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Thread: Justin Holbrook. Correct time for him.

  1. #51
    In The South Stand warringtonsaint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    I agree and I suggested this a while back that we need to tell them 2018 is their last with us and if you can get a 2 year deal somewhere else then you're free to take it. Fingers crossed.
    Toronto may be the new Leigh. Hope Noble was only partly talking tongue in cheek when he said he to Wilkin yesterday that he'd take him there on an 8 year contract!!

    There's a few mentioned above that would find their proper level with them.........hopefully they'll be attracted.
    "The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom." Danny Blanchflower.
    Might have been written by a footballer about football - but never a truer word............

  2. #52
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Yellow Giraffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickles Forearm View Post
    In the cold light of day looking back at some of the performances of individuals and for me even more importantly the lack of interest by some. I'd be looking at allowing the following to find new clubs (contracts aside);

    Morgan
    Owens
    Peyroux
    Richards
    LMS
    Wilkin
    Lee

    With question marks over Lomax fitness and future at the club we could/should be looking at...

    New Fullback
    Makinson
    New Centre
    Percival
    Swift (third winger needed to put pressure on here)
    Fages
    Smith (even though criticised I honestly believe a decent coach can make his combo with Fages work well)
    Walmsley
    Roby
    Douglas (will do a job for us I have faith)
    Taia
    New Second Row
    Knowles

    New back up hooker
    Amor
    New prop
    Thompson

    So arguably 5 new first team players with a few youth promotions to plug the gap.
    Agree with the large majority of that. I think Grace is already in situ as that 3rd winger to put pressure on Swift though.
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  3. #53
    In The South Stand Nickles Forearm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Agree with the large majority of that. I think Grace is already in situ as that 3rd winger to put pressure on Swift though.
    Went away and added that on a bit later re. Grace.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickles Forearm View Post
    In the cold light of day looking back at some of the performances of individuals and for me even more importantly the lack of interest by some. I'd be looking at allowing the following to find new clubs (contracts aside);

    Morgan
    Owens
    Peyroux
    Richards
    LMS
    Wilkin
    Lee

    With question marks over Lomax fitness and future at the club we could/should be looking at...

    New Fullback
    Makinson
    New Centre
    Percival
    Swift (third winger needed to put pressure on here, argument could be made for Grace potentially)
    Fages
    Smith (even though criticised I honestly believe a decent coach can make his combo with Fages work well)
    Walmsley
    Roby
    Douglas (will do a job for us I have faith)
    Taia
    New Second Row
    Knowles

    New back up hooker
    Amor
    New prop
    Thompson

    So arguably 5 new first team players with a few youth promotions to plug the gap.
    Getting the right replacements is a must now. Unless I'm mistaken I think you have missed out Walker? For me I would put in the 'find another club' category.
    Humans are more concerned with having than being.

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    I haven't seen many people say wait until the end of the season and I think it's common sense to get him in now. Anything that goes wrong isn't on him, they aren't his players and they aren't using his tactics. If we finish in the middle 8s (we're well on course) then his role is simple - keep us up. If we want to limp into the Super 8s then he is going to have to lead us to a run of wins at some point because our win/loss record at the moment won't cut it. Middles 8s would be a disappointment but Holbrook is inheriting a mess and is entirely blameless. 2017 is a free pass for him to look at implementing his ideas and to work on a plan for an improved 2018. If we get into the Super 8s then good on him, he's done well in spite of a horrendous situation and hopefully he will make us at the very least a nuisance heading into those games.

    He has nothing to lose and everything to gain by arriving mid-season because 2017 (and the £290 season ticket...) has already long been reduced to rubble. His immediate job is getting heads up for both the players and the absolutely crestfallen fans and maximising the resources he has at his disposal.
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  6. #56
    In The South Stand Tez the Saint's Avatar
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    One of the most disappointing things about this season is the fact that it's there for the taking. Castleford have looked good so far but will get injuries, Warrington started really poorly, Catalan and Wigan have/are going through plenty of injuries and Hull don't look like a particularly great side to me. We should have beaten Leigh, Hull, Wakefield and Huddersfield really if you look at how the games panned out but we didn't and we are where we are. We just haven't been good enough in a pretty shocking standard of competition for various reasons.

