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Thread: Anyone else worried?

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    Default Anyone else worried?

    Starting to get a bit worried about the lack of new blood in the team? I would have expected at least 2 more signings as we are still short of a powerhouse prop to ease the pressure on Walmsley, and a decent stand off instead of square pegs in round holes.

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    No and it's been done to death now in numerous threads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Craigo View Post
    Starting to get a bit worried about the lack of new blood in the team? I would have expected at least 2 more signings as we are still short of a powerhouse prop to ease the pressure on Walmsley, and a decent stand off instead of square pegs in round holes.
    Most likely the "new blood' will be in the 2019 season. Richardson and young Welsby could be our future half backs by then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Most likely the "new blood' will be in the 2019 season. Richardson and young Welsby could be our future half backs by then.
    Isn't Welsby just 16 now? Can't see him being a starter by then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Most likely the "new blood' will be in the 2019 season. Richardson and young Welsby could be our future half backs by then.
    Welsby will be nowhere near ready by then, think back to Dave Hewitt and all the hype that surrounded him.
    Oh and so you don't think it's an anti Saints thing I think Lewis Dodd is a better prospect than either of the two you have mentioned, and hell be at least three to five years from being a first team regular.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Craigo View Post
    Starting to get a bit worried about the lack of new blood in the team? I would have expected at least 2 more signings as we are still short of a powerhouse prop to ease the pressure on Walmsley, and a decent stand off instead of square pegs in round holes.
    Yes done to death. The club hasn't helped itself by extending contracts to first team players that surely will be on the fringe next year. Opportunity missed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loose Forward Bloke View Post
    Isn't Welsby just 16 now? Can't see him being a starter by then.
    He will be an 18 year old in 2019, his profile pic he looks very young, but when I saw him stood alongside Makinson and Knowles he looked physically similar between the two.
    I,m thinking similar to the introduction of when Scott Moore made his appearance, it all depends if he develops in the academy and the England Youth set up next season we will just have to wait and see, he,s one to keep an eye on for progress. Watching some of his games, he,s a very smart player.
    I was told Lee Briers is working on his skills set, can anyone confirm this.
    Last edited by STIDDY; 23rd November 2017 at 09:24.

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    Instead of signing a world class player like Barba and the most outstanding championship player, can we go back to signing 5 or 6 journeymen over the winter just to excite the speccies? I would happily settle for a handful of Peyroux and Laffranchis any day of the week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KelCloset View Post
    Instead of signing a world class player like Barba and the most outstanding championship player, can we go back to signing 5 or 6 journeymen over the winter just to excite the speccies? I would happily settle for a handful of Peyroux and Laffranchis any day of the week.
    But thats what Warringtons done and we all know they know how to win trophies

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    But thats what Warringtons done and we all know they know how to win trophies
    They've won as much as us the last rent years

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    My worry is the number of overseas players coming into the game, it appears to be increasing. Leeds have seven, Hull I think are the same and now Wire appear to be following that trend. As has been mentioned on other topics a lot of them are playing in the pivotal positions. I would love the RFL to make it three per team maximum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    My worry is the number of overseas players coming into the game, it appears to be increasing. Leeds have seven, Hull I think are the same and now Wire appear to be following that trend. As has been mentioned on other topics a lot of them are playing in the pivotal positions. I would love the RFL to make it three per team maximum.
    If that was to happen, there's no chance it could happen straight away, the number would have to be reduced over a few seasons. But even then, the players that take up these squad gaps would be homegrown players that would likely be released if there was more homegrown players. That to me would just lower the standard of the league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    My worry is the number of overseas players coming into the game, it appears to be increasing. Leeds have seven, Hull I think are the same and now Wire appear to be following that trend. As has been mentioned on other topics a lot of them are playing in the pivotal positions. I would love the RFL to make it three per team maximum.
    I mean the issue is how, without contravening employment law (as it is ultimately asking businesses to not employ people based on their nationality ...)

    Whilst the current system is based on "qualifications", I am not too sure how well it would hold up if it were actually challenged by anyone - this is one of the reasons why when clubs go bust, the non-fed players are granted exemptions. Ultimately, any movement in the number allowed currently will affect the wage of a player (unfairly) as clubs have more or less recruiting power. Ergo, if you wanted to reduce the allowed limit, you would first have to "qualify" everyone in the league (as happened when we moved from quota to nonfed to a lesser or greater degree) and then wait for everyone here to retire out - in the short term though we will see the number of non-fed players jump as a consequence - the opposite affect you would hope for. Of course, were 10-15 years on from the quota to non fed change, and were still seeing teams take advantage of it (it was only 2 years ago when Catalans had 8 overseas players due to Richards being exempt due to his time at Wigan).

    Which brings it onto the bigger point - the clubs need as a whole need to look at good recruitment practice across the board (which includes players not currently based in the UK, transfers between clubs, and young players). Until theres a buy in to not necessarily look at how they can get around the rules, theres really no point the RFL trying to come up with a convoluted semi legitimate way to phrase the laws of the game to enforce this. It would also be a great way for the clubs to revamp how young players get brought into the set up (and air out some grievances like the fact Leeds feel their above the rules in this regard - but thats another story for another day).

    The greatest irony is that overseas players don't particularly offer great value for money at the moment between the exchange rates, the recruiting power of the NRL and the quality of player that would consider coming over at the moment. But it seems the majority of clubs are now almost scared of unearthing diamonds, as to lose them to the NRL and the amount of anger they would receive from the fans isn't worth the years they would get out of it!

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    LFB and ms.
    I agree with both your posts. How we can reduce it I don't know because of the employment law issues AND clubs looking at ways of finding "loopholes" in the rules. At Wigan Gelling has just got his British citizenship, Hamlin doesn't count because he has an English mother. They should still count on the whatever quota IMO.
    Wire have signed Mitch Brown and let Harvey Livett go. Livett always looked a good player at academy level whenever I saw him and also in the first team.
    ms, your last paragraph sums it all up although it doesn't bother me to the same extent as the majority of fans regarding players who want to try their luck down under. As I've said previously Hull now scrapping their reserve side and running a combined academy with HKR but having seven or more overseas players doesn't sit right with me at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    My worry is the number of overseas players coming into the game, it appears to be increasing. Leeds have seven, Hull I think are the same and now Wire appear to be following that trend. As has been mentioned on other topics a lot of them are playing in the pivotal positions. I would love the RFL to make it three per team maximum.
    Yes, its been a worry for quite a few seasons now too many overseas players at the career expense of our younger players. I know from first hand that McManus always wanted to improve the home grown player pool but a lot of other clubs mainly in Yorkshire are not on the same page.
    Maybe a salary cap top up from the RFL to create a "British Player Incentive" could be looked at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    LFB and ms.
    I agree with both your posts. How we can reduce it I don't know because of the employment law issues AND clubs looking at ways of finding "loopholes" in the rules. At Wigan Gelling has just got his British citizenship, Hamlin doesn't count because he has an English mother. They should still count on the whatever quota IMO.
    Wire have signed Mitch Brown and let Harvey Livett go. Livett always looked a good player at academy level whenever I saw him and also in the first team.
    ms, your last paragraph sums it all up although it doesn't bother me to the same extent as the majority of fans regarding players who want to try their luck down under. As I've said previously Hull now scrapping their reserve side and running a combined academy with HKR but having seven or more overseas players doesn't sit right with me at all.
    Fortunately, both Gelling and Hamlin count as non-fed players, along with FPN, Tautai and Isa (and maybe TL, but he may be exempt due to being over here when the rules changed, I can't quite remember) - by the looks of it though based on the above information, Wigan would have 0 quota players next year (the three I mention will almost certainly be able to use Kolpak rules), despite have 5/6 non-fed players.

    Livett is the ginger hair kid isn't he? Always seemed to impress so slightly surprised if he's been shown the door - would give him a year at Saints based on what I saw, and a backrow/ centre would be a good fit for us too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    Fortunately, both Gelling and Hamlin count as non-fed players, along with FPN, Tautai and Isa (and maybe TL, but he may be exempt due to being over here when the rules changed, I can't quite remember) - by the looks of it though based on the above information, Wigan would have 0 quota players next year (the three I mention will almost certainly be able to use Kolpak rules), despite have 5/6 non-fed players.

    Livett is the ginger hair kid isn't he? Always seemed to impress so slightly surprised if he's been shown the door - would give him a year at Saints based on what I saw, and a backrow/ centre would be a good fit for us too.
    They should all count.
    Livett I think has gone to HKR and yes he is the ginger haired lad. At least he hasn't been lost to the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    They should all count.
    Livett I think has gone to HKR and yes he is the ginger haired lad. At least he hasn't been lost to the game.
    Surprising that they've let him go. I thought Wire and their fans had high hopes for him. The bonus for him is now he's likely to get more playing time at Hull KR.

    The rule on overseas players used to be 5 allowed didn't it? I do agree btw, on clubs like Hull having too many overseas players. In their first 13 numbers, they have 5 overseas players. Faraimo, Tuimavave, Talanoa, Kelly and Minichello in their first 13, with Manu (no. 21) and Paea (23) also pushing for starting berths. That could be as many as 7 overseas players in their starting team. That's too many.

    Compare that to ourselves, we'll have just Barba, Morgan and Taia as starting players. On top of that is Douglas and Peyroux. 5 should be the limit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    LFB and ms.
    I agree with both your posts. How we can reduce it I don't know because of the employment law issues AND clubs looking at ways of finding "loopholes" in the rules. At Wigan Gelling has just got his British citizenship, Hamlin doesn't count because he has an English mother. They should still count on the whatever quota IMO.
    Wire have signed Mitch Brown and let Harvey Livett go. Livett always looked a good player at academy level whenever I saw him and also in the first team.
    ms, your last paragraph sums it all up although it doesn't bother me to the same extent as the majority of fans regarding players who want to try their luck down under. As I've said previously Hull now scrapping their reserve side and running a combined academy with HKR but having seven or more overseas players doesn't sit right with me at all.
    The infuriating thing is that in the non-fed system we have a system that seems to have successfuly addressed the employment law issue. In order to make it legally viable, all overseas players that were already in SL when the rule was introduced were granted exemptions, which meant that even though the limit was 5, for the first few years there were still plenty more overseas players knocking about. As those players with exemptions began to retire, though, the limit began to become a real consideration, which meant clubs had to think carefully about their recruitment and invest in producing more young players. In other words, it was beginning to work.

    So what did the clubs do? They voted to increase the limit to 7. That's the governance of the game in the UK in a nutshell.
    Last edited by Dux; 23rd November 2017 at 13:43.

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    Apologies for a bit of misinfo. It's Will Dagger who has left Wire to go to HKR not Livett.
    However the point still stands as he looked a very good player at academy level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KelCloset View Post
    Instead of signing a world class player like Barba and the most outstanding championship player, can we go back to signing 5 or 6 journeymen over the winter just to excite the speccies? I would happily settle for a handful of Peyroux and Laffranchis any day of the week.

    I agree - and those who get paid for getting it right do too - Skybet have us 2nd favourites at 4/1 for the Grand Final so I am not worried either

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    Fullback: Barba, Lomax, Makinson

    Wing: Makinson, Grace, Swift

    Centre: Percival, Morgan, Peyroux

    Halfbacks: Smith, Fages, Lomax, Richardson

    Props: Walmsley, Thompson, Douglas, LMS, Amor, Lees.

    Hooker: Roby, Fages

    Second row: Taia, Peyroux, Bentley, Wilkin, Ashworth, Knowles.

    Loose forward: Knowles, Wilkin.

    As much as we'd like a couple more in, it's not the worst squad we've had. A lot of it we can only wait and see on. Wait and see if Bentley or Ashworth can come in and do well. Wait and see if Amor has a terrible season like 2017 and 2015 or a good season like 2014 and 2016.

    I'm optimistic it'll be a good year for us. I think a full pre-season under this coach will benefit us massively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loose Forward Bloke View Post
    Surprising that they've let him go. I thought Wire and their fans had high hopes for him. The bonus for him is now he's likely to get more playing time at Hull KR.

    The rule on overseas players used to be 5 allowed didn't it? I do agree btw, on clubs like Hull having too many overseas players. In their first 13 numbers, they have 5 overseas players. Faraimo, Tuimavave, Talanoa, Kelly and Minichello in their first 13, with Manu (no. 21) and Paea (23) also pushing for starting berths. That could be as many as 7 overseas players in their starting team. That's too many.

    Compare that to ourselves, we'll have just Barba, Morgan and Taia as starting players. On top of that is Douglas and Peyroux. 5 should be the limit.
    Don't forget Fages, so we're not far behind

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southport Saint View Post
    Don't forget Fages, so we're not far behind
    Fages isn't a non fed or a quota player Barba, Morgan, Taia, Douglas and Peyroux are the non-fed players in our squad, and I would guess technically, only Morgan would qualify as quota (but thats just because I don't know about his ancestory).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starman View Post
    Fullback: Barba, Lomax, Makinson

    Wing: Makinson, Grace, Swift

    Centre: Percival, Morgan, Peyroux

    Halfbacks: Smith, Fages, Lomax, Richardson

    Props: Walmsley, Thompson, Douglas, LMS, Amor, Lees.

    Hooker: Roby, Fages

    Second row: Taia, Peyroux, Bentley, Wilkin, Ashworth, Knowles.

    Loose forward: Knowles, Wilkin.

    As much as we'd like a couple more in, it's not the worst squad we've had. A lot of it we can only wait and see on. Wait and see if Bentley or Ashworth can come in and do well. Wait and see if Amor has a terrible season like 2017 and 2015 or a good season like 2014 and 2016.

    I'm optimistic it'll be a good year for us. I think a full pre-season under this coach will benefit us massively.
    There's a few more youngsters who will come in this year
    2nd Row - Liam Cooper & Ben Morris
    Hooker - Aaron Smith
    Half back - Rob Fairclough
    Utility back - Matty Costello (can play pretty much anywhere 1 - 6)

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