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Thread: Who recruits our imported players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddlyf View Post
    Who says Fages doesn't play? You'd imagine that at any given point one of Lomax, Smith or Roby will be injured and he can play 6, 7 or 9. If they're all fit, he's your interchange. At no point is he not in your 17 when fit.
    Yes lets carry on giving teams an advantage by keeping our better players off the field. Its worked really well so far for us


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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    Yes lets carry on giving teams an advantage by keeping our better players off the field. Its worked really well so far for us


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    If Fages is playing better than the others he plays. If he isn't, he doesn't. Fages has been inconsistent in his time at Saints and Turner was getting selected ahead of him at the back end of last year. On current form, he'd play. The precise issue that Saints have at the moment is that our 1-7 are all guaranteed a spot when they're fit. There is zero competition. Why would signing competition be a bad thing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddlyf View Post
    If Fages is playing better than the others he plays. If he isn't, he doesn't. Fages has been inconsistent in his time at Saints and Turner was getting selected ahead of him at the back end of last year. On current form, he'd play. The precise issue that Saints have at the moment is that our 1-7 are all guaranteed a spot when they're fit. There is zero competition. Why would signing competition be a bad thing?
    Who exactly are you talking about? Who is out of contract? Who is better than our 1-7?
    In reality we have the squad we have because it's what we can or want to afford, the nett result of the insane contracts handed out in the last 12 months mean the likes of Owens are all that's affordable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    Who exactly are you talking about? Who is out of contract? Who is better than our 1-7?
    In reality we have the squad we have because it's what we can or want to afford, the nett result of the insane contracts handed out in the last 12 months mean the likes of Owens are all that's affordable.
    Lomax, Owens and Swift are OOC at the end of season with regards backs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WBFOP View Post
    Lomax, Owens and Swift are OOC at the end of season with regards backs.
    Sorry I meant OOC with regards to who we could bring in that would be better than we have

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    Who exactly are you talking about? Who is out of contract? Who is better than our 1-7?
    In reality we have the squad we have because it's what we can or want to afford, the nett result of the insane contracts handed out in the last 12 months mean the likes of Owens are all that's affordable.
    There are plenty examples of players we could sign to improve. How many times in the past year have we had our 1-7 fit? Has it even happened? Every side in this league should have 8 or 9 players that are good enough to start in those positions. We don't. We're the exception at the top end too.

    Wigan have Escare, Tierney ready to come in. Hull have Steve Michaels, Jake Connor and Curtis Naughton. Castleford have Monaghan and Roberts for when their first choice are out. Salford have Todd Carney starting on the bench and Evalds out of the squad. Saints have Jack Owens. We're all working under the same cap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    Sorry I meant OOC with regards to who we could bring in that would be better than we have
    Well that's the thing. Isn't that the job of the coaching team to find out? When Brown was here he regularly identified weak points in the squad and found players to fill those slots. He was tactically baffling and tinkered far too much, but left with two trophies because he was strong when it came to finding players. There's a big enough list, regardless of how many are actually available. If anyone has the Super League one...:

    https://www.zerotackle.com/rugby-lea...contract-2017/

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddlyf View Post
    There are plenty examples of players we could sign to improve. How many times in the past year have we had our 1-7 fit? Has it even happened? Every side in this league should have 8 or 9 players that are good enough to start in those positions. We don't. We're the exception at the top end too.

    Wigan have Escare, Tierney ready to come in. Hull have Steve Michaels, Jake Connor and Curtis Naughton. Castleford have Monaghan and Roberts for when their first choice are out. Salford have Todd Carney starting on the bench and Evalds out of the squad. Saints have Jack Owens. We're all working under the same cap.
    Our biggest problem and has now got much worse is the attraction to play for this club under a non tactical confused thinking coach. I think we were very lucky to have Zeb Taia sign for the club and a bit of a gamble on his behalf. We are probably way down the pecking order these days for any "top 8" club player to consider a move to the club as an enhancement to there career. The image profile of "the Saints" is well gone and our future recruitment could well be like scrap bits of meat from the banquet table.

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    Which has been my point of saints looking Amateur these days. KC and co all seem to be the cheap option.

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    Its a pity the coaching staff dont have the ability to imorove the ability of the average signings they make.
    They sign has average players and stay has average players.
    Powell seems to be able to improve them.

