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Thread: More Clarke Bias

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    How long do you think any of the commentators would last by saying "welcome to Thursday night Super League in May there is only four clubs who can realistically win this competition so tune in to the darts and come back to Sky Super League for the semi finals and final in September/October?
    They do a good job and Phil Clarke made no effort in the past to hide his enjoyment when watching the great Saints of old, he is a Rugby League fan from Wigan, of course he wants his old team to do well. Earlier in the season there was a thread on Jon Wells fawning over Benny Barba when he was at the touch screen, his comment was tongue in cheek.
    I wonder if the commentators have a large screen format to look at on the gantry or have they only access to small monitors, surely the video ref decisions, that seem obvious to us, that Stuart Cummins gets wrong so often is down to this? We moan about the on field refs yet the video ref/disciplinary committee pick up less obvious offences and let more blatant offences go, all with the benefit of hindsight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger View Post
    How long do you think any of the commentators would last by saying "welcome to Thursday night Super League in May there is only four clubs who can realistically win this competition so tune in to the darts and come back to Sky Super League for the semi finals and final in September/October?
    They do a good job and Phil Clarke made no effort in the past to hide his enjoyment when watching the great Saints of old, he is a Rugby League fan from Wigan, of course he wants his old team to do well. Earlier in the season there was a thread on Jon Wells fawning over Benny Barba when he was at the touch screen, his comment was tongue in cheek.
    I wonder if the commentators have a large screen format to look at on the gantry or have they only access to small monitors, surely the video ref decisions, that seem obvious to us, that Stuart Cummins gets wrong so often is down to this? We moan about the on field refs yet the video ref/disciplinary committee pick up less obvious offences and let more blatant offences go, all with the benefit of hindsight.
    You've nearly nailed it. Sky do a terrible job mate. They are hopeless. Rest of your post I'm in full agreement

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    Opinions and all that Ralph. I think Sky do a good job, they have always been open to trying new innovations Video ref a success, try tracker a failure, does it need a change for changing sake or are the current lot that bad? I thought when Stevo left someone new could have been blooded, personally Eddie, Barry and Tez should be given the shove, maybe try a female anchor (not Angela Power) maybe Denise Van Outen or Gisele Bunden..... someone for their knowledge of Rugby

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    I think Baz n Tez can be good at times...but overall the commentary is not as good as the NRL stuff...best comment I heard this weekend was that the player had hands like dolphin flippers...as for lady presenters I think if sky could get the right presenter it would be a breath of fresh air

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChemicalBrother View Post
    I think Baz n Tez can be good at times...but overall the commentary is not as good as the NRL stuff...best comment I heard this weekend was that the player had hands like dolphin flippers...as for lady presenters I think if sky could get the right presenter it would be a breath of fresh air
    Don't mind Baz at all, you get a pretty honest commentary from him. Its Cummings who is well past his sell by date, he gets so much wrong especially the competing for the high kick incidents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Don't mind Baz at all, you get a pretty honest commentary from him. Its Cummings who is well past his sell by date, he gets so much wrong especially the competing for the high kick incidents.
    He got one of our VR decisions completely wrong yesterday and then tried to tell us the little bit he got right. Really petty, like a schoolkid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    He got one of our VR decisions completely wrong yesterday and then tried to tell us the little bit he got right. Really petty, like a schoolkid.
    I think over the weekend Cummings was at odds with a lot of the video ref calls.
    It highlights how many of our rules are open to different interpretation by referees.

    Since the on field refs are wired up so the TV viewers can get some idea why they have made a decision why don't we do the same with the Video ref, I'm sure we used to a few seasons ago

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    I think over the weekend Cummings was at odds with a lot of the video ref calls.
    It highlights how many of our rules are open to different interpretation by referees.

    Since the on field refs are wired up so the TV viewers can get some idea why they have made a decision why don't we do the same with the Video ref, I'm sure we used to a few seasons ago
    I'm sure I have heard the VR's speaking more recent than that but not sure when, was it the RWC?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    I'm sure I have heard the VR's speaking more recent than that but not sure when, was it the RWC?
    They did in the World Cup, I distinctly remember Thaler getting pulled up by an Aussie ref.
    The ref had asked Thaler to check for grounding and Thaler started waffling about obstruction or offside.

