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Thread: Justin Holbrook

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starman View Post
    Had a week's build up to Wigan, Leigh, Warrington & Cas under Lolesi & Long and failed to score 20 points in 3 of them and 30 in any; so I don't think it's as simple as KC has gone which is why we are now looking miles better in attack 3/4 months on. It hasn't happened overnight and I think JH deserves some credit due to how we look at the minute.
    Whilst Holbrook does deserve huge credit, it was clear that Long/Traynor/Lolesi had the players trying to play a more expansive game during the time they were in charge. The players obviously struggled at times, as they tried to get to grips with a move away from the conservative, safety-first, one-out rugby of the Cunningham era; there was a lot of dropped ball, misunderstandings, etc.

    But that laid a great foundation for Holbrook, because if he'd had to have started from scratch (if L/T/L had continued KC's tactics), then we'd be several weeks behind on the transition.

    So the contributions of Long/Traynor/Lolesi need to be acknowledged when we look at the progress we've made so far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Whilst Holbrook does deserve huge credit, it was clear that Long/Traynor/Lolesi had the players trying to play a more expansive game during the time they were in charge. The players obviously struggled at times, as they tried to get to grips with a move away from the conservative, safety-first, one-out rugby of the Cunningham era; there was a lot of dropped ball, misunderstandings, etc.

    But that laid a great foundation for Holbrook, because if he'd had to have started from scratch (if L/T/L had continued KC's tactics), then we'd be several weeks behind on the transition.

    So the contributions of Long/Traynor/Lolesi need to be acknowledged when we look at the progress we've made so far.


    Agree with that mate. My point about those 3 was that we have to give recognition to coaching efforts when discussing how we are attacking now, and not just putting it down to the fact KC isn't here anymore. It isn't as easy as that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starman View Post
    Agree with that mate. My point about those 3 was that we have to give recognition to coaching efforts when discussing how we are attacking now, and not just putting it down to the fact KC isn't here anymore. It isn't as easy as that!
    From what I hear, the most beneficial thing he's done is stripping the game back for the players and installing a bit of calmness. They're doing the simple things a lot better now, running in two's and three's rather than playing off the half backs all the time. The ruck is a lot quicker and they're playing with more space because of it. Against Leeds there were clear signs of panic when a break was made, desperation stuff and we ended up bombing loads of chances. Last couple of games they've showed a bit more patience.

    In truth though, there's still a long way to go. Castleford, Huddersfield and Leeds were three really poor peformances and we didn't deserve or get anything. Hull and Catalan were better but inconsistent, Wakefield was very good. An awful lot of improving to do with a lot of tough games to come but we're in a good position.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tez the Saint View Post
    From what I hear, the most beneficial thing he's done is stripping the game back for the players and installing a bit of calmness. They're doing the simple things a lot better now, running in two's and three's rather than playing off the half backs all the time. The ruck is a lot quicker and they're playing with more space because of it. Against Leeds there were clear signs of panic when a break was made, desperation stuff and we ended up bombing loads of chances. Last couple of games they've showed a bit more patience.

    In truth though, there's still a long way to go. Castleford, Huddersfield and Leeds were three really poor peformances and we didn't deserve or get anything. Hull and Catalan were better but inconsistent, Wakefield was very good. An awful lot of improving to do with a lot of tough games to come but we're in a good position.
    From the people you speak to and things you hear it sounds like KC was complicating a lot for them and as you say now it's been stripped down a bit. I think especially in the last 3 games we've found a decent balance between an effective forward based game with multiple runners & little tip ons and giving our backs good, early ball. We need to see that consistently now on in. Wakefield definitely the most pleasing performance with the ball so far.

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    Unfortunately his hands are going to be tied a bit by the squad he's inherited. While he's already cleared out some of the fringe players, higher earners are going to be harder to move on, making Smith's 4 year deal all the more irritating. It's been positive so far though so hopefully with a couple of forward signings to bolster the pack we'll be in a good position to compete on all fronts next season.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Think its worth reflecting on how much of a positive change Justin has made in his short time here.

    The players are playing with confidence and spirit that was unimaginable in the latter days of Keirons tenure. Holbrooks personality and passion and level headedness have brought everyone together and corrected the course of a ship that was sinking fast.

    Credit also to McManus for making the sentimentally difficult but logically unavoidable decision to dispense with Cunningham, and to Mike Rush for making what seems like an ideal choice for his replacement.

    I think there are some very good times ahead regardless of what happens for the rest of this year.

