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Thread: Who recruits our imported players.

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    Unhappy Who recruits our imported players.

    As the title says basically

    I guess the final decision rests with KC, the Chief Exec and the Chairman but does anyone actually take the trouble to go and check them out or do we just rely on highlight tapes sent over by their agents.

    Ok any player can make a mistake but when you are importing a player from the NRL and a great deal of expense, providing them with accommodation and a sponsored car you expect a higher degree of competence.
    You want them to be the players you turn to when things are not going well, you want them to be able to produce that little bit of magic that gets you through the game, you want them to lift the rest of the team but the likes of Morgan and Peyroux offer very little.

    Taia is obviously a different class but we only seem to have got him by accident and unfortunately he's at the wrong end of his career.

    It could be argued that Morgan is still settling in but he is supposed to be a player from the top echeleons of the game and I think it's only fair to expect him to make a bigger contribution to the team.

    Ok rant over !!!

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    In The West Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    As the title says basically

    I guess the final decision rests with KC, the Chief Exec and the Chairman but does anyone actually take the trouble to go and check them out or do we just rely on highlight tapes sent over by their agents.

    Ok any player can make a mistake but when you are importing a player from the NRL and a great deal of expense, providing them with accommodation and a sponsored car you expect a higher degree of competence.
    You want them to be the players you turn to when things are not going well, you want them to be able to produce that little bit of magic that gets you through the game, you want them to lift the rest of the team but the likes of Morgan and Peyroux offer very little.

    Taia is obviously a different class but we only seem to have got him by accident and unfortunately he's at the wrong end of his career.

    It could be argued that Morgan is still settling in but he is supposed to be a player from the top echeleons of the game and I think it's only fair to expect him to make a bigger contribution to the team.

    Ok rant over !!!

    He made a howler of a mistake tonight granted BUT:

    1. He had to go on the left wing when he's a right centre
    2. As Yellow Giraffe has pointed out, we haven't got a good ball handling right sided second rower so when Morgan is on the right, the ball to him has been largely a pile of poo
    3. He's had Owens right wing a lot of the time outside him. I'm no Owens basher but it's hardly like having Darren Albert there. Either side of him is more of a problem than Morgan himself

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    He made a howler of a mistake tonight granted BUT:

    1. He had to go on the left wing when he's a right centre
    2. As Yellow Giraffe has pointed out, we haven't got a good ball handling right sided second rower so when Morgan is on the right, the ball to him has been largely a pile of poo
    Exactly,we are so one dimentional we only got left and it's predictable. You could put Lyon in there right now and he wouldn't be able to do much with the service we give to the right hand side.

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    Dollar against Pound you are not going to get Lennie Lion never mind Jamie Lyon. We have got what market forces dictate journeymen bottom salary cap in Aus who can become higher end here.

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    In The West Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brook View Post
    Exactly,we are so one dimentional we only got left and it's predictable. You could put Lyon in there right now and he wouldn't be able to do much with the service we give to the right hand side.


    Sorry Brook I added the 3rd point I think as you were replying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    As the title says basically

    I guess the final decision rests with KC, the Chief Exec and the Chairman but does anyone actually take the trouble to go and check them out or do we just rely on highlight tapes sent over by their agents.

    Ok any player can make a mistake but when you are importing a player from the NRL and a great deal of expense, providing them with accommodation and a sponsored car you expect a higher degree of competence.
    You want them to be the players you turn to when things are not going well, you want them to be able to produce that little bit of magic that gets you through the game, you want them to lift the rest of the team but the likes of Morgan and Peyroux offer very little.

    Taia is obviously a different class but we only seem to have got him by accident and unfortunately he's at the wrong end of his career.

    It could be argued that Morgan is still settling in but he is supposed to be a player from the top echeleons of the game and I think it's only fair to expect him to make a bigger contribution to the team.

    Ok rant over !!!
    I think recruitment of NRL players needs to be set against the right backcloth; the financial crisis of circa 2008 and the consequential hit to the value of the pound combined with the increased financial powers of the NRL clubs has reduced the pool of players that SL clubs can attract. Most Nrl players are wedded to finishing their careers in Aus, the only reason they come here is for money despite what you may read so this is a big challenge to overcome.

    As a result clubs need to be smarter in their recruitment given the balance of power has shifted. Saints have failed badly in this regard and have done for a number of years now. The club have signed players who have plateud and have been unable to produce the form of their younger years (Laffranchi), misfits who didnt have the right skillset to a address a need position (Hohaia), and downright flotsam in th case of Peyroux.

    Years ago under the second phase of Lindsay, Wigan suffered some bad failures in their overseas signings. Vailiki, Bailey, Johns, Pongia wre examples of poor recruitment decisions as bad as the ones cited above. Given the decline in quality of SL its important to find diamonds in the rough so to speak, but Saints are coming up way short on far to many occasions. The club falls (slowly) behind the leading clubs as a result in a mediocre league.

    The retention of Peyroux baffles. He palpably isnt an SL player but out of what I suspect is stubborness he steadfastly retains his place week in week out. In the days of old Saints would have got shot like they did with Henare and Adamson.

