Chapel House Motor Company Limited Advertising Banner
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 76 to 94 of 94

Thread: Bentham

  1. #76
    In The South Stand Saint_Claire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Golborne
    Posts
    4,533
    Rep Power
    21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    It's not very constructive. Do we think the rfl don't want refs doing a good job?

    Millard said the same 15 years ago, as did coaches 15 years before that, do you think there are lots of refs who are brilliant being refused a shot?

    Let's make them accountable, what does that mean exactly? Banned if they make a mistake?
    Go on then, what would be a constructive reaction to the appalling state of the refereeing? I watched both games today and thought the refereeing in both was truly shocking. I see no way to work constructively with people who think they are untouchable and who have egos the size of Russia. They are doing a dreadful job as there are no consequences to their performance by those in charge of them. The RFL doesn't listen to the owners, coaches or fans. If they did they would at least attempt to stop the rot. I see better performances every week by teenagers and young men on many amateur pitches and they get paid £25 per game. The SL referees are full time professionals - they should have identical consistent approaches to the game as each other. Punishments and penalties should be consistent. None of this happens. If the RFL can't see the standard of the refereeing is so poor, then we need to replace them as well. It's getting worse year on year and something has to give soon.

  2. #77
    In The South Stand Jackbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Lancashire
    Posts
    2,544
    Rep Power
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_Claire View Post
    Go on then, what would be a constructive reaction to the appalling state of the refereeing? I watched both games today and thought the refereeing in both was truly shocking. I see no way to work constructively with people who think they are untouchable and who have egos the size of Russia. They are doing a dreadful job as there are no consequences to their performance by those in charge of them. The RFL doesn't listen to the owners, coaches or fans. If they did they would at least attempt to stop the rot. I see better performances every week by teenagers and young men on many amateur pitches and they get paid £25 per game. The SL referees are full time professionals - they should have identical consistent approaches to the game as each other. Punishments and penalties should be consistent. None of this happens. If the RFL can't see the standard of the refereeing is so poor, then we need to replace them as well. It's getting worse year on year and something has to give soon.
    You are correct, and should we really expect things to change when we have Ganson in charge ? Head of Match Officials and Technical Director ! My arse.

  3. #78
    Learning All The Songs MancSaint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Sin City
    Posts
    1,415
    Rep Power
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    Is fundamentally disagreeing the same as disagreeing?
    What? Mate, your head's in your cornflakes.

  4. #79
    Upside
    Non Members

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MancSaint View Post
    What? Mate, your head's in your cornflakes.
    I fundametallly disagree

  5. #80
    Upside
    Non Members

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_Claire View Post
    Go on then, what would be a constructive reaction to the appalling state of the refereeing? I watched both games today and thought the refereeing in both was truly shocking. I see no way to work constructively with people who think they are untouchable and who have egos the size of Russia. They are doing a dreadful job as there are no consequences to their performance by those in charge of them. The RFL doesn't listen to the owners, coaches or fans. If they did they would at least attempt to stop the rot. I see better performances every week by teenagers and young men on many amateur pitches and they get paid £25 per game. The SL referees are full time professionals - they should have identical consistent approaches to the game as each other. Punishments and penalties should be consistent. None of this happens. If the RFL can't see the standard of the refereeing is so poor, then we need to replace them as well. It's getting worse year on year and something has to give soon.
    It is your assumption they feel untouchable, you have no idea.

    Refs do a better job in the slower, less recorded and watched amateur games? So when there's an easier job they do a better job?

    Regardless of the state of reffing the shear hate towards them is bizarre imo. In what other line of work would it be deemed acceptable to throw hate towards them continually? In what other job is it filmed and played back repeatably for people to check decisions etc. Etc.

    I agree standards should improve, but demanding direct action which puts them under even more pressure is not likely to improve the situation. Drop them a division and the next lot will miraculously be much better? I don't think so, and what happens when they make a mistake, drop them as well, we would have a revolving door of refs and soon run out of them.

