think Houghton intended to put pressure on Richardson’s neck but he did grab him round the head and then lost all control because of other Hull players joining the tackle. Under current interpretations, that warrants a sin binning.

    - The first tackler on LMS was trying to bore his head into LMS’s face and then Westbrook clearly raised his knee. A woeful attempt, albeit, and never likely to do any damage but to let that go unpunished only causes players to want to seek retribution with the likelihood of escalating violence.

    - The late tackle on Lomax could have caused severe damage through whiplash and was deservedly punished. Thankfully, Thaler’s judgement was clear later on when Kelly tried to buy a penalty by taking a dive when LMS ran in as he kicked to our line. While it happened in front of the Hull fans, Thaler was strong enough to resist pressure to even things up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    I thought Thaler had a good game and got very little wrong. For me:

    - Kelly’s tackle on Percival was a penalty but didn’t deserve anything more as he didn’t drive him into the ground (either intentionally or accidentally as Mata’utia and Knowles respectively did) and Percival didn’t land on his head.

    - Morgan clearly ran across Miloudi and it was the touch judge that drew Thaler’s attention to the incident (but if people want to rant about simulation they should focus their attention on Miloudi’s antics).

    - I don’t think Houghton intended to put pressure on Richardson’s neck but he did grab him round the head and then lost all control because of other Hull players joining the tackle. Under current interpretations, that warrants a sin binning.

    - The first tackler on LMS was trying to bore his head into LMS’s face and then Westbrook clearly raised his knee. A woeful attempt, albeit, and never likely to do any damage but to let that go unpunished only causes players to want to seek retribution with the likelihood of escalating violence.

    - The late tackle on Lomax could have caused severe damage through whiplash and was deservedly punished. Thankfully, Thaler’s judgement was clear later on when Kelly tried to buy a penalty by taking a dive when LMS ran in as he kicked to our line. While it happened in front of the Hull fans, Thaler was strong enough to resist pressure to even things up.
    Agree with most of this Tabasco, but if Percy stays down the result is different, the tackle was a bad as Matautia`s, Percy to his credit did not play on it. Danny Houghton tried to avoid pressure on Danny Richardson`s neck but as you say the other tacklers took the referees decision for him. I think reversing into a tackle and then men coming over the top is very contentious and DR does stay down but then plays the full match, without leaving for HIA, I am not saying he is feigning or" milking it " but turning your back to defenders is asking for trouble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger View Post
    Agree with most of this Tabasco, but if Percy stays down the result is different, the tackle was a bad as Matautia`s, Percy to his credit did not play on it. Danny Houghton tried to avoid pressure on Danny Richardson`s neck but as you say the other tacklers took the referees decision for him. I think reversing into a tackle and then men coming over the top is very contentious and DR does stay down but then plays the full match, without leaving for HIA, I am not saying he is feigning or" milking it " but turning your back to defenders is asking for trouble.
    Percy couldn't really stay down though as he was put down on his side, it was a penalty and nothing more I thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barry View Post
    Percy couldn't really stay down though as he was put down on his side, it was a penalty and nothing more I thought.

    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
    Only because he put his arm out to stop landing head first, Parcel could not put his arm out as Matautia had them clamped but the lift on Percy was over the horizontal toward the floor more so, as I thought, Percy did not stay down to draw attention to it.
    I cannot help feeling player reaction is influencing the refs decision. I do not want the bad old days of thugby but Brian Carney alluded to it the other week, players need to get up if not injured, this should not affect the Refs decision though.
    All teams have players guilty of this form of "professionalism", player safety is paramount but some are "milking it". Times have changed our own Keiron a true great of a player, used the cannonball tackle to devastating effect early in his career, it is now banned and rightly in the Wigan/Wire match a sin binning for its use yesterday.

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