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Thread: Justin Holbrook. Correct time for him.

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    Yep, they were part of the Simmonds Transport Cafe empire.

    One of them had Roy's Rolls - the other preferred sandwiches.

    Their Alex branched out into Super League luncheon meats and launched Rugby HAM.


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    In The South Stand Greengrass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedVee Admin View Post
    Yep, they were part of the Simmonds Transport Cafe empire.

    One of them had Roy's Rolls - the other preferred sandwiches.

    Their Alex branched out into Super League luncheon meats and launched Rugby HAM.
    They also had a bar in Corfu called The Greecey Ball like the one Saints play with.
    On the Back foot looking for the front one.

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    Still can't make Coffee like JW especially a skinny latte.

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    Quote Originally Posted by palmorr View Post
    Am I the only Saints fan who remembers Roy Simmonds?

    I've never heard of this Aussie either!

    Why is he going to be any better?
    I think Royce Simmons gets a bit of a bad deal of us yanno. We got to a Grand Final which we should of won having the game in our hands. Challenge Cup Semi final. We did this with 2 novice half backs who excited us and we thought could be the future. We pulled off a great victory in the cup away at Leeds with kids playing and we also but 40 odd past Leeds at home.

    Simmons was a lot better than Cunningham.

  5. #30
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    When Kieron was sacked nothing changed? the coaching staff stayed the same so the players continue doing what they have been training wek in week out?

    Justin needs to come in and change everythng around get new ideas and cull this squad were possible.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Blobbynator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    One thing that has struck me over the last three performances is that however idiotically clueless we were under KC the one thing we tended to have was guts.
    I usually agree with alot of what you say but not sure I agree there. Look at some of last season's performances - Hull in the cup, magic weekend. Hardly performances full of guts.

    We have lots of issues that need sorting but the 1st thing Holbrook has to do for me is to get the self belief back amongst the players. They look completely shot for confidence and just don't seem to be fighting for each other at the moment. That spirit and belief that we briefly showed at Easter has gone and without that we haven't got a chance of salvaging anything out of this season and will finish in the middle 8's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Despondent Dave
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    I usually agree with alot of what you say but not sure I agree there. Look at some of last season's performances - Hull in the cup, magic weekend. Hardly performances full of guts.

    We have lots of issues that need sorting but the 1st thing Holbrook has to do for me is to get the self belief back amongst the players. They look completely shot for confidence and just don't seem to be fighting for each other at the moment. That spirit and belief that we briefly showed at Easter has gone and without that we haven't got a chance of salvaging anything out of this season and will finish in the middle 8's.
    True enough, there were days like that. But while my mind may be playing tricks with me, I just don't remember that many games when the white flag came out like it has done in the last two consecutive games. I remember plenty of games where we we were obviously not going to win because we could have played all week without scoring, but usually in those games we weren't letting the opposition run away with it.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    I usually agree with alot of what you say but not sure I agree there. Look at some of last season's performances - Hull in the cup, magic weekend. Hardly performances full of guts.

    We have lots of issues that need sorting but the 1st thing Holbrook has to do for me is to get the self belief back amongst the players. They look completely shot for confidence and just don't seem to be fighting for each other at the moment. That spirit and belief that we briefly showed at Easter has gone and without that we haven't got a chance of salvaging anything out of this season and will finish in the middle 8's.
    True, I think sometimes you need to look away from whatever coaching team you have at the time and go to the very basic layer of the players in there attitude and body signals and how they interact which other under pressure. There is a lot of apathy in this group of players who are quite happy to do a lot of back slapping and high fives when things are going right but when things go wrong everything goes quiet expecting things to turn around by itself when there is a lot of work to do to re address the balance.

    How many times this season have we scored a try, gone into comfort mode only for the opposition to score minutes afterwards, the game lasts 80 mins but the team play as though its 5 mins on 5 mins off.

    As you say Holbrook needs to bring back individual self belief, lifting weights in the gym or field training won't do that. He needs to speak to every player on an individual basis with constructive criticism and direction before he can work on the team as a whole.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rommel View Post
    When Kieron was sacked nothing changed? the coaching staff stayed the same so the players continue doing what they have been training wek in week out?