    I would start with enforcing the rules from the players, the amount of diving and the PTB is an absolute joke and making our game look like diving footballers, if they dive penalise the attacker, PTB on the mark or penalty, allow a slightly slower ruck, bring back in goal officials, reduce the amount of instruction from ref, talking isn't fine but it seems the responsibility to move from the tackle is down to the ref, I'd stop the shouting at the ref which now just sadly seems part of the game.

    When the rules and players have sorted their act out I would then create some sort of performance objectives for refs, I don't think this should be for all to see, my HR department don't share my appraisals with everyone, it's private. This can be used like any other line of work. Attitude would be one of the measures. Coaches asking for transparency is that really likely? Does anyone else have their performance discussions at work put around the office, workshop or public domain?

    I would support r fs at lower levels, try to encourage more refs so we have a larger pool and help us enable competition at the elite level, the grief amateur refs get is nothing short of disgraceful, coaches running up the touch line yelling every decision as they see it, that's not coaching it's simply yelling.

    We all want to see a great product, we all want to see good officiating, but lots of aggression towards refs, more pressure, hate, tension on refs, allowing them to be put under more pressure will not improve the situation, even if it makes us feel better as we have taken our frustration out on someone

  6. #81
    Upside
    Non Members

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackbit View Post
    You are correct, and should we really expect things to change when we have Ganson in charge ? Head of Match Officials and Technical Director ! My arse.
    It does need strong leadership, I think Kevin sinfield in his new position should have an input, for me the refs will have an easier job if the directives from above are clear and players understand their parimeters from the outset, put into place during the off season

  7. #82
    Upside
    Non Members

    Default

    Should say talking is fine rather than isn't, it's a typo but won't let me edit!

  8. #83
    In The South Stand Saint_Claire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Golborne
    Posts
    4,533
    Rep Power
    21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    It is your assumption they feel untouchable, you have no idea.
    The flip side to that comment is that it is your assumption that they don't and that you have no idea either. Their general demeanour and body language suggests they feel able to do more or less what they want. The precedent has been set that despite some dreadful decisions the worst that happens is they have to do a week in Batley or similar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    Refs do a better job in the slower, less recorded and watched amateur games? So when there's an easier job they do a better job?
    That's a ridiculous comment. Amateur refs do a better job of reffing amateur players than professional refs do of reffing professional players and that is to be expected?? It's their full time job, they should know the rules explicitly and have a very high general fitness level, so speed shouldn't be an issue. The refs doing the kids or even open age games have school/work and do not have the time to rewatch games etc or receive one to one guidance. Of course I expect the professional referees to do a better job!

    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    Regardless of the state of reffing the shear hate towards them is bizarre imo. In what other line of work would it be deemed acceptable to throw hate towards them continually? In what other job is it filmed and played back repeatably for people to check decisions etc. Etc.
    Who mentioned sheer hate? I haven't seen a single post declaring they hate referees. Sheer frustration would be a better description. People are frustrated and sometimes do go way too far, and I agree that this should not happen, but hate is the wrong word. The way to stop this happening is to do a better job. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with the filming issue. This surely gives them a huge advantage and allows them to make the correct decision, so it's a help, not a hindrance. What is a hindrance is the ridiculous use of it, with this on field decision malarkey. That needs to go. They either know it's a try or they aren't sure. End of. Refer it if you aren't sure and make a decision based on what you can see, usually very clearly, on the screen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    I agree standards should improve, but demanding direct action which puts them under even more pressure is not likely to improve the situation. Drop them a division and the next lot will miraculously be much better? I don't think so, and what happens when they make a mistake, drop them as well, we would have a revolving door of refs and soon run out of them.

    I would start with enforcing the rules from the players, the amount of diving and the PTB is an absolute joke and making our game look like diving footballers, if they dive penalise the attacker, PTB on the mark or penalty, allow a slightly slower ruck, bring back in goal officials, reduce the amount of instruction from ref, talking isn't fine but it seems the responsibility to move from the tackle is down to the ref, I'd stop the shouting at the ref which now just sadly seems part of the game.