    Just imagine if LMS threw that pass to Morgan against Hull, if Knowles threw that pass from dummy half to Smith against Huddersfield or we'd taken some chances against Leigh. Weird to think how different everything could have been despite everything that's gone on. We've been shocking all year but could have been sat with an extra 8 points, albei it's easy to look that way.
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    In The South Stand Nickles Forearm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    Getting the right replacements is a must now. Unless I'm mistaken I think you have missed out Walker? For me I would put in the 'find another club' category.
    I missed Walker out as at this time I see him as a squad player only. He clearly has something to offer more so than the 'let's get rid' players however simply hasn't shown enough to warrant a starting 17 place at full strength. Hopefully he'll improve or be another one season player (Shenton/Tasi etc)

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickles Forearm View Post
    I missed Walker out as at this time I see him as a squad player only. He clearly has something to offer more so than the 'let's get rid' players however simply hasn't shown enough to warrant a starting 17 place at full strength. Hopefully he'll improve or be another one season player (Shenton/Tasi etc)
    Maybe, but I don't think he was signed as a squad player. For me another on the list of 'failed signings'.
    That said I am happy to be proved wrong and make another judgement after Holbrook has had some time with this pick and mix of a team.
    Humans are more concerned with having than being.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    Maybe, but I don't think he was signed as a squad player. For me another on the list of 'failed signings'.
    That said I am happy to be proved wrong and make another judgement after Holbrook has had some time with this pick and mix of a team.
    Walker and Douglas were fairly impressive playing for Scotland, what have we done to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tez the Saint View Post
    One of the most disappointing things about this season is the fact that it's there for the taking. Castleford have looked good so far but will get injuries, Warrington started really poorly, Catalan and Wigan have/are going through plenty of injuries and Hull don't look like a particularly great side to me. We should have beaten Leigh, Hull, Wakefield and Huddersfield really if you look at how the games panned out but we didn't and we are where we are. We just haven't been good enough in a pretty shocking standard of competition for various reasons.

    Just imagine if LMS threw that pass to Morgan against Hull, if Knowles threw that pass from dummy half to Smith against Huddersfield or we'd taken some chances against Leigh. Weird to think how different everything could have been despite everything that's gone on. We've been shocking all year but could have been sat with an extra 8 points, albei it's easy to look that way.

    Yep. Bloody annoying innit? Before the season started, I thought we'd finish top of the pile - with Wire second. Shows what I know!

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Yep. Bloody annoying innit? Before the season started, I thought we'd finish top of the pile - with Wire second. Shows what I know!
    I had us second in the league, and I doubt too many had us outside of the top 4. I keep fluctuating between two thoughts, one that we aren't far off (due to a poor standard in the league), and another than we are miles away and it will take years for us to challenge again.

    I hope that it's the former, and if we can get a new coach in, who can build our confidence back up over the course of the year and recruit smartly, then we won't be far off.

    But when you watch games like Saturday, I do wonder if that view is delusional!

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    I still believe there's a 17 that can compete in this league. I think it's too late for this year now though. Recruitment has killed us if we get an injury to 1, 7 or 9 were snookered. As has been mentioned elsewhere, there's been games that were for the taking and we let them slip. I think those slips are down to attitude. Just because you've signed for saints it doesn't mean you can just turn up and win games. Look at the Huddersfield and Warrington fixtures, go 14 in front then start looking at Wigan and cas the following week and lose the game. If you look at cas, they go in front and they say let's put 50 on these lot. Leeds over the past couple of years, they won the treble then went to the middle 8's, that could be down to attitude then taking a knock with confidence. They have turned it round a bit this year. Hopefully Holbrook can change our attitude before it starts killing our confidence, make the top 8 and use the dead fixtures to build on next year.

    That's a best case scenario though, it could get worse before it gets better, Holbrook could also end up a failure, who knows. Interesting to see how it pans out.

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    In The South Stand Tez the Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RV12 View Post
    I had us second in the league, and I doubt too many had us outside of the top 4. I keep fluctuating between two thoughts, one that we aren't far off (due to a poor standard in the league), and another than we are miles away and it will take years for us to challenge again.

    I hope that it's the former, and if we can get a new coach in, who can build our confidence back up over the course of the year and recruit smartly, then we won't be far off.

    But when you watch games like Saturday, I do wonder if that view is delusional!
    I was genuinely really impressed with us towards the back end of last year. We lost that one game against Wigan where we were without Walsh and Percival but other than that, I thought we were on the right track. Those three performances against Wigan, Warrington and Huddersfield were excellent and I could see where we were heading.