    Justin needs to come in and change everythng around get new ideas and cull this squad were possible.
    I agree but he will be hampered by the contracts we have in place. Smith is in the first year of a four year contract unless certain players can go out on loan Holbrook has his hands tied. The club have dished out some awful contracts starting in 2011 with a four year contract for a NRL utility player in Hohaia that's just one of them.
    We should also work on the basis that if a player is deemed not good enough for any club SL or NRL they aren't good enough for Saints ala Owens, Peyroux, Lee use your title winning academy to fill these spots.

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    Use the Academy why not The Holbrook Babes has a good ring to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armourer View Post
    Use the Academy why not The Holbrook Babes has a good ring to it.
    It he can bring a couple of tough NRL players they can make the call . The Holbrook Horde.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Newlove View Post
    I agree but he will be hampered by the contracts we have in place. Smith is in the first year of a four year contract unless certain players can go out on loan Holbrook has his hands tied. The club have dished out some awful contracts starting in 2011 with a four year contract for a NRL utility player in Hohaia that's just one of them.
    We should also work on the basis that if a player is deemed not good enough for any club SL or NRL they aren't good enough for Saints ala Owens, Peyroux, Lee use your title winning academy to fill these spots.
    That's something I have been saying. This new coach would have to be something akin to God to get something more from this group.
    It's a real risk bringing in a new coach when the playing staff remains the same and worse than that they are in the comfort zone and seemingly indifferent to fans, coaches and and the media's opinions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    His biggest fan winning action would be a win against the goons though we're no expecting that so no pressure

    With respect, we need to get away from this sort of short-term thinking that will handicap our broader aim of getting back our place at the top of the SL tree. This sums up how I feel:

    Quote Originally Posted by headtackle View Post
    Hopefully we scrape in the top 8. While we will probably have no chance of making the play offs at least he can blood kids and try out combinations in a risk free environment. If we slump to the middle 8s there will be heaps of pressure on to avoid the million £ match which would hinder things.

    Only problem with being bottom of the top 8 is that some players will switch off as nothing to play for. Shouldn't happen with a new coach and playing for places but who knows
    Get in the top 8 and use the remaining games to try new tactics, assess junior talent, etc, so that we work & build on that in the pre-season, bring in new players where improvements need to be made, then be ready to go in 2018.

    We've got the best Academy team in SL and we've had both management & some fans saying the players there aren't ready. I'm sure in the case of some/most that's true - but, as we've seen with Grace, some players step up when they play with better/more experienced players. Until they're tried in the first team, we'll never know (and could either Aaron Smith or Jonah Cunningham offer less than Lee?)

    Of course, Holbrook might have different ideas and want to just try to get us up the table as far as we can, sacrificing different ideas & development of young players in the process, sticking with the deadwood. In which case I'll just give up.

  14. #39
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Blobbynator's Avatar
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    The one positive of us being out the cup is it gives us three free weekends between now and the end of August which gives Holbrook the chance to get on the training field and work with the players.
    Quote Originally Posted by Despondent Dave
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    The one positive of us being out the cup is it gives us three free weekends between now and the end of August which gives Holbrook the chance to get on the training field and work with the players.
    Sadly correct. 3 months of hard work are the only things that are going to save us.

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    I think him being the man in charge might sort part of our problem as having 3 in charge with equal say isn't ideal. When kc was sacked wello should have been made acting head coach with traynor as his assistant until a new appointment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    The one positive of us being out the cup is it gives us three free weekends between now and the end of August which gives Holbrook the chance to get on the training field and work with the players.
    Maybe, best place to put ideas into practice is on the field though. Especially during a competitive game. The three weekends we are now training only won't allow for this. You can't tell anything about the true desire of players on a training pitch with the added negative of being once again out of the prestigious cup at the first hurdle.