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    They also do it for the Challenge Cup matches broadcast on the BBC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger View Post
    Opinions and all that Ralph. I think Sky do a good job, they have always been open to trying new innovations Video ref a success, try tracker a failure, does it need a change for changing sake or are the current lot that bad? I thought when Stevo left someone new could have been blooded, personally Eddie, Barry and Tez should be given the shove, maybe try a female anchor (not Angela Power) maybe Denise Van Outen or Gisele Bunden..... someone for their knowledge of Rugby
    I think SKY's approach is awful to be honest. Once upon a time SKY was justifiably looked upon as a trailblazer for rugby league but no longer. Its presentation is passé and has been in need of a refresh for some time.

    Why on earth does any sane individual feel there is a requirement for the daft try music which belongs in an era of 2Unlimited, glowsticks and Joe Bloggs jeans. Total nonsense that no self respecting sport would ever go near. You metion gimmicks but RL is always the bleeding edge of these - we look like the sport so craven of any gravitas or credibility that we will do anything to appease the broadcaster no matter how ridiculous 'and the decision is...' anybody?

    The presentation has also regressed to a slapstick approach which is totally inappropriate to appeal to new audiences the game needs to reach: silly WWF hyperbole, the daft Baz and Tez jokes, messing about with League Leaders shield, showing coaches everytime there is the slightest whiff of contention etc. Just off the bat examples of a Its a Knockout style approach that makes the game look small time. In the past I've covered countless other examples of the fact that the game is presented as it its British ice hockey or Netball as opposed to what it should be.

    The fact is the BBC have far eclipsed SKYs presentation and it would be interesting to identify whether this is down to a self satisfied production team or deliberate ignorance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    I think SKY's approach is awful to be honest. Once upon a time SKY was justifiably looked upon as a trailblazer for rugby league but no longer. Its presentation is passé and has been in need of a refresh for some time.

    Why on earth does any sane individual feel there is a requirement for the daft try music which belongs in an era of 2Unlimited, glowsticks and Joe Bloggs jeans. Total nonsense that no self respecting sport would ever go near. You metion gimmicks but RL is always the bleeding edge of these - we look like the sport so craven of any gravitas or credibility that we will do anything to appease the broadcaster no matter how ridiculous 'and the decision is...' anybody?

    The presentation has also regressed to a slapstick approach which is totally inappropriate to appeal to new audiences the game needs to reach: silly WWF hyperbole, the daft Baz and Tez jokes, messing about with League Leaders shield, showing coaches everytime there is the slightest whiff of contention etc. Just off the bat examples of a Its a Knockout style approach that makes the game look small time. In the past I've covered countless other examples of the fact that the game is presented as it its British ice hockey or Netball as opposed to what it should be.

    The fact is the BBC have far eclipsed SKYs presentation and it would be interesting to identify whether this is down to a self satisfied production team or deliberate ignorance.
    Netball isn't small time, it is presented very well, by SKY, wish they would put the same effort into RL

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    I think SKY's approach is awful to be honest. Once upon a time SKY was justifiably looked upon as a trailblazer for rugby league but no longer. Its presentation is passé and has been in need of a refresh for some time.

    Why on earth does any sane individual feel there is a requirement for the daft try music which belongs in an era of 2Unlimited, glowsticks and Joe Bloggs jeans. Total nonsense that no self respecting sport would ever go near. You metion gimmicks but RL is always the bleeding edge of these - we look like the sport so craven of any gravitas or credibility that we will do anything to appease the broadcaster no matter how ridiculous 'and the decision is...' anybody?

    The presentation has also regressed to a slapstick approach which is totally inappropriate to appeal to new audiences the game needs to reach: silly WWF hyperbole, the daft Baz and Tez jokes, messing about with League Leaders shield, showing coaches everytime there is the slightest whiff of contention etc. Just off the bat examples of a Its a Knockout style approach that makes the game look small time. In the past I've covered countless other examples of the fact that the game is presented as it its British ice hockey or Netball as opposed to what it should be.

    The fact is the BBC have far eclipsed SKYs presentation and it would be interesting to identify whether this is down to a self satisfied production team or deliberate ignorance.
    I certainly agree about the need for a revamping of Sky’s coverage but would not hold up the BBC’s version as a complete exemplar. I find Hunter-Paul’s contributions excruciating, particularly his incursions onto the pitch after a try has been scored, Noble’s thoughts to be outdated and shallow, Davies adds little to the commentary and Woods has his worthless moments. Similar to Sky, the cameras often focus on the coaching staff and can miss at least one play-the-ball, as is sometimes also the case when they replay tries or contentious incidents.