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    I agree - he's not put a foot wrong so far. It was a relatively risky appointment because he was pretty much an unknown to most Saints fans

    He seems to have what I would term a very positive anger in him, you can see the passion when we get things wrong on the pitch but he's still in control and telling Sean Long what we should have been doing immediately

    The fact that an unknown Aussie with no ties to the club can get almost everybody to feel genuinely hopeful once again just shows what a great job he's done

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    Unfortunately his hands are going to be tied a bit by the squad he's inherited. While he's already cleared out some of the fringe players, higher earners are going to be harder to move on, making Smith's 4 year deal all the more irritating. It's been positive so far though so hopefully with a couple of forward signings to bolster the pack we'll be in a good position to compete on all fronts next season.
    I think JH rates Smith - I see no reason why he'd be looking to move him on.

    Personally, I don't get all the Smith hate. Granted, he's unspectacular and not a running half but he's a solid player and, more importantly, he's as committed a bloke as you'll ever meet.

    I bet Wigan wish they still had him right now - their decision to offload him is looking like a bit of a brain explosion as it stands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint View Post
    Think its worth reflecting on how much of a positive change Justin has made in his short time here.

    The players are playing with confidence and spirit that was unimaginable in the latter days of Keirons tenure. Holbrooks personality and passion and level headedness have brought everyone together and corrected the course of a ship that was sinking fast.

    Credit also to McManus for making the sentimentally difficult but logically unavoidable decision to dispense with Cunningham, and to Mike Rush for making what seems like an ideal choice for his replacement.

    I think there are some very good times ahead regardless of what happens for the rest of this year.
    All points are spot on, it has not been easy watching one of the greatest players to pull on a Saints shirt taking the club to the depths of boring rugby week after week. And it has not been easy for Eamonn to rid the club of this icon but it has been done without undignified comments from either side. The Much maligned Rush has raised the game by opting for a (more reserved Millwardeque) style of coach who has put his marker down in such a short time and pruned and repotted the players to grow and flourish in a way none of us expected.
    I can only see improvement in the future and once JH stamps his name on the recruitment front (as if he hasn't already by nabbing Ben Barba) it is a mouthwatering prospect as to what heights Saints can reach once again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weetabix View Post
    I think JH rates Smith - I see no reason why he'd be looking to move him on.

    Personally, I don't get all the Smith hate. Granted, he's unspectacular and not a running half but he's a solid player and, more importantly, he's as committed a bloke as you'll ever meet.

    I bet Wigan wish they still had him right now - their decision to offload him is looking like a bit of a brain explosion as it stands.


    Agree, Smith is a solid performer, nothing spectacular but his strength lies in his organisation.....the guy is fabulous on the field, always talking and directing the team, just the type of level headed player that Holbrook will want.

    Looking on the Wigan forums, they are already lamenting this fact and have realised that the grass well and truly isn't Leuluai coloured.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weetabix View Post
    I think JH rates Smith - I see no reason why he'd be looking to move him on.

    Personally, I don't get all the Smith hate. Granted, he's unspectacular and not a running half but he's a solid player and, more importantly, he's as committed a bloke as you'll ever meet.

    I bet Wigan wish they still had him right now - their decision to offload him is looking like a bit of a brain explosion as it stands.

    Its a fine balance in the scrum half selection between Richardson and Smith, Holbrook probably wants to throw a bit more attacking variation at the opposition he can see the possibilities of that with Richardson. The other side of the coin is that Holbrook also wants composure and experience which is what you are getting from an in form Smith.

    A few injuries in the backline and Holbrooks choice is much easier, but in the meantime Holbrook has to juggle in keeping everyone happy and using the positives that every player is competing for a shirt which is limited at the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint View Post
    Think its worth reflecting on how much of a positive change Justin has made in his short time here.

    The players are playing with confidence and spirit that was unimaginable in the latter days of Keirons tenure. Holbrooks personality and passion and level headedness have brought everyone together and corrected the course of a ship that was sinking fast.

    Credit also to McManus for making the sentimentally difficult but logically unavoidable decision to dispense with Cunningham, and to Mike Rush for making what seems like an ideal choice for his replacement.

    I think there are some very good times ahead regardless of what happens for the rest of this year.
    Fully agree. I have said the same on different threads but have not put it all together in one post as you have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Its a fine balance in the scrum half selection between Richardson and Smith, Holbrook probably wants to throw a bit more attacking variation at the opposition he can see the possibilities of that with Richardson. The other side of the coin is that Holbrook also wants composure and experience which is what you are getting from an in form Smith.

    A few injuries in the backline and Holbrooks choice is much easier, but in the meantime Holbrook has to juggle in keeping everyone happy and using the positives that every player is competing for a shirt which is limited at the moment.
    Another point to make about the new coach for St Helens, is that Holbrook has no ties/no loyalties to any of these players. This is a good thing because he can pick the side on merit as you say, and you can see that with his team selection now. He is getting results from it too. Obviously he does have a connection with Barba, but he is one of the most exciting players in the sport and there is no doubt as to what he will bring to this Saints side.

