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Thread: Transfers

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor View Post
    I wouldn't mind being shown a door that opened to St. George Illawarra
    I agree, but the door could be revolving when your in the NRL

  2. #77
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    If Ben Currie does want to leave Wire then we should be all over that deal. Would cost a lot but what an incredible signing it would be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintH517 View Post
    If Ben Currie does want to leave Wire then we should be all over that deal. Would cost a lot but what an incredible signing it would be.
    There are rumours that quite a few of their senior players are wanting out, which have been fanned since Westerman has left.

    If the Roberts deal goes south (and its looking increasingly likely that it will), I am sure theres a deal to be done for Matty Smith, if the club can get him on board...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintH517 View Post
    If Ben Currie does want to leave Wire then we should be all over that deal. Would cost a lot but what an incredible signing it would be.
    I said a while ago that the attitude of the club had changed regarding recruitment. Someone asked me for an example and I said that 20 years ago we would get the cheque book out and signed Ben Currie.

    Players like Newlove and Sculthorpe changed us from a nearly club to a winning club. Currie is just the player that can do that again.
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen07 View Post
    Would be a fantastic signing but buying players from the likes of Warrington is a different proposition now to what it was when we signed Sculthorpe. They can pay players as much as we can, have as much chance of winning as we do (in theory though they never actually do it) and so there isn't the same sense that Saints is a step up in your career for a Warrington player that there might have been in days gone by.
    I would agree but if there is discord at Wire then surely the time to strike is now, even if there is only a small chance.

    I didn't think Wigan would have been able to sign John Bateman from Bradford but they had a dip and Wigan struck.
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

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    It is nice to talk about some of these top signings but I think we all know that unless we offload some of the big earners we have recently signed or re-signed we have no capacity on the salary cap. At least at Warrington if they appoint a new coach quick enough they will have a chance to get their own players in.

  7. #82
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    Hill would be a good partnership for Walmseley.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Cleal View Post
    I would agree but if there is discord at Wire then surely the time to strike is now, even if there is only a small chance.

    I didn't think Wigan would have been able to sign John Bateman from Bradford but they had a dip and Wigan struck.
    BRadford were going under so needed the sale

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert80 View Post
    It is nice to talk about some of these top signings but I think we all know that unless we offload some of the big earners we have recently signed or re-signed we have no capacity on the salary cap. At least at Warrington if they appoint a new coach quick enough they will have a chance to get their own players in.
    Spot on.

    2016 recruitment will continue to hurt Saints way beyond 2017.

  10. #85
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    I think we have plenty of players who we could realistically get rid of to free up a lot of cap space for next year. Smith as well as Amor and Swift wouldn't be short of offers and unless someone gets a long term injury neither are going to be getting a sustained run in the team next year. Peyroux out of contract as well and with our recruiting team wouldn't shock me if he's on something stupid. Suppose you could add LMS to that list but I imagine he'll probably be here for what should be his last season at the club and Tommy Lee must be leaving as well.

    Can't imagine we'd ever pay the fee for Currie or Hill though, both would be great signings especially Currie. For me we're one player of his quality away from being favourites for next year. Priority at the moment should be a prop though and looking at Super League players Hill, Fifita and Ikahihifo would be the best options for that position. Englands also had a good season and I rate Josh Bowden highly too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Cleal View Post
    I said a while ago that the attitude of the club had changed regarding recruitment. Someone asked me for an example and I said that 20 years ago we would get the cheque book out and signed Ben Currie.

    Players like Newlove and Sculthorpe changed us from a nearly club to a winning club. Currie is just the player that can do that again.
    The difference in our recruitment now from them is 100%.
    Different people recruiting, different board, no 'rugby man' on the board, salary cap conditions, eveything.

    The big name signings dont worry me necessarily because their aren't that many about, what we miss is the ability to identify the right player.

    Yes we signed Newlove and Sculthorpe but we also signed Tuilangi and switched him into the pack, we signed Gilmour and Anderson because they complimented the players we had. Hooper, Higham, Pryce, Britt, Talau even Gleeson for a while the list is huge.

    Then we started to make do, not replacing players when they left, the confused policy on players over 30, ridiculously long contracts to overseas players who held all the cards and then last year, the 3 most shortsighted contracts in the history of the club.

    We've said this post season for nearly 10 years, something is missing at the club and i think it's that person on the board who has knowlege of the game.



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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    The difference in our recruitment now from them is 100%.
    Different people recruiting, different board, no 'rugby man' on the board, salary cap conditions, eveything.