    When the rules and players have sorted their act out I would then create some sort of performance objectives for refs, I don't think this should be for all to see, my HR department don't share my appraisals with everyone, it's private. This can be used like any other line of work. Attitude would be one of the measures. Coaches asking for transparency is that really likely? Does anyone else have their performance discussions at work put around the office, workshop or public domain?

    I would support r fs at lower levels, try to encourage more refs so we have a larger pool and help us enable competition at the elite level, the grief amateur refs get is nothing short of disgraceful, coaches running up the touch line yelling every decision as they see it, that's not coaching it's simply yelling.

    We all want to see a great product, we all want to see good officiating, but lots of aggression towards refs, more pressure, hate, tension on refs, allowing them to be put under more pressure will not improve the situation, even if it makes us feel better as we have taken our frustration out on someone
    Some of this I do agree with - especially the part about the abuse amateur refs get. I have seen some disgraceful touchline behaviour. Saying that, when they report a club/team, NWC do clamp down on it and issue fines - they make a real effort to encourage better touchline behaviour.

    The main issue is that different referees treat the same incidents differently. If they all sung from the same hymn sheet, both fans and players would know where they stood and players would behave accordingly and there would be less antagonism of the crowd. You will always get a few prats who will scream but that's the way it's always been. The answer to the issue is better training, an in depth understanding of every single rule and consistency, and treating both teams equally. I am not asking for total transparency - but if a ref has a total shocker, I expect to see a marked improvement the week after, that is a perfectly fair expectation to have.

  9. #84
    Upside
    Non Members

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_Claire View Post
    The flip side to that comment is that it is your assumption that they don't and that you have no idea either. Their general demeanour and body language suggests they feel able to do more or less what they want. The precedent has been set that despite some dreadful decisions the worst that happens is they have to do a week in Batley or similar.

    I never made an assumption they do or don't, I didn't pass judgement, the fact is nobody knows what they are thinking only them, drawing a conclusion from body laungauge coulld be very inaccurate as this is during the game, not sure what body language you'd expect but I don't see any difference to the refs of 20 years ago. There have been some rare exceptions, these should be dealt with but shouldn't be seen as the norm

    That's a ridiculous comment. Amateur refs do a better job of reffing amateur players than professional refs do of reffing professional players and that is to be expected?? It's their full time job, they should know the rules explicitly and have a very high general fitness level, so speed shouldn't be an issue. The refs doing the kids or even open age games have school/work and do not have the time to rewatch games etc or receive one to one guidance. Of course I expect the professional referees to do a better job!
    The game is slower, much slower, I watch a lot of it, there are just as many mistakes at every level of the game tbh, just doesn't get the same exposure. If amateur refs were as good as you say why are they not in super league, if it's as simple as just selecting them as they are inherently better? One of the refs who got promoted last year got lots of praise in their first few games then I saw posts from fans saying they thought he was good but then realised he is just as bad as the others, has nobody yet realised this isn't the person but the position they are in? My post pointed out that the rules and players need to be sorted to help refs

    Who mentioned sheer hate? I haven't seen a single post declaring they hate referees. Sheer frustration would be a better description. People are frustrated and sometimes do go way too far, and I agree that this should not happen, but hate is the wrong word. The way to stop this happening is to do a better job. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with the filming issue. This surely gives them a huge advantage and allows them to make the correct decision, so it's a help, not a hindrance. What is a hindrance is the ridiculous use of it, with this on field decision malarkey. That needs to go. They either know it's a try or they aren't sure. End of. Refer it if you aren't sure and make a decision based on what you can see, usually very clearly, on the screen.
    Filming ensure all viewers get to see the play over and over, the ref doesn't get that, so again the exposure is there and so follows the scrutiny. I dont like the video ref, not sure what they should do with it to make it better. I liked the in goal officials
    Hate is maybe the wrong word but when you see countless posts from frustrated annoyed fans it certainly looks like hate to me