    Big ruthless clearout required by Holbrook with no interference from McManus or Rush. Sentimentality has no place in sport when you find yourselves where we are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickles Forearm View Post

    Big ruthless clearout required by Holbrook with no interference from McManus or Rush. Sentimentality has no place in sport when you find yourselves where we are.
    I agree 100% but I worry that there's just too much of a clearout needed all at once and it will be impossible to do. Also, some of the people who frankly no longer should be at the club are under contract for 2018.

    The first 6 that need to go for me are Richards, Lee, LMS, Wilkin, Peyroux, Owens. 4 of those are under contract. Is any other club realistically going to sign either Wilkin, Lee, Richards or LMS?

    It's probably too early to write off Douglas and Morgan but neither look great at the minute, particularly Morgan who inexplicably said he prides himself on defence in this interview when we signed him. Some of his attempts in that department have been laughable. Is it worth trying to get those 2 off the wage bill?

    So that could be up to 8 unwanted players realistically plus question marks over Lomax's fitness so I'd say there are big doubts over at least 9 first team players.

    There's probably only 7 or 8 players in the whole squad who the majority of fans would all agree they'd want to keep. Off the top of my head probably Makinson, Percival, Grace, Fages, Walmsley, Roby, Knowles, maybe Thompson? Up until this year I'd say Amor too but he's been a pale imitation of his former self this year.

    So it's a huge job for Holbrook and I'm genuinely concerned that there's simply too much that needs doing and this won't be a quick fix. I'd like to think we've hit rock bottom in terms of the distance we are currently off the top but it's going to be a couple of years before we can realistically challenge again, unless the club have the ruthlessness and the ambition to really make some BIG changes before the start of next season. I just can't see them doing all that needs doing all at once.
    Last edited by The Yellow Giraffe; 15th May 2017 at 14:27.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    I agree 100% but I worry that there's just too much of a clearout needed all at once and it will be impossible to do. Also, some of the people who frankly no longer should be at the club are under contract for 2018.

    The first 6 that need to go for me are Richards, Lee, LMS, Wilkin, Peyroux, Owens. 4 of those are under contract. Is any other club realistically going to sign either Wilkin, Lee, Richards or LMS?

    It's probably too early to write off Douglas and Morgan but neither look great at the minute, particularly Morgan who inexplicably said he prides himself on defence in this interview when we signed him. Is it worth trying to get those 2 off the wage bill?

    So that could be up to 8 unwanted players realistically plus question marks over Lomax's fitness so I'd say big doubts over at least 9 first team players.

    There's probably only 7 or 8 players in the whole squad who the majority of fans would all agree they'd want to keep. Off the top of my head probably Makinson, Percival, Grace, Fages, Walmsley, Roby, Knowles, maybe Thompson?

    So it's a huge job for Holbrook and I'm genuinely concerned that there's simply too much that needs doing and this won't be a quick fix. I'd like to think we've hit rock bottom in terms of the distance we are currently off the top but it's going to be a couple of years before we can realistically challenge again, unless the club have the ruthlessness and the ambition to really make some BIG changes before the start of next season. I just can't see them doing all that needs doing all at once.

    Pretty much agree with this.

    Couple of points - I think there'd be clubs keen to take Wilkin, but the problem is the size of his Saints contract. I also think LMS could get a decent deal from a club, but again not on the sort of money we're paying him. In either case, why would either willingly leave? The only incentive would be if Saints had given two year deals (to end of 2018) and make it clear they wouldn't be getting another, and would spend most of their final year in the reserves, where they'd lose fitness & struggle to secure any decent deal beyond next year, so best take a 2/3 year contract on lower money for the 2018 season onwards at another club.

    Got to be ruthless, and given the overall performances of these two over the past 2/3 years, I don't think the club owes them anything.

    With Lee, I'd be amazed (and gutted) if he was on a big salary (I'd be thinking in the £20k-£30k bracket). For that sort of money, I think we could find an alternative club for him - whether on loan or even if we had to make up the difference in wages for a permanent move it wouldn't amount to too much.