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    I like bbcs coverage, maybe because I'm bored with sky's?

    Not that many of the ideas on sky are not good, I'm just tired of the same old. I like the commentators but I'm bored of them and bird of the same graphics and music

    It needs a revamp and a change. Nothing personal but move on some people and bring in fresh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger View Post
    Opinions and all that Ralph. I think Sky do a good job, they have always been open to trying new innovations Video ref a success, try tracker a failure, does it need a change for changing sake or are the current lot that bad? I thought when Stevo left someone new could have been blooded, personally Eddie, Barry and Tez should be given the shove, maybe try a female anchor (not Angela Power) maybe Denise Van Outen or Gisele Bunden..... someone for their knowledge of Rugby
    What about the girl who reads the news about RL, Jenna Brookes, I think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    I certainly agree about the need for a revamping of Sky’s coverage but would not hold up the BBC’s version as a complete exemplar. I find Hunter-Paul’s contributions excruciating, particularly his incursions onto the pitch after a try has been scored, Noble’s thoughts to be outdated and shallow, Davies adds little to the commentary and Woods has his worthless moments. Similar to Sky, the cameras often focus on the coaching staff and can miss at least one play-the-ball, as is sometimes also the case when they replay tries or contentious incidents.
    I agree that the BBC coverage is not without fault and not quite the exemplar. I also find Noble's passé Australianism's (e.g smart, dumb, and the overuse of 'real') cringeworthy but that is to betray the point.

    The point is that the BBC used to be oft criticised for poor coverage of Rugby league but it has dramatically upped its game over the last decade. SKY have traversed in the opposite direction and they have become complacent and self satisified in their presentation of the sport.

    The appropriate media presentation is of paramount importance for Rugby League given its need to broaden its commercial and geographic appeal. If the BBC got it as wrong as SKY have/are then the problem would be compounded.
    Last edited by eddiewaringsflatcap; 23rd May 2018 at 14:39.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    I agree that the BBC coverage is not without fault and not quite the exemplar. I also find Noble's passé Australianism's (e.g smart, dumb, and the overuse of 'real') cringeworthy but that is to betray the point.

    The point is that the BBC used to be oft criticised for poor coverage of Rugby league bu it as dramatically upped its game. SKY have traversed in the opposite direction and they have become complacent and self satisified in their presentation of the sport.

    The appropriate media presentation is of paramount importance for Rugby League given its need to broaden its commercial and geographic appeal. If the BBC got it as wrong as SKY have/are then the problem would be compounded.
    Agree on all of the above. I can't help but like Noble, but I really wish he'd stop saying 'in relation to' every five seconds. I also think the editing could be better on the BBC; it's quite common to miss an important play because the editor has cut to a pointless shot of a coach or player on the sideline. That's an area where I think Sky have the edge - their behind the scenes people seem to have a better understanding of the game.

    However, the BBC's presentation of the game is now miles better than Sky's, to my mind. Mark Chapman (like Claire Balding before him) is good at asking the kind of questions a layman might want to know the answer to. The discussion is staged in such a way that it would mean something to the newcomer but is nonetheless usually quite astute. And what I really like is that there isn't a tangible desperation to make the game sound phenomenal at all times regardless of what is actually happening on the pitch, as tends to be the case with Sky (Phil Clarke's pretend excited voice really makes me wince).

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    Sky don't even have a corner of a studio dedicated to it's RL coverage. It was only a short time ago they had to use the works canteen.