    Finally fans need to realign expectations. My mates in Aus had tipped me off that in no way was Morgan a strike centre but some people on here spoke as if he was the next Jamie Lyon. The reality is its a tough market now and the club just arent making good decisions in this environment.
    Last edited by eddiewaringsflatcap; 30th March 2017 at 23:43.

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    It is possible to find some good 'ens, it has to be but i have to say so far it looks like a pretty average set of new recruits. Taia excepted obviously.

    It's all getting a bit depressing on the recruitment front, other than Percival we just don't seem to have any strike power.

    It may seem a bit "out there"but once Theo got injured i think Lomax has to go stand off and Tommy goes fullback. The way we play these days i think Tommy is completely wasted on the wing.

    Jack Owens isn't.

    Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

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    Criticising Morgan is all well and good but replace his name with Shenton and the result is the same. Have you considered we don't give them enough room?
    We have crabbed sideways in attack for many years and the effect of this is obvious for all to see. Is it coincidence that Shenton looked a much better player when he left?

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    Don't get me wrong I'm using Morgan and Peyroux because they are the current examples, its nothing personal against them

    It's more of an annoyance with the club It seems that each year around the time season tickets are up for renewal the make the announcement of a star import.
    Either the club is being duped or we are..

    In fact , come to think if it , I've recently retired so if the club wants to send me over to Australia for about three months or so I'll gladly compile a list of possibles.
    I could do it on the cheap, I'd only need one return air ticket cos wife could stop here. :-) ;-)

    Joking apart, if we're going to import a player from NRL either make it a good un or don't bother.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    Don't get me wrong I'm using Morgan and Peyroux because they are the current examples, its nothing personal against them

    It's more of an annoyance with the club It seems that each year around the time season tickets are up for renewal the make the announcement of a star import.
    Either the club is being duped or we are..

    In fact , come to think if it , I've recently retired so if the club wants to send me over to Australia for about three months or so I'll gladly compile a list of possibles.
    I could do it on the cheap, I'd only need one return air ticket cos wife could stop here. :-) ;-)

    Joking apart, if we're going to import a player from NRL either make it a good un or don't bother.

    The 'good uns' are quite well paid though

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    I'd been willing to give him time until tonight. He just doesn't have anything about him, terribly, embarassingly slow and no real eye for a break either. Peyroux is worse, like Bambi week in week out and yet he's never dropped.

    If I was in charge now, I'd drop both. Play the kids FFS. At least then we can limp into 6th or 7th with a bit of pride rather than whatever this is we're doing now.

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    Up to now Ryan Morgan has been extremely disappointing in my opinion. Whilst I fully accept that unless a Centre gets quick ball in a good position and Peyroux is not the best either he still needs to up his game.

    He made a shocking error tonight which cost us the game, but I can let that one go as all players make the odd howler from time to time but what I can't let go is him being caught by a second row in Mark Flanaghan. That is utterly embarrassing. I hope Cunningham tells him to do some Rocky style speed training with a chicken because I have seen three legged donkeys and cart horses run faster. I'm beginning to think did we actually sign this guy from Melbourne Storm or from some amateur club in the Melbourne area of Australia?

    I'm sorry if I sound harsh but he is here to play for our club not on some sort of holiday jolly.

    At the moment we have a non existent attacking threat on our right side apart from Smith kicking to the wing and it badly needs sorting. Opposition team coaches know this so if Percival and Taia are nullified the only attacking options we have are via the boot or drive it up the middle.

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    I'm not sure whats happened to Morgan because he looks a completely different player to the one who left the NRL. At Parra I saw him score some spectacular long range Try's, beating players on the outside with pace. At the Storm he got limited game time and his game changed and he became a really strong defensive centre. Since coming to Saints his attack and defence has been poor, We bought a good centre with proven capabilities but for whatever reason he's just not performing over here (so far).
    Similar with Douglas, he had some excellent games for the Titans over the last few years, never spectacular but a consistent performer to did the tough stuff up the middle week after week, getting the team on the front foot. Again he hasn't looked the same player since coming to Saints.

    Peyroux is a completely different story, he never displayed anything like good form in the NRL so the fans expectations should be much lower with him. That then obviously begs the question of why buy such a bang average overseas player ? He offers nothing more than a young player like Ashworth and I'm sure we could have picked up a half decent player from the Championship to fill the 'squad player' role, probably at half the price.

    Got no complaints about the signing of Morgan & Douglas, Peyroux though is utterly baffling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Furlongs View Post
    Dollar against Pound you are not going to get Lennie Lion never mind Jamie Lyon. We have got what market forces dictate journeymen bottom salary cap in Aus who can become higher end here.
    Then the solution is simple; you play the kids. Wigan have this down to a tee now; all their teams play the same way and then when they require the kids to step up they know exactly what they need to do. We don't. Our kids play like the Saints of old, yet when they are called up by our Great Leader, they are expected to play this dull drudgery he calls Rugby League knowing full well they will get thrown to the lions if they don't blow everyone away.

    We need a coach like Wane (God Forbid), who utilises the youth set up for the right reasons. If we don't put someone in like that, we will be skirting the bottom 8 come the end of the season.