    With Cunningham, he had to pick Smith because that was his signing and when he said 'he's the best '7' in the league' as Cunningham did, he had to pick him. Smith is smart enough to know that his position under Holbrook is not guaranteed and this should help push him with his performances for the rest of the year, knowing that Richardson is in competing for the same shirt.

    Things look promising for St Helens moving forwards in the Super 8's and it wouldn't surprise me if they make the GF. Especially with Ben Barba to call upon to provide the X factor.

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    I found this quite interesting. He does strike me as a bit of an innovator and someone who won't settle for traditional methods of coaching. It also made me think that had KC been going on the trip, no doubt he would have educated the other teams on the nuances of NFL and NBA. In his own head he will know more than their coaches.

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    He strikes me as someone who actually knows what he's talking about. Not only that, I get the feeling that coaching is a passion and he wants to be the best. I really like the guy and see him going on to coach a top aussie team.

    Worrying when he says everyone's locked in for next season. Hopefully we can shift one or 2 and recruit in particular areas.

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    Says he'd like another 1 or 2 so likely Mata'utia and a prop you'd think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by St Willy View Post
    He strikes me as someone who actually knows what he's talking about. Not only that, I get the feeling that coaching is a passion and he wants to be the best. I really like the guy and see him going on to coach a top aussie team.

    Worrying when he says everyone's locked in for next season. Hopefully we can shift one or 2 and recruit in particular areas.
    I read it as just because everything's done it doesn't mean everythings announced.

    Mata'utia and Peyroux to be confirmed, then we will start looking at another lot of deadwood shifting *cough* Lee *cough* before hopefully bringing in another player (ideally a prop Imo). lots of teams seem to be waiting for the World Cup so it wouldn't surprise me for the merrygoround to last much longer this year

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    I hate the Seattle Seahawks! Of all the NFL teams to pick he picks my NFL Wigan

    On a serious note. Good to see him looking for something new. I wonder if the team will end up trudging through mud in the Lakes again?

    I really do hate the Seahawks though..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    I found this quite interesting. He does strike me as a bit of an innovator and someone who won't settle for traditional methods of coaching. It also made me think that had KC been going on the trip, no doubt he would have educated the other teams on the nuances of NFL and NBA. In his own head he will know more than their coaches.

    http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport/...his_Grizzlies/
    Quite a good interview that, lots of positives and good to see the openness to learning new things. Daniel Anderson used to be similar and did a lot of research with other sports in the off season. Quite a contrast from a coaching rookie who thinks he knows everything. I know who I'd rather play for.

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    It's a great opportunity to learn new things and take onboard new ideas. Fair play to the club, who I assume are footing the bill for this. I thought Holbrook may have gone back to Australia this winter for a break then got into a bit of a recruitment drive due to the World Cup being staged there. He may still have time for that too but it's great to see him going to America too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    It's a great opportunity to learn new things and take onboard new ideas. Fair play to the club, who I assume are footing the bill for this. I thought Holbrook may have gone back to Australia this winter for a break then got into a bit of a recruitment drive due to the World Cup being staged there. He may still have time for that too but it's great to see him going to America too.
    No he is staying here as his kids are at school. The same with Barba (not sure if that's a good thing or not!)

    Holbrook has really bought into the culture here. His view is that he came over here to live for a few years so why go back.

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    http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport/..._good_or_bad_/

    Another good interview here. You can tell he's still really gutted just like us fans but he wants to use that disappointment to spur us on next season. He also refers to the players who were 'dropped' this year and expects them to fight for their place in pre season.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport/..._good_or_bad_/

    Another good interview here. You can tell he's still really gutted just like us fans but he wants to use that disappointment to spur us on next season. He also refers to the players who were 'dropped' this year and expects them to fight for their place in pre season.
    I've been impressed by Holbrook. He inherited some rubbish amongst the talented players in the squad and quickly worked out who was in and who needed to go. Not only this, he has has brought players on like Thompson, Peyroux a bundle and given young talent a go. Very good first season.
    Obviously the half back spots have a bit of uncertainty but I feel Smith is a goner.

    I'd like to see the side use a bit more craft next season; there were/are still remnants of too much exit sets, 'template' rugby and conservatism. My own view is that this takes time - for example, the way Cas play the game and all the different running options they use has come through hours and hours of practice as well as off seasons so unrealistic to expect JH to flick a button when there were doubts about our status when he first joined.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport/..._good_or_bad_/

    Another good interview here. You can tell he's still really gutted just like us fans but he wants to use that disappointment to spur us on next season. He also refers to the players who were 'dropped' this year and expects them to fight for their place in pre season.
    I normally try not to get too caught up in this kind of thing, but it struck me how gutted Holbrook was after the Cas defeat. From that and the way he talks about his players you get the impression that the club already means a great deal to him.

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