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    As seemingly does Chris Chester and Ian Watson

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Our biggest problem and has now got much worse is the attraction to play for this club under a non tactical confused thinking coach. I think we were very lucky to have Zeb Taia sign for the club and a bit of a gamble on his behalf. We are probably way down the pecking order these days for any "top 8" club player to consider a move to the club as an enhancement to there career. The image profile of "the Saints" is well gone and our future recruitment could well be like scrap bits of meat from the banquet table.
    It's no gamble for Zeb Taia, he's 33 at the end of the season and still has a nice 2 years left on his contract.

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    Quote Originally Posted by St. Christopher View Post
    I question if Kelly is on Saints radar? There was ample opportunity to be in contention for his signing in the off season - and there was no sign Saints were in after him. For some reason Saints recent recruitment has steered away from maverick type players.

    Our glory days during the early-mid era of SL often had an element of maverick, unpredictable, flair players in the squad who could do unpredictable things. This was complimented by quality and good honest professionals. These days we don't seem to take these types of players on. There have been opportunities too - even in recent years - to sign these sorts of players. Albert Kelly is one example.

    Our recruitment has left a lot to be desired over recent years. Just one area Saints need to take a serious look at improving if we are to see the desired success on the field again.
    Yep, there was several flair players and halves available in the off season- Kelly, Sam Williams, Todd Carney, Ryan Hampshire and Jamie Soward too, were all on the open market. Soward ended up retiring because he had no offers.

    I highlighted the point before the season had started that going in with just Smith, Fages & Richardson, or Smith, Fages & Wilkin as it seems, was silly from Saints and has proved to have left them exposed. That said, I think Fages simply failed the HIA didn't he? So he should be back next week, but Saints need to look at the idea of a utility off the interchange, again as I highlighted some time ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tez the Saint View Post
    A few years back, I was completely against it but Lomax has lost pace. He's such a brilliant rugby player though and I can't help but think he'd make a better 6 than a 1 now and it would have such a benefit on his body as well. We could use Fages off the bench to spell Roby and we'd just be more balanced as a team.
    I've said this about Fages for a long time. He's the best option Saints currently have to do the role.

    Quote Originally Posted by teddlyf View Post
    Who says Fages doesn't play? You'd imagine that at any given point one of Lomax, Smith or Roby will be injured and he can play 6, 7 or 9. If your full back is injured Lomax goes there and he comes in at 6. If they're all fit, he's your interchange. At no point is he not in your 17 when he's available and you've got cover for 1, 6, 7 and 9.

    If Fages is in better form than any of those players he starts at 6 or 7. You increase competition.
    Exactly. The trouble with putting Lomax in at 6 though, is he's partnered with Smith. Is there enough speed in the halves then? I still think Lomax's best position is full back. And again, he Saint's best option there. Lot's of questions. Again it comes back to recruitment, and how St Helens have chosen to spend their money. And of course it doesn't help when despite what the coach Keiron Cunningham had said in the off season, that he doesn't feel the reserve full back and winger are ready. But surely if Lomax, Swift and Owens are all OOC at the end of the year, he will have to give them a go at some stage.

    Recruitment is so important and should be being looked at now. But if you are Eamonn McManus, do you trust Cunningham to make the right choices the next time around given how the vast majority of his signings have worked out? I'm not so sure.

    Regards,

    STEVO

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    I imagine they won't be announcing it if they renew that Owens contract. Wilkin last season all over again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddlyf View Post
    If Fages is playing better than the others he plays. If he isn't, he doesn't. Fages has been inconsistent in his time at Saints and Turner was getting selected ahead of him at the back end of last year. On current form, he'd play. The precise issue that Saints have at the moment is that our 1-7 are all guaranteed a spot when they're fit. There is zero competition. Why would signing competition be a bad thing?
    Turner seemed to be in because he was a big unit (presumably a man in the gym...) who played to Cunningham's rigid and one-dimensional gameplan.

    Fages is more of a maverick, who must do 'rugby-by-numbers' Cunningham's head in, with his exciting play.