    It's just gone horribly wrong unfortunately, it's been a total and utter disaster. Luke Walsh has been an enorunous loss to this team. I've defended Smith a bit but he isn't a patch on Walsh. Lomax is absolute quality as well but we just can't keep him on the field. We need him back though, he can't come back quickly enough. Vea had his defensive issues but he offered something with the ball that we lack this season. You have to look at recruitment again and again, the balance of the team.

    Nightmare of a season.
    Last edited by Tez the Saint; 15th May 2017 at 22:46.
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    Are we expecting Holbrook to make an appearance before or at the MW? Lolesi mentioned him coming this week. I know there is not much to say, but this has been the quietest low key appointment of a coach to a 'top club' I can remember.
    Humans are more concerned with having than being.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    Are we expecting Holbrook to make an appearance before or at the MW? Lolesi mentioned him coming this week. I know there is not much to say, but this has been the quietest low key appointment of a coach to a 'top club' I can remember.
    He arrives tomorrow. No doubt there will be an official press conference probably the day after or maybe Friday. Not sure what more we can do until he gets here. We have announced him officially, there have been quotes from him also.

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    He definitely arrives Wednesday. Hes not going to do much in 2 days but heres hoping his mere presence will spark some kind of performance out of the players against Hull

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Yellow Giraffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Chief View Post
    He definitely arrives Wednesday. Hes not going to do much in 2 days but heres hoping his mere presence will spark some kind of performance out of the players against Hull
    You'd like to think that some of the players, if they have anything about them, will be aware that they are no longer an automatic selection now that their mate Keiron has gone and that they have to seriously up their game.

    A new coach coming in should mean that everyone starts with a clean slate to a certain extent and has to prove their worth to the new man in charge. That means that players who have been coasting along all season with their new contracts safely tucked away, might have to actually do a bit now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    He arrives tomorrow. No doubt there will be an official press conference probably the day after or maybe Friday. Not sure what more we can do until he gets here. We have announced him officially, there have been quotes from him also.
    Yeah I know. It's me just wanting something happy to hang my emotions on to at the moment. I am dreaming he will give a rousing speech to the team on Friday and they trounce Hull on Saturday.
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    It will be interesting to see how he handles the media in the next few weeks and his pre and post match summary to the fans. He's got 10 games if he is a taskmaster to stamp his authority on the team and coaching staff, hopefully we will see progress when we get to whichever 8's we end up with.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Yellow Giraffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen07 View Post
    I hope you are right about that but I think a lot of it will depend on how difficult it will be to move on some of those who he doesn't fancy but who are on good contracts. I hope we haven't got any of those types that are happy to be out of the team but continuing to pick up their wages.
    I suspect we have unfortunately but I hope I'm wrong. As discussed yesterday they need to be ruthless with people and tell them this is their last contract with us and if they can find a longer one elsewhere then feel free; hopefully this will shift one or two who expire in 2018. That wouldn't necessarily improve the short term problem of poor performances but it would solve the problem of deadwood on our books beyond this year.
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    You can just imagine....."hi Justin, I know you have just got off the plane after a 24 hour flight from Australia, but you need to get on a coach now and travel 4 hours to Newcastle. Have a great day"

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Agree with the large majority of that. I think Grace is already in situ as that 3rd winger to put pressure on Swift though.
    I'd take Grace over Swift at the moment, there are just too many errors coming from Swift, too many loose carries and dropped kicks.

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    I think Morgan is a Shenton scenario.

    He doesnt get any ball in good space. We feed Percival like a growing boy and we over rely on him to pull us out the water.

    Shenton was fed scraps and got hardly any ball and we thought ahh not saints quality when in fact he is better than any centre we have had at saints since Gidley left us 7 years ago. Morgan will show a lot more spark with early ball and hard grounds.

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    Again I think him being a good coach for you hinges on whether he's been picked to change cultures and have a free run or whether he's been picked to tow the line.

    Usually coaches bring staff or employ staff they want when they arrive not just players. Going to be interesting to see how it pans out as again he wasn't at the top of fans wish lists when you where guessing who's next.



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    Quote Originally Posted by kirk1989 View Post
    I think Morgan is a Shenton scenario.

    He doesnt get any ball in good space. We feed Percival like a growing boy and we over rely on him to pull us out the water.

    Shenton was fed scraps and got hardly any ball and we thought ahh not saints quality when in fact he is better than any centre we have had at saints since Gidley left us 7 years ago. Morgan will show a lot more spark with early ball and hard grounds.
    I'm not sure I buy that. Yes, he doesn't get much ball (our right centres haven't done for ages), so I think we have to make some allowances for his lack of impact in attack, but he's also been pretty shabby in defence.

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