    The big name signings dont worry me necessarily because their aren't that many about, what we miss is the ability to identify the right player.

    Yes we signed Newlove and Sculthorpe but we also signed Tuilangi and switched him into the pack, we signed Gilmour and Anderson because they complimented the players we had. Hooper, Higham, Pryce, Britt, Talau even Gleeson for a while the list is huge.

    Then we started to make do, not replacing players when they left, the confused policy on players over 30, ridiculously long contracts to overseas players who held all the cards and then last year, the 3 most shortsighted contracts in the history of the club.

    We've said this post season for nearly 10 years, something is missing at the club and i think it's that person on the board who has knowlege of the game.



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    We also nearly went bust. And that was with winning countless trophies, trips to Wembley etc. It’s about building long term and hopefully finding the next Roby/Wellens/Graham in the Academy.

    We’re making losses as it is without getting the cheque book out and let’s be honest even signing the likes of Barba isn’t increasing the attendance is it?


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  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    We also nearly went bust. And that was with winning countless trophies, trips to Wembley etc. It’s about building long term and hopefully finding the next Roby/Wellens/Graham in the Academy.

    We’re making losses as it is without getting the cheque book out and let’s be honest even signing the likes of Barba isn’t increasing the attendance is it?


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    Exactly. The investment has to come in the youth systems.
    It's a business and the sooner fans realise it the better, you can only carry on losing money for a finite time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    We also nearly went bust. And that was with winning countless trophies, trips to Wembley etc. It’s about building long term and hopefully finding the next Roby/Wellens/Graham in the Academy.

    We’re making losses as it is without getting the cheque book out and let’s be honest even signing the likes of Barba isn’t increasing the attendance is it?


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    But the players i mentioned aren't the superstar big earners. There's a huge difference in the quality of our signings in the last 10 years and no amount of spin from the board can change that.

    It's interesting that the club going bust is now some sort of mantra with only certain people's word being taken. Its also interesting that those people have made no improvement in the clubs ability to make profit yet no questions are asked.

    Only excuses provided on their behalf




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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    But the players i mentioned aren't the superstar big earners. There's a huge difference in the quality of our signings in the last 10 years and no amount of spin from the board can change that.

    It's interesting that the club going bust is now some sort of mantra with only certain people's word being taken. Its also interesting that those people have made no improvement in the clubs ability to make profit yet no questions are asked.

    Only excuses provided on their behalf




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    Ok some you mentioned aren’t. And I agree that our recruitment has been poor for a long time.

    However Sculthorpe and Newlove were big signings that added to the financial problems. Probably Gibbs too but to a lesser extent.

    When you look back at a team that included Sculthorpe, Long, Wellens and Cunningham at their peak, you wonder how we paid their wages and survived. All 4 would be marquee players today.

    Then that’s without your big earning Aussie players like Britt, Albert, Shiels etc and then latterly Lyon.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    Ok some you mentioned aren’t. And I agree that our recruitment has been poor for a long time.

    However Sculthorpe and Newlove were big signings that added to the financial problems. Probably Gibbs too but to a lesser extent.

    When you look back at a team that included Sculthorpe, Long, Wellens and Cunningham at their peak, you wonder how we paid their wages and survived. All 4 would be marquee players today.

    Then that’s without your big earning Aussie players like Britt, Albert, Shiels etc and then latterly Lyon.


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    I think you need to re-read what i said mate because we're basically coming from a similar point of view.
    I was saying im not concerned about us going for big names rather wanting us to improve greatly in identifying the right player.


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  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    Exactly. The investment has to come in the youth systems.
    It's a business and the sooner fans realise it the better, you can only carry on losing money for a finite time.
    Even more reason why we should have a full reserves fixture list rather than dumping lads before they have come into their prime.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    Exactly. The investment has to come in the youth systems.
    It's a business and the sooner fans realise it the better, you can only carry on losing money for a finite time.
    Pretty much spot on, I think it was around 2008 McManus started to generate his 5 year plan to promote within through the youth system starting with Edmonds and Wheeler followed by Ashurst, Tyler, Dixon, Charnock, Dean, Ellis, Gaskell, Lomax, Jones etc etc. Mick Potter was brought on board but failed in bringing enough players through to the correct standard, only Lomax and an injured one at that reached the required ability in class.
    Meanwhile I seem to remember Wigan where producing a couple of decent backs and the occasional forward.

    What we see now is quite a few of our “youth rejects” going OK in the lesser clubs within Superleague and the Championship. Anderson inherited a great mature side with only a few young prospects, but every coach since has not been good enough to bring that transition to Superleague from the youth systems, hopefully Holbrook might do better in this requirement.
    Last edited by STIDDY; 7th October 2017 at 13:57.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Pretty much spot on, I think it was around 2008 McManus started to generate his 5 year plan to promote within through the youth system starting with Edmonds and Wheeler followed by Ashurst, Tyler, Dixon, Charnock, Dean, Ellis, Gaskell, Lomax, Jones etc etc. Mick Potter was brought on board but failed in bringing enough players through to the correct standard, only Lomax and an injured one at that reached the required ability in class.
    Meanwhile I seem to remember Wigan where producing a couple of decent backs and the occasional forward.

    What we see now is quite a few of our “youth rejects” going OK in the lesser clubs within Superleague and the Championship. Anderson inherited a great mature side with only a few young prospects, but every coach since has not been good enough to bring that transition to Superleague from the youth systems, hopefully Holbrook might do better in this requirement.
    When Lenagan took over at Wigan three or it may have been four players were taking up 50% of the salary cap. A friend of my sons who had come up through the academy into the first team was earning £8K per year!!
    That had to stop and the focus became on bringing academy players through.

    In the last 10 years Wigan have appeared in nine academy Grand Finals winning eight which is a fantastic record. The pull through into first team squad has been excellent, ad as you have pointed out many players who have left the club have still manged to have careers at other Superleague and Championship clubs.

    At a recent presentation to young players who will be promoted to the first team squad (nine in all) Lenagan was quite honest when he addressed tham by saying from his experience only one or two of those players will became regulars at Wigan, but other opportunities may present themselves if the young players put in the effort.

    That may sound a bit cruel, but it's backed up by historic fact.

    if your academy can produce one or two players per year who are first team standard then it's doing it's job, any more than that is a BIG bonus.

    And yes reserve grade should be mandatory, all the fans want it, the players want it, but there seems to be a reluctance at the top table to rubber stamp it!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    When Lenagan took over at Wigan three or it may have been four players were taking up 50% of the salary cap. A friend of my sons who had come up through the academy into the first team was earning £8K per year!!
    That had to stop and the focus became on bringing academy players through.

    In the last 10 years Wigan have appeared in nine academy Grand Finals winning eight which is a fantastic record. The pull through into first team squad has been excellent, ad as you have pointed out many players who have left the club have still manged to have careers at other Superleague and Championship clubs.

    At a recent presentation to young players who will be promoted to the first team squad (nine in all) Lenagan was quite honest when he addressed tham by saying from his experience only one or two of those players will became regulars at Wigan, but other opportunities may present themselves if the young players put in the effort.

    That may sound a bit cruel, but it's backed up by historic fact.

    if your academy can produce one or two players per year who are first team standard then it's doing it's job, any more than that is a BIG bonus.

    And yes reserve grade should be mandatory, all the fans want it, the players want it, but there seems to be a reluctance at the top table to rubber stamp it!!
    Unless certain clubs have too much power and too much of a say....Leeds maybe.

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    Saints has a turn over of about 7 million but the squad wages total about 2 million. So should we really be looking at player's wages when worrying about the future of the club?

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    I notice that Cory Paterson is available:

    http://www.totalrl.com/leigh-let-paterson-go/

    He's looked underwhelming of late, but the Cory Paterson that played for Hull KR a couple of seasons ago was a very good back rower. Given that many think we need a big back rower, would anyone take a risk on him if the salary was reasonable?

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    I notice that Cory Paterson is available:

    http://www.totalrl.com/leigh-let-paterson-go/

    He's looked underwhelming of late, but the Cory Paterson that played for Hull KR a couple of seasons ago was a very good back rower. Given that many think we need a big back rower, would anyone take a risk on him if the salary was reasonable?
    If he could reproduce his Hull KR form then yes, but that was 4 years ago. He was excellent for them and went back to the NRL I think after that, before underwhelming stints at Salford and Leigh. I wouldn't be in any rush to offer him a generous or long contract but as a cheap option for 12 months then I wouldn't be altogether against it, given our obvious weakness there.
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    Not for me, no.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    If he could reproduce his Hull KR form then yes, but that was 4 years ago.
    God, was it that long ago?

    The Leigh fans actually seem to rate him as having been a good signing for them ... I wonder if the decision to release him is a financial rather than a rugby one.

    Like you, I'd be willing to take a punt on him if we could get him on the cheap on a 12-month contract.

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