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    Default Who recruits our imported players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Toppy View Post
    I'm not sure whats happened to Morgan because he looks a completely different player to the one who left the NRL. At Parra I saw him score some spectacular long range Try's, beating players on the outside with pace. At the Storm he got limited game time and his game changed and he became a really strong defensive centre. Since coming to Saints his attack and defence has been poor, We bought a good centre with proven capabilities but for whatever reason he's just not performing over here (so far).
    Similar with Douglas, he had some excellent games for the Titans over the last few years, never spectacular but a consistent performer to did the tough stuff up the middle week after week, getting the team on the front foot. Again he hasn't looked the same player since coming to Saints.

    Peyroux is a completely different story, he never displayed anything like good form in the NRL so the fans expectations should be much lower with him. That then obviously begs the question of why buy such a bang average overseas player ? He offers nothing more than a young player like Ashworth and I'm sure we could have picked up a half decent player from the Championship to fill the 'squad player' role, probably at half the price.

    Got no complaints about the signing of Morgan & Douglas, Peyroux though is utterly baffling.
    Douglas started poorly but I reckon he is getting better each week. I think he'll turn out to be a good signing.

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    It is more about recruitment than coaching. Saints have become also rans after several seasons of poor player signing choices by those who make them. It comes to something when you see the Wakefield and Salford players literally jumping for joy when the final whaistle goes. They have beaten the Saints now it is their turn to sit in the sun . Watching the Salford game on TV one could not help be nostalgic for the past when you see the likes of Long Cunningham and Martyn sat watching the game in whatever capacity and then cast an eye over those who run the show in 2017.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Peters View Post
    It is more about recruitment than coaching.
    How do you fathom that one out unless you think Saints should import average players and coach them to greatness, rather than import supposedly good players and coach the flair and excitement out of them.
    All I can glean out of the last few weeks is how bad Wire are after making Saints look above average last week.
    On the Back foot looking for the front one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Peters View Post
    It is more about recruitment than coaching.
    Gotta disagree completely with that one. Look at Cas and Powell. Over the last few years they've recruited players most other clubs didn't want or deemed not up to SL standard. Powell has developed their games moulded them all into a very good team. You don't look at Cas and see a team packed with world class international players, you look at that team and think wow that's a team who are fantastically coached and who gets the absolute best out of the players they have.

    Over the last few years we've heard Cunningham complaining that there just isn't the players out there with the skills - but the reality is we just don't have a coach who is able to get the best out of the players he has, he just doesn't have the right skills or ability for the job.

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    Morgan was contracted to Parramatta but was released by them, the Storm gave him a chance but they didn't want him and they sent him to their feeder team in the Queensland Cup and he was hopeless even at that level. I know Mike Rush has a big say in signing overseas imports, I warned him that Hohaia was shit but he insisted he was a world beater, I also said Morgan was rubbish. Whoever is signing these players needs to be sacked for not doing their job properly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Eclipse View Post
    Morgan was contracted to Parramatta but was released by them, the Storm gave him a chance but they didn't want him and they sent him to their feeder team in the Queensland Cup and he was hopeless even at that level. I know Mike Rush has a big say in signing overseas imports, I warned him that Hohaia was shit but he insisted he was a world beater, I also said Morgan was rubbish. Whoever is signing these players needs to be sacked for not doing their job properly.
    That's a very distorted view.
    He lost his regular starting place at Parra when they signed Jennings and he effectively because their 3rd centre, just providing cover should either of the first choice players got injured. They never wanted to release him, they were forced to because of their salary cap problems, just as they did with several other players at that time. Melbourne snapped him up, again to provide cover for their 2 first choice centres, and whenever was injured Morgan played. Melbourne wanted to keep him and offered him a contract for 2017 but he chose Saints because he wanted regular 1st team rugby.

    Morgan was never 'rubbish' as you describe him. He scored some very good try's at Parra and his move from wing to centre saw him really start to develop. The move to Melbourne saw the defensive side of his game improve under Bellamy, so when he signed for us, on paper he was a very good signing. He had pace, he had try scoring ability, and he was fairly strong defensively.

    No idea why his game has gone backwards since coming here, but its not through lack of ability

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    Our signings from super league are just as bad

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    I will judge Morgan when he gets a few passes from a decent SR.
    Learned comment from The Don

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    I will judge Morgan when he gets a few passes from a decent SR.
    Totally agree. Just have to look at how the left side has revelled in the threat from Taia and Percy and Swifty have both benefitted and are playing with more confidence. Morgan has to produce everything himself which makes it so predictable to defend. Just look back at the difference when he was very involved with Theo in the match winning try by Owens at Catalan!
    Schoolboy error though last night as he was hoping the ball would carry into touch but then panicked.

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    With a centre, I think it's fairly easy when it comes to recruitment. You just decide what type of player you want Big, strong, fast, skilful, elusive, athletic, etc. Unfortunately I don't think Morgan is any of these


    Wellington or Grace certainly wouldn't have been chased down by Mark Flanagan with 54 tackles already under the bonnet at that stage of the game

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    The Catalan centre Williame had Morgan on toast in that game. At present just looks like another poor offering.

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