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    Comparing BBC to Sky is unfair as the beebs coverage is of a pick of the tie Challenge Cup match in half decent weather and a decent crowd with good atmosphere, where the result is not necessarily a forgone conclusion. How good would they be at a Thursday night Salford vs Wakefield with no expectation and a crowd of less than 1000? Even with the Toronto match they were all derisive of the Wolfpack`s tactics (quite rightly) and struggled to be objective in commentary, one or two of those kind of performances and people would be critical of our game because of that negative attitude to a one-sided match. Although Sky may seem stale it is in my opinion, a better produced and presented show, do we want change for changing sake? As I wrote earlier when Stevo retired I expected a new anchor, female, intelligent, good at their job, from Northern England,,,,,Melanie Sykes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger View Post
    Comparing BBC to Sky is unfair as the beebs coverage is of a pick of the tie Challenge Cup match in half decent weather and a decent crowd with good atmosphere, where the result is not necessarily a forgone conclusion. How good would they be at a Thursday night Salford vs Wakefield with no expectation and a crowd of less than 1000? Even with the Toronto match they were all derisive of the Wolfpack`s tactics (quite rightly) and struggled to be objective in commentary, one or two of those kind of performances and people would be critical of our game because of that negative attitude to a one-sided match. Although Sky may seem stale it is in my opinion, a better produced and presented show, do we want change for changing sake? As I wrote earlier when Stevo retired I expected a new anchor, female, intelligent, good at their job, from Northern England,,,,,Melanie Sykes.
    That's an erroneous line of logic IMO. If anything, having a better offering creates more pressure on the broadcaster to get it right because peoples expectations and focus on the game are higher than a 'lesser' fixture. For example I (and many others) have frequently criticised ITV Racings coverage of key events such as Royal Ascot when compared against the previous stronger Channel 4 coverage. This is because these events are key ones in the racing calendar and the broadcaster needs to get them right to do a service to the sport. The presentation from the BBC is far better - not having failed football commentator Hemmings is a major plus, as is the lack of the one dimensional Clark and excitables such as Clarke, Wells (who seemingly can't pronounce the letter 'T') and daft lads Laurel and Hardy.

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    The BBC is much better IMO. They just comment on the game, simple as that. Less is more.
    The SKY commentary is one step from being over the top WWE. Too many voices (talking shite half the time), too many opinions and over analysis. Clarke is a complete muppet, as are O’Connor and McDermott. Hemmings these days seems to spend more time looking for controversy in every referee decision than commentating on the actual game. Not to mention the bias!
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    I agree, there are far too many sidekicks talking absolute garbage on SKY. You don't feel that they are "real" half the time. It's almost like the producers have given them all a wacky alter-ego - you're "Mr Controversial", you're "Mr The Ref is always right" etc

    I think the Americans call it a "color commentator" but at least they only have one, we have about 5 every game

    There's no quality control at all and it just comes across as a bit of a joke compared to other sports

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    The BBC is much better IMO. They just comment on the game, simple as that. Less is more.
    The SKY commentary is one step from being over the top WWE. Too many voices (talking shite half the time), too many opinions and over analysis. Clarke is a complete muppet, as are O’Connor and McDermott. Hemmings these days seems to spend more time looking for controversy in every referee decision than commentating on the actual game. Not to mention the bias!
    I can't disagree with the poor quality on SKY, but the nonsense with Robbie Hunter-Paul weaving through the players talking Sh**e whilst they warm up is absolutely cringeworthy. Add to that the absolute verbal diarrhoea that spills out of Jonathan Davies gives SKY a run for their money. In short, new blood is needed for both broadcasters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger View Post
    Opinions and all that Ralph. I think Sky do a good job, they have always been open to trying new innovations Video ref a success, try tracker a failure, does it need a change for changing sake or are the current lot that bad? I thought when Stevo left someone new could have been blooded, personally Eddie, Barry and Tez should be given the shove, maybe try a female anchor (not Angela Power) maybe Denise Van Outen or Gisele Bunden..... someone for their knowledge of Rugby

    I think Rachel Riley. Nothing about RL she doesn't know...

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    I think SKY's approach is awful to be honest. Once upon a time SKY was justifiably looked upon as a trailblazer for rugby league but no longer. Its presentation is passé and has been in need of a refresh for some time.

    Why on earth does any sane individual feel there is a requirement for the daft try music which belongs in an era of 2Unlimited, glowsticks and Joe Bloggs jeans. Total nonsense that no self respecting sport would ever go near. You metion gimmicks but RL is always the bleeding edge of these - we look like the sport so craven of any gravitas or credibility that we will do anything to appease the broadcaster no matter how ridiculous 'and the decision is...' anybody?

    The presentation has also regressed to a slapstick approach which is totally inappropriate to appeal to new audiences the game needs to reach: silly WWF hyperbole, the daft Baz and Tez jokes, messing about with League Leaders shield, showing coaches everytime there is the slightest whiff of contention etc. Just off the bat examples of a Its a Knockout style approach that makes the game look small time. In the past I've covered countless other examples of the fact that the game is presented as it its British ice hockey or Netball as opposed to what it should be.

    The fact is the BBC have far eclipsed SKYs presentation and it would be interesting to identify whether this is down to a self satisfied production team or deliberate ignorance.

    With you mostly. But Dave Woods is even worse. That bloke really hasn't a clue. Safely the worst commentator for RL of all time. He needs to be removed from the gantry asap, talks absolute guff, & gets wildly excited about a play the ball

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