    Richards again wouldn't be on a fortune. He's young, yes, and some want to keep him citing the usually true adage that props get better with age as their bodies develop. But the problem with Richards is that he lacks any sort of dynamism in his play and if he aint got that at 21, he's not going to develop it. I think we'd struggle to find an alternative home for him.

    Douglas & Morgan are tricky. I could see Morgan coming to an agreement with Saints to return to Aus because we can all see he doesn't look settled & happy. Douglas... it depends on whether an NRL side want to give him a deal that he feels would serve him better, because I think he's on a fair whack here. On the other hand, whilst I'd been hoping for more from him (closer to Fairleigh), he's not a bad player at all, and it was touted when we signed him that he'd be working to develop our younger forwards.

    So, not impossible to prune what we don't consider we're getting VFM from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Pretty much agree with this.

    Couple of points - I think there'd be clubs keen to take Wilkin, but the problem is the size of his Saints contract. I also think LMS could get a decent deal from a club, but again not on the sort of money we're paying him. In either case, why would either willingly leave? The only incentive would be if Saints had given two year deals (to end of 2018) and make it clear they wouldn't be getting another, and would spend most of their final year in the reserves, where they'd lose fitness & struggle to secure any decent deal beyond next year, so best take a 2/3 year contract on lower money for the 2018 season onwards at another club.
    .
    I agree and I suggested this a while back that we need to tell them 2018 is their last with us and if you can get a 2 year deal somewhere else then you're free to take it. Fingers crossed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post

    ...Douglas... it depends on whether an NRL side want to give him a deal that he feels would serve him better, because I think he's on a fair whack here. On the other hand, whilst I'd been hoping for more from him (closer to Fairleigh), he's not a bad player at all, and it was touted when we signed him that he'd be working to develop our younger forwards.
    I think most people were happy at the prospect of Douglas turning out for us on the evidence of his performances in the Four Nations competition (and similarly with Walker). What I can't believe is that players who can hold their own against the top international sides can't be bothered to do the same for a club side so any shortcomings must surely be attributable largely to coaching and tactics. I know we have been missing two of our better support players in Lomax and Roby but it shouldn't take too much planning to encourage others to support the ball carrier in expectation of an offload or pass before contact with the defensive line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    I think most people were happy at the prospect of Douglas turning out for us on the evidence of his performances in the Four Nations competition (and similarly with Walker). What I can't believe is that players who can hold their own against the top international sides can't be bothered to do the same for a club side so any shortcomings must surely be attributable largely to coaching and tactics. I know we have been missing two of our better support players in Lomax and Roby but it shouldn't take too much planning to encourage others to support the ball carrier in expectation of an offload or pass before contact with the defensive line.
    Agreed

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    In The South Stand Nickles Forearm's Avatar
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    In the cold light of day looking back at some of the performances of individuals and for me even more importantly the lack of interest by some. I'd be looking at allowing the following to find new clubs (contracts aside);

    Morgan
    Owens
    Peyroux
    Richards
    LMS
    Wilkin
    Lee

    With question marks over Lomax fitness and future at the club we could/should be looking at...

    New Fullback
    Makinson
    New Centre
    Percival
    Swift (third winger needed to put pressure on here, argument could be made for Grace potentially)
    Fages
    Smith (even though criticised I honestly believe a decent coach can make his combo with Fages work well)
    Walmsley
    Roby
    Douglas (will do a job for us I have faith)
    Taia
    New Second Row
    Knowles

    New back up hooker
    Amor
    New prop
    Thompson

    So arguably 5 new first team players with a few youth promotions to plug the gap.
    Last edited by Nickles Forearm; 15th May 2017 at 16:00.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    The one positive of us being out the cup is it gives us three free weekends between now and the end of August which gives Holbrook the chance to get on the training field and work with the players.
    Trouble is most players use being out of the cup to go on holidays.

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    I'd stick Grace on one wing there and replace Makinson on the other if it was up to me. Obviously not that simple and I'm being hypothetical.

    There's plenty who need to improve though and I hope a few prove us all wrong. Hell of a lot of trust in lads who've never played a top level fixture as well but again, I suppose it's hypothetical.
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