    Some of this I do agree with - especially the part about the abuse amateur refs get. I have seen some disgraceful touchline behaviour. Saying that, when they report a club/team, NWC do clamp down on it and issue fines - they make a real effort to encourage better touchline behaviour.
    [ there are systems but they are not very affective, not sure how it can be improved as some coaches don't feel there is anything wrong with their conduct [/B]
    The main issue is that different referees treat the same incidents differently. If they all sung from the same hymn sheet, both fans and players would know where they stood and players would behave accordingly and there would be less antagonism of the crowd. You will always get a few prats who will scream but that's the way it's always been. The answer to the issue is better training, an in depth understanding of every single rule and consistency, and treating both teams equally. I am not asking for total transparency - but if a ref has a total shocker, I expect to see a marked improvement the week after, that is a perfectly fair expectation to have.
    Consistency is difficult and you hear that they aim for consistency in the game not necassarily from game to game, I presume this is refernce to the amount of time holding down etc. We all want an improvement every week, but the pitch fork mobs won't achieve that, education, support, clarity, working together, understanding etc will help us towards a better product. 'Accountability' and 'transparency' just sounds to me like public humiliation, this may make frustrated fans and coaches feel better but it won't achieve an improved product
    .
    Responses in bold above
    Last edited by Upside; 30th May 2017 at 13:35.

  10. #85
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    446
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Reffing this game completely different to the derby.

  11. #86
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk STIDDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Kingdom of Wigoon
    Posts
    8,878
    Rep Power
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by markrvr View Post
    Reffing this game completely different to the derby.
    Yes, just listening to the game, Hull seems to be benefiting from the poor Bentham performance last Thursday. Goon fans on there forum are now calling Bentham a cheat, Isa playing great for the penalty count. Penalties 9-0 at the moment.

  12. #87
    In The South Stand Jackbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Lancashire
    Posts
    2,544
    Rep Power
    22

    Default

    Isa keeps hold of Minichiello's foot, and is tripped up. Isa, gets up and holds his leg, and overbalances Minichiello. Sky commentator, Terry O'Conner, says, "Do you know? he's one of the quietest lads off the field" Thanks for that Terry !!!
    At least Talanoa came in and sorted Isa out, no thanks to Terry and his bias Wigan Sky Team.

  13. #88
    Upside
    Non Members

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackbit View Post
    Isa keeps hold of Minichiello's foot, and is tripped up. Isa, gets up and holds his leg, and overbalances Minichiello. Sky commentator, Terry O'Conner, says, "Do you know? he's one of the quietest lads off the field" Thanks for that Terry !!!
    At least Talanoa came in and sorted Isa out, no thanks to Terry and his bias Wigan Sky Team.
    Bias because he pointed out he is quiet off the field?

  14. #89
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    446
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Best of that was when he told Minnechelo not to react. As far as I saw he got tripped up and then his leg lifted and he'd done nothing!

  15. #90
    Upside
    Non Members

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by markrvr View Post
    Best of that was when he told Minnechelo not to react. As far as I saw he got tripped up and then his leg lifted and he'd done nothing!
    He had a bit of a push straight after, but I think the ref was just trying to show he was being fair, nothing to make a deal out of

  16. #91
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    446
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    He had a bit of a push straight after, but I think the ref was just trying to show he was being fair, nothing to make a deal out of
    How is he showing he's being fair telling someone who's done nothing not to react? And I wasn't making a 'deal' of it just pointing it out as an aside.

  17. #92
    Upside
    Non Members

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by markrvr View Post
    How is he showing he's being fair telling someone who's done nothing not to react? And I wasn't making a 'deal' of it just pointing it out as an aside.
    He pushed him when it happened, therefore he reacted and the ref addressed him as due course when something like that happens
    It's a non story

  18. #93
    In The South Stand Jackbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Lancashire
    Posts
    2,544
    Rep Power
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    He pushed him when it happened, therefore he reacted and the ref addressed him as due course when something like that happens
    It's a non story
    It's a non story[/QUOTE]

    It got you two talking! COYS

  19. #94
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    446
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    He pushed him when it happened, therefore he reacted and the ref addressed him as due course when something like that happens
    It's a non story
    So it was due course not him showing he was being fair.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •