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Thread: 'Give it to Grace'

  1. #26
    In The West Stand Dux's Avatar
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    I don't think it's as bad as some are making out or as good as some others are making out.

    In all the time I've been watching RL I've listened to people around me tearing into centres for not passing the ball when the centre has absolutely made the right decision. It's quite possible for a winger to have space in front of him yet still be covered by a defender on the inside (even if he is quick), but fans often don't recognise this. Now that this 'give it Grace' has become a 'thing', people are jumping on Percy to pass in situations where it really wouldn't be the right decision.

    However, there have undoubtedly been at least two occasions in the last three games when Percy should have given Grace the ball but didn't. One of these was against Salford, and Percy immediately acknowledged it and apologised to Grace. The other was on Sunday, but not, for my money, the one where he was ankle tapped by Tierney. In that instance he looked as though he was about to measure up the pass - his mistake was thinking that he was clear of Tierney when he wasn't. The one that stuck out for me was in the first half: he made half break and had drawn the cover - if he'd have passed to Grace then I'm sure he would have scored.

    For me it's not a big thing to worry about - I'm sure it will improve as both players are still young and learning to play alongside one another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brook View Post
    Are you one of the people that don't comprehend posts ? Let me repeat it, the Salford game that we LOST. Not the Salford game that we won. In case you have forgotten we play teams more than once. Go check the fixture list and see Salford v Saints then come back and apologize
    Why make things up in an attempt to justify your comment? Yes, we play teams more than once but Grace only made his debut at Wigan, 2 games after we'd played at Salford. The wingers at Salford were Owens and Swift, hardly capable of being mistaken for Grace in any respect. No apology necessary, I believe.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Blobbynator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brook View Post
    Are you one of the people that don't comprehend posts ? Let me repeat it, the Salford game that we LOST. Not the Salford game that we won. In case you have forgotten we play teams more than once. Go check the fixture list and see Salford v Saints then come back and apologize
    You mean the game Grace didn't play in?
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    Why make things up in an attempt to justify your comment? Yes, we play teams more than once but Grace only made his debut at Wigan, 2 games after we'd played at Salford. The wingers at Salford were Owens and Swift, hardly capable of being mistaken for Grace in any respect. No apology necessary, I believe.
    Fair enough i stand corrected on that front and i apologize for that,i should of checked the wingers who played. The point is still valid though i did say the game we lost and i took umbrage at the wigan walk part of your post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bewareshadows View Post
    Fans are idiots.

    Percival is a class centre and will get it right more often than he won't.

    He has managed to pull at least 2 games out the bag for us in the last month, which we could have easily lost.
    I agree, just seems to be a bit of a trend for me because Grace is a younger player. The reality is, he does a lot of things right and he gets a couple wrong like most players, it's just heightened because of the position he plays. Fages' decision making is a bigger issue than Percival's IMO but it's not as clear on the eye because he's a half back. A lot of it is communication as well, there was a try we conceded the other week from a kick that Grace should have called for but didn't, they'll improve the more they play together.

    I don't see it as too big an issue at all, hell of a lot different calling it from the stands than on the field, he'll know how quickly the defenders are sliding across. Every time he gets the ball people scream "pass it" even when he's made the right decision by not doing.
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  6. #31
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    The other side to this is Grace could shout for the ball more or go up to percy and say " it's on outside give it me "

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    I sometimes think give it to grace, but more when we are coming off our line not just on a fourth or fifth tackle. We tend to use our wingers to drive from our goal line more than most anyway. I would like to use our bigger men to drive away down the right and draw the defence across then a quick shift to the left and let Grace take on his opposite with more space, he just seems to have the right amount of pace and balance to skin his opposite one on one. IIRC the kangaroos in the 80's were s**t scared of Martin Offiah getting the ball in space and would mark him with two fast wingers I think one was Ettingshausen.

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    Percy is a star a fine player in the Schofield mode. Regan needs time and confidence which he is building with the assistance of Percy.

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    Percy is the future of saints and fans should keep off his back. Grace on the other hand is an average player and should be playing or Salford instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metalsaint View Post
    Percy is the future of saints and fans should keep off his back. Grace on the other hand is an average player and should be playing or Salford instead.
    Grace is a decent prospect. Lets hope he does not pick up a serious injury carrying the ball out. We would not have asked Vollenhoven to do it. He would have been slaughtered in the current game the build he was. I am quite sure if Grace as playing for Castleford he would be a sensation. Makinson was done last year doing the same. Time will be the judge

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    Quote Originally Posted by metalsaint View Post
    Grace on the other hand is an average player and should be playing or Salford instead.

    How's things, Adam?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    How's things, Adam?
    OK I will bite not Adam

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    Quote Originally Posted by metalsaint View Post
    Percy is the future of saints and fans should keep off his back. Grace on the other hand is an average player and should be playing or Salford instead.
    Well said, Mrs Percival.
    ps. Marky, don't be too late for tea come Sunday .

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert80 View Post
    Grace is a decent prospect. Lets hope he does not pick up a serious injury carrying the ball out. We would not have asked Vollenhoven to do it. He would have been slaughtered in the current game the build he was. I am quite sure if Grace as playing for Castleford he would be a sensation. Makinson was done last year doing the same. Time will be the judge
    You've sort of brushed this under the carpet there, I see it as more of an issue than that. Whether we like it or not, it's highly beneficial to have a couple of players in the backline who can make those carries coming away from their own line. Even Castleford have Hardaker and Webster who take some putting down and it makes it easier for their forwards. We must have one of the smallest back lines in the league and I do think it shows at times. It certainly makes it harder for us clearing our own line and puts our forwards under more pressure than most packs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert80 View Post
    Grace is a decent prospect. Lets hope he does not pick up a serious injury carrying the ball out. We would not have asked Vollenhoven to do it. He would have been slaughtered in the current game the build he was. I am quite sure if Grace as playing for Castleford he would be a sensation. Makinson was done last year doing the same. Time will be the judge
    Forwards should bring the ball out,not backs,nobody expects a Prop to run down the wing and score

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris1964 View Post
    Forwards should bring the ball out,not backs,nobody expects a Prop to run down the wing and score
    Nobody expects wingers to be the ones controlling the line speed. I'd love to see our props make an extra 40 carries a game, but I can't help but wonder how fans would take it when teams are walking through the middle of our defence because our forwards are all absolutely knackered. The game has changed from 10 years ago.

  17. #42
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    All teams seem to use wingers to do a bit of donkey work up the middle, which is fine, but you have to be selective. I noticed a few times when Grace did it and the ball was played quickly it had to go right as we had no width on the left as Grace was not there. I have an issue with our wingers going up the middle when we are on our own goal line or so. There is not space for the likes of grace so his lack of size prevents us getting yards. For me this is when the props and centres need to do the yards. Yes get a winger to go up the middle when we get the ball back and our middles are struggling to get back just to give them time. We used wingers a lot when KC was in charge and it seems to have crept back in recently.

    Going back to the original post.. Is this article coincidence or a bit of a nod to the fans recent comments re Grace and Percy.

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  18. #43
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    To be honest we are not very smart using our wingers down the middle, our forwards should be aware of using the winger on the next play, the forward should be fighting to find his front very quickly so that our wingers are getting a quick Play the Ball. Quite often we are in "telegraph mode" and the winger is showing obvious intent but is waiting 2 seconds too long to receive the ball to run into a potential gap, Swifty is probably our best executioner except for the odd butter finger moment.

    Its probably more effective letting Roby scoot a bit more which I think is happening since KC left, Knowles could be quite good at it, but for the wingers it needs to be an effective planned play and not giving the forwards a one tackle momentum rest.

  19. #44
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    Watching the NRL and can't help but think why instead of having a pass to Grace or cut inside option do the centres (on both sides) never put a kick in for the winger to chase. Maybe at a coaching level decide that once a game when it does go left and Percy has a one on one and grace is outside him marked try the kick through. If grace is as quick as you all say he is then surely it's a viable common sense option. Mix it up a bit.

    Side note - this NRL standard is ridiculously high compared to us


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  20. #45
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    A lot of this really comes down to the style of half back player.
    Fages tends to feed our left side, he tends to run on an arc trying to find a gap and then passed to either Taia or Percival, by then the defence has slid across, so the they are working in a narrow channel and it leads to either• Taia or Percival stepping back inside.
    That left edge has been responsible for the majority of our tries this year so it seems harsh to criticise but by comparison, after Grace left the field Percival went on to the wing he scored a try which came from a superb cut out pass by Lomax, the pass cut out LMS, beat the defence and made room• for Percival to score.
    In a different thread recently Percival was being compared to Newlove but again the team played a different style. Close to the opposition line we would often make three or four drives to the right hand corner and then move the ball quickly across the field with long passes from• Goulding/Long/Martin so Newlove got the ball in space to score.• We used the same move when Willie Talau• took the left centre spot and again it regularly produced tries.
    And again, just to labour the point, comparison was made with Shenton at Castleford• but its the quality of the passes from Luke Gale that gets the ball across quickly and leaves room for Shenton & Eden.

    It will be interesting to see how we operate with Barba coming to the line from full back, as good as he is he will need the right pass to run onto .

  21. #46
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    Interview with Regan.. Go to 9:35 mins for his input. But it's all about RL.
    Believe it or not I had never heard Regan speak before. Very Welsh...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p059l457
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