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Thread: Importance of Holbrook

  1. #26
    In The South Stand Sean Day's Avatar
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    Brilliantly coached, brilliantly organised and every player improved. Can’t ask for any more from a coach

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Wee Waa Womble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by southernsaint7 View Post
    Dom Peyroux top of that list. He's gone from top tit to top trump in a very short space of time
    Exactly. This time last year not a single one of us would have been sorry to see him go.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Learning All The Songs Kakariki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    I second that. Under KC i had my doubts that Peyroux was even a rugby player!
    Keiron always said he'd be a fans' favourite!

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    Hard to believe some of these players are the same as those we saw under Cunningham.
    This plus the way he coaches and possibly treats the players are why he looks to be so good.

    Cunningham maybe a legend, but his coaching style post the Bunnies drubbing left nearly everyone scratching their heads. Holbrook has come in and given players afreedom to play what they see in front of them, and he also has the belief that it can pay off, which has rubbed off on the players. They are playing with more freedom than they ever did under KC, and that belief eventually started to show through on the pitch.

    The knowledge as a player that you're not going to be ragged out in the media by your coach does wonders for confidence, and right now that is brimming over throughout the side.

    The only worrying aspect for me was how we seemed to look like a one man team for 10-15 minutes after Barba went off last night. We haven't depended on one person solely all season as much as before, but when BB went off we seemed a bit all over the place defensively.
    RHINO balls are like Bon Jovi albums - Slippery When Wet

    ST HELENS RFC - Back in business, Thank you Justin Holbrook.

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    Learning All The Songs Kakariki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldham_Saint View Post
    This plus the way he coaches and possibly treats the players are why he looks to be so good.

    Cunningham maybe a legend, but his coaching style post the Bunnies drubbing left nearly everyone scratching their heads. Holbrook has come in and given players afreedom to play what they see in front of them, and he also has the belief that it can pay off, which has rubbed off on the players. They are playing with more freedom than they ever did under KC, and that belief eventually started to show through on the pitch.

    The knowledge as a player that you're not going to be ragged out in the media by your coach does wonders for confidence, and right now that is brimming over throughout the side.

    The only worrying aspect for me was how we seemed to look like a one man team for 10-15 minutes after Barba went off last night. We haven't depended on one person solely all season as much as before, but when BB went off we seemed a bit all over the place defensively.
    That's the key for me. We have so much confidence in our defence that we can afford to take calculated risks and try something a bit different. Last night Richardson ran the ball on the last tackle but ended up tackled just in our half. The attitude from the players was, "never mind, it might have come off and we can defend from here." Imagine that happening under KC? Richardson wouldn't have been picked again!

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    Starting A Programme Collection MachineGunFunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldham_Saint View Post
    The only worrying aspect for me was how we seemed to look like a one man team for 10-15 minutes after Barba went off last night. We haven't depended on one person solely all season as much as before, but when BB went off we seemed a bit all over the place defensively.
    The game was well won by then though so you can give the players some latitude for dropping off their intensity a bit. Cas chanced their arm although they did get some calls - Hitchcox's try looked like a 50/50 ball steal/loose carry when Amor lost it and the pass to Holmes looked a bit dubious for his.

    And we're all delighted with Holbrook so wonder what people's opinions are now of 'wonder coach' Powell after two convincing defeats at home to us and his spit the dummy out interview on Sky where he blamed the ref for everything. Not sure he was watching the same game as everyone else as they seemed to get the rub I thought. Looks like they've lost one player and are completely screwed.
    "Never write off the Saints!!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by MachineGunFunk View Post
    The game was well won by then though so you can give the players some latitude for dropping off their intensity a bit. Cas chanced their arm although they did get some calls - Hitchcox's try looked like a 50/50 ball steal/loose carry when Amor lost it and the pass to Holmes looked a bit dubious for his.
    And we're all delighted with Holbrook so wonder what people's opinions are now of 'wonder coach' Powell after two convincing defeats at home to us and his spit the dummy out interview on Sky where he blamed the ref for everything. Not sure he was watching the same game as everyone else as they seemed to get the rub I thought. Looks like they've lost one player and are completely screwed.
    Re intensity dropping. I agree we don’t need to be worried. The game was won, we had a short turnaround and it was a hot night. They needed to chase the game. In fact I think the score flattered them.
    JH is a breath of fresh air even if we did not win anything he has rekindled this club. Re Powell I am prepared to give him some slack. He is working with less money with a team he built and made average players a lot better. The clubs implosion in house has to have an effect of him and the club. He was just p###ed of last night and threw the old teddy out.
    Humans are more concerned with having than being.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldham_Saint View Post
    The only worrying aspect for me was how we seemed to look like a one man team for 10-15 minutes after Barba went off last night. We haven't depended on one person solely all season as much as before, but when BB went off we seemed a bit all over the place defensively.
    I did wonder if that was more to do with a positions shuffle and a tired player (in this case Roby) having to come straight back on again.

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    In The South Stand OoOGazOoO's Avatar
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    I genuinely love the guy.

    Apart from the night and day change in the team and performance, I love his attitude and his personality. It is totally refreshing and he comes across as a brilliant bloke.

    Thanks Justin!

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    Anyone know when Walmsley is Back?

    ONCE A SAINT, ALWAYS A SAINT

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    Nobody knows not even Walmesley but the original estimate was that he won't be back before mid July. That was based on 'typical' recovery but who knows whether this injury is typical.

  12. #37
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    I think Walmsley was due to have a scan this month to see how the healing was progressing. No comments so far so I don’t even know whether he’s had the scan as yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    Re intensity dropping. I agree we don’t need to be worried. The game was won, we had a short turnaround and it was a hot night. They needed to chase the game. In fact I think the score flattered them.
    JH is a breath of fresh air even if we did not win anything he has rekindled this club. Re Powell I am prepared to give him some slack. He is working with less money with a team he built and made average players a lot better. The clubs implosion in house has to have an effect of him and the club. He was just p###ed of last night and threw the old teddy out.
    I agree with this. He was obviously frustrated. They are still a good team but we were too good for them. Last year a lot of Saints fans wanted him as our next coach! He is a good coach but Holbrook has been fantastic for Saints. We do know how Holbrook would deal with a long run of poor performances. My guess is that he would be calm and professional

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasty View Post
    I agree with this. He was obviously frustrated. They are still a good team but we were too good for them. Last year a lot of Saints fans wanted him as our next coach! He is a good coach but Holbrook has been fantastic for Saints. We do know how Holbrook would deal with a long run of poor performances. My guess is that he would be calm and professional
    I reckon Holbrook's persona would see Victory and Defeat as one of the same, he just doesn't across as be a moody character more of a disappointed individual instead. No doubt opposition fans will glorify when the smile is wiped off Holbrooks face but he will just try and fix things that are in his control and move onto the next game

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintJ View Post
    Anyone know when Walmsley is Back?
    There was something about him having two check ups soon in Holbrooks weekly Q&A (which are also much nicer to read now than just over a year ago when someone else did them)

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    Quote Originally Posted by southernsaint7 View Post
    There was something about him having two check ups soon in Holbrooks weekly Q&A (which are also much nicer to read now than just over a year ago when someone else did them)
    Think it was a X-ray end of this month, then a CT or MRI scan end of June.
    Still in Newport....still no nearer home.........

  17. #42
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk DD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    Im not taking anything away from Holbrook. I donÂ’t think heÂ’s a particularly special coach. HeÂ’s just a vast improvement on Cunningham. Im not having a dig at Holbrook. I just donÂ’t think their are actually many good coaches. A coach can only do so much. You are either a bad coach, a competent coach, or a good coach. Holbrook is certainly competent. Im not sure yet if heÂ’s a good coach.
    Cunninghams tactics were boring and defeatist. Like those 2 close play off and cup exits to Leeds in 2015. I think his mantra was basically ‘defend well, play the percentages, fingers crossed we win’. We left too much to chance playing Cunninghams way. Round 1 2017 we beat Leeds 6-4 and i said at the time that the players were going to lose faith in him if he didn’t improve our attack. The players worked hard but struggled to win games playing grind rugby. Couple that with his favouritism of certain players and eventually he lost the dressing room.

    Holbrook came in and acted exactly how a coach should. He picked form players and created competition for shirts. Its not rocket science. HeÂ’s honest, decent and doesnÂ’t have any favourites.

    Is he the messiah? Im not sure. We are still scrappy with the ball at times. But he has a good team to work with. We have some good players, some very good players, some internationals, and a world class player at full back. All these things make his job a bit easier.

    Its a tough one. Maybe im not giving him enough credit. HeÂ’s given Richardson and Grace regular game time, our defence is pretty solid for the best part, weÂ’ve had our best Easter for a decade. Its hard to imagine these things would have happened under Cunningham.
    If we win a trophy this year it wonÂ’t make Holbrook a great coach, if we win nothing it wonÂ’t necessarily make him a bad coach. I think this squad is good enough to win trophies with a competent coach.
    Maybe you are not giving him enough credit. Certainly you are not giving him enough credit!

    Win a trophy or not, the transformation in this team has been incredible.

    I think we all know that Ben Barba has been a large part of that, but one player does not answer what has happened with the rest of the team. A year ago, I think many of us didn't just lay the blame on Cunningham's doorstep, a very large percentage of us truly believed that we had the worst set of players at our disposal in the last thirty years. Players such as Peyroux, Amor, Morgan, Taia and LMS were held up as examples of where it was all going wrong in terms of recruitment. The whole squad, indeed, seemed incapable of moving the ball around at anything more than the pace of a slug. We were bored, we were fed up and we were going nowhere, and whilst we can lay the blame on Cunningham for that, the reality is that we'd won one trophy in a decade, having bored the pants off us all for that entire period, including our one title winning season, when we were simply the best of a rotten bunch.

    The team was broke, dispirited and bereft of confidence and belief. Yet, within the space of a few months we should have been at the Grand Final. Within the space of the year, we are not only top of the pile, we are defending with a vigour that I haven't seen for years, but more importantly, the coach has us playing the best brand of rugby we've played for years. Those players who looked nigh on uncoachable are suddenly looking like truly quality players. Not only is the team playing the best brand of rugby, Super League has seen for some time (including Cas last year), we're winning games and looking like a real team.

    Individually, he seems to have improved almost everybody by 100%. Players who couldn't previously pass a ball are offloading, taking risks and moving it significantly faster than they once were. When you look at the sleight of hands and passing movements in all of them; well none of them could do that before, or if they could, we never saw it. It used to take us an eternity to shift the ball from the middle to out wide. Now, we are shifting it out, forcing overlaps and scoring the kind of tries that we thought had long since gone. Their speed of thought has all increased in tune with their speed of movement.

    Quite honestly, he's the best coach I've seen at Saints, because the likes of Millward and Anderson were gifted a squad of true superstars. Holbrook was given everything but, but he's turned an average set of plodders into title favourites within a very short space of time.

    Justin Holbrook has rescued a club that was going downhill fast and put us right back up there again. I hope he stays for a long time, but i suspect an NRL club will be coming in for him soon. However, the players won't unlearn what he's coached them. He's set us up for years, whether we win trophies this year or not.
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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    Maybe you are not giving him enough credit. Certainly you are not giving him enough credit!

    Win a trophy or not, the transformation in this team has been incredible.

    I think we all know that Ben Barba has been a large part of that, but one player does not answer what has happened with the rest of the team. A year ago, I think many of us didn't just lay the blame on Cunningham's doorstep, a very large percentage of us truly believed that we had the worst set of players at our disposal in the last thirty years. Players such as Peyroux, Amor, Morgan, Taia and LMS were held up as examples of where it was all going wrong in terms of recruitment. The whole squad, indeed, seemed incapable of moving the ball around at anything more than the pace of a slug. We were bored, we were fed up and we were going nowhere, and whilst we can lay the blame on Cunningham for that, the reality is that we'd won one trophy in a decade, having bored the pants off us all for that entire period, including our one title winning season, when we were simply the best of a rotten bunch.

    The team was broke, dispirited and bereft of confidence and belief. Yet, within the space of a few months we should have been at the Grand Final. Within the space of the year, we are not only top of the pile, we are defending with a vigour that I haven't seen for years, but more importantly, the coach has us playing the best brand of rugby we've played for years. Those players who looked nigh on uncoachable are suddenly looking like truly quality players. Not only is the team playing the best brand of rugby, Super League has seen for some time (including Cas last year), we're winning games and looking like a real team.

    Individually, he seems to have improved almost everybody by 100%. Players who couldn't previously pass a ball are offloading, taking risks and moving it significantly faster than they once were. When you look at the sleight of hands and passing movements in all of them; well none of them could do that before, or if they could, we never saw it. It used to take us an eternity to shift the ball from the middle to out wide. Now, we are shifting it out, forcing overlaps and scoring the kind of tries that we thought had long since gone. Their speed of thought has all increased in tune with their speed of movement.

    Quite honestly, he's the best coach I've seen at Saints, because the likes of Millward and Anderson were gifted a squad of true superstars. Holbrook was given everything but, but he's turned an average set of plodders into title favourites within a very short space of time.

    Justin Holbrook has rescued a club that was going downhill fast and put us right back up there again. I hope he stays for a long time, but i suspect an NRL club will be coming in for him soon. However, the players won't unlearn what he's coached them. He's set us up for years, whether we win trophies this year or not.
    But that's only on the field. What about the increased visibility in the community, the feel good factor in the fans. I'm sure the improvements on the field are a major contributor but I think the improvements on and off the field are feeding off each other.

  19. #44
    Got A Season Ticket el ste's Avatar
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    well said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OoOGazOoO View Post
    I genuinely love the guy.

    Apart from the night and day change in the team and performance, I love his attitude and his personality. It is totally refreshing and he comes across as a brilliant bloke.

    Thanks Justin!
    Saw JH with his lads at Lime St station last Sunday. I just passed a comment as I was passing congratulating him about how well the team was playing and he stopped for a short chat at his own behest. He must have thought he wouldn't be recognised in Liverpool but he was genuinely keen to engage in conversation. He is a really nice chap and he's loving it here!

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    Definitely need to wrap him up with another 2 or 3 year deal, then let him head back to the NRL with a new St Helens dynasty in place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon Sexton View Post
    Definitely need to wrap him up with another 2 or 3 year deal, then let him head back to the NRL with a new St Helens dynasty in place.
    This would get my vote

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    Justin Holbrook interview on radio five live tonight from 9pm for a hour.

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