    I'm all for competition for places, but Fages has been one of our top 3 performers this season. Meanwhile, captain undroppable, the mythical 'fans favourite', and LMS (since his return) can be as garbage as they want, safe in the knowledge that their name will be on that teamsheet next week regardless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WBFOP View Post
    And about 13st wet through, unfortunately this current regime lack the foresight to make a signing like Johnstone. The current regime think bigger is better, it's all about battering the oppostion into submission.
    Is that right? When I watched them last time he looked like a big, physical specimen - not a skinny flyer. Looked more like the body shape of wingers you see in NRL

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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    Is that right? When I watched them last time he looked like a big, physical specimen - not a skinny flyer. Looked more like the body shape of wingers you see in NRL
    I was being churlish, I apologise. My other point still stands, we would never go for this guy. He's just too much flair for Cunningham to handle. Hand on heart you know it too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WBFOP View Post
    I was being churlish, I apologise. My other point still stands, we would never go for this guy. He's just too much flair for Cunningham to handle. Hand on heart you know it too.
    Very true. Even if we wanted him I doubt he'd pick Saints over the other big clubs at the moment, who'd want to play for a side as dull as we are?

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddlyf View Post
    There are plenty examples of players we could sign to improve. How many times in the past year have we had our 1-7 fit? Has it even happened? Every side in this league should have 8 or 9 players that are good enough to start in those positions. We don't. We're the exception at the top end too.

    Wigan have Escare, Tierney ready to come in. Hull have Steve Michaels, Jake Connor and Curtis Naughton. Castleford have Monaghan and Roberts for when their first choice are out. Salford have Todd Carney starting on the bench and Evalds out of the squad. Saints have Jack Owens. We're all working under the same cap.
    But what you're suggesting isnt the same thing. You're saying we should leave one of our better performers on the bench to fill in around injuries.



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    If is a 17 man game now, often a game is won by the team with the stronger bench.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    If is a 17 man game now, often a game is won by the team with the stronger bench.
    Im sorry but thats just management speak, how many times in the last 2 years have we had a strong bench including the likes of Walmsley & Roby for the game to be almost gone before they took the field?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    Im sorry but thats just management speak, how many times in the last 2 years have we had a strong bench including the likes of Walmsley & Roby for the game to be almost gone before they took the field?


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    That's because we have a poor squad.

    When we were successful in the early years of Super League we would often have the likes of Tuilagi, Martin & Matautia on the bench.

    2006 Grand Final subs were Roby, Bennett, Graham, Faasavalu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    That's because we have a poor squad.

    When we were successful in the early years of Super League we would often have the likes of Tuilagi, Martin & Matautia on the bench.
    So we're back to my original point which was to question why on earth you would take one of our best players and use him as an interchange option when that would leave us in a weaker state.

    If Lomax doesn't have the legs for full back anymore then there is the option of him playing at 13. one of his best games ever for Saints was in that position, it keeps him, Smith and Fages on the pitch, we're not losing a forward because Wilkin isn't playing a forwards role and it gets rid of Wilkin, his hospital passes and his hoof and hope kicking technique

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    So we're back to my original point which was to question why on earth you would take one of our best players and use him as an interchange option when that would leave us in a weaker state.

    If Lomax doesn't have the legs for full back anymore then there is the option of him playing at 13. one of his best games ever for Saints was in that position, it keeps him, Smith and Fages on the pitch, we're not losing a forward because Wilkin isn't playing a forwards role and it gets rid of Wilkin, his hospital passes and his hoof and hope kicking technique
    I would sooner have Morgan Knowles at 13 been watching him when he was a teenager at the Ulverston and Barrow Island Clubs a real athlete who can be creative if with the right coach used correctly. I'm just hoping KC is not going to mess him about like Thompson + Savelio he's too good in potential to let go to other clubs.

    For Lomax I would make him a bench player and give him 40 min game time to rest Roby and sub Fages for a short spell to give a lot more variation, he can also cover for full back. Lomax isn't an all action 80 min player anymore and best used in short spells. Basically Lomax makes Lee redundant as Lee is not fit for purpose anyway.

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    The original point was that we are recruiting poorly from abroad

    We're paying money out to bring in players who aren't good enough if we want to win trophies.

    I know we can't get a modern day Lyon or Gidley but other clubs have done better with imports, even Salford have Lui and Sau, last year Hull had , Fonau, Talatoa, Tuimave and now they've added Kelly.

    There's plenty of other examples if you go through other teams.

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