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Thread: Jack Owens

  1. #26
    Starting A Programme Collection paulx2's Avatar
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    As i said, it's not an insult to him personally. He is just no good at the game at this level. It is only a matter of time before it costs us.

    It wasn't last night so that's great, we dodged a bullet but at some point it will cost us. That point has to be seen and 2 tries in 2 games doesn't change that unfortunately.

    If he looked good last night, that can only be because the opposition made him look good. Harsh but unfortunately it's true. If we signed him for back up then we shouldn't have done because he is now in the team for what looks like a long period and in the end it will cost us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulx2 View Post
    As i said, it's not an insult to him personally. He is just no good at the game at this level. It is only a matter of time before it costs us.

    It wasn't last night so that's great, we dodged a bullet but at some point it will cost us. That point has to be seen and 2 tries in 2 games doesn't change that unfortunately.

    If he looked good last night, that can only be because the opposition made him look good. Harsh but unfortunately it's true. If we signed him for back up then we shouldn't have done because he is now in the team for what looks like a long period and in the end it will cost us.

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    He was poor against Hull - offered nothing positive whilst coming up with some key errors.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    He was poor against Hull - offered nothing positive whilst coming up with some key errors.
    Yep, and what i find a bit weird is that because we won he is may be not too bad but when we lose he's the worst player ever to wear the shirt blah blah blah.

    Let's be honest he just isn't good enough no matter what the result. Fingers crossed he somehow proves me wrong but sorry, into season 2 and he has been singularly out of his depth. Also let's not forget, he was let go by Widnes!!! And you know what? I don't reckon they'd have him back even now, even as cover.

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    In The South Stand Tez the Saint's Avatar
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    The harsh reality is, he's not quick enough, big enough or athletic enough to play on the wing for one of the top clubs. There's no shame in that but he'll always be one of those players where his absolute best won't quite be good enough because of the athletic side of his game.

    On the plus side, he's a better player now than he was last season. His footwork is much better than it was, he's more composed than he was and he's got some real guts and courage about him. He takes some knocks but he'll pick himself up and will run at the same guy again. I'd never ever question his heart or his commitment. At the end of the day, all you can ask from a player is that they do their job to the best of their ability and he certainly does that whenever he plays.

    Anything that goes beyond that and is aimed at him personally is irrelevant. You see it on twitter and occasionally on here most weeks but it is what it is. He's an easy target and you tend to find that the ones who resort to personal stuff are the ones who'd run a mile from a Rugby League field and wouldn't dare say it to a players face. Some of the stuff I've seen from 'fans' of the club aimed at various individuals is sickening to be honest but if resorting to personal insults from behind a screen helps them mask their own insecurities... well it's their life that is the problem.
    Last edited by Tez the Saint; 25th March 2017 at 23:44.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tez the Saint View Post
    The harsh reality is, he's not quick enough, big enough or athletic enough to play on the wing for one of the top clubs. There's no shame in that but he'll always be one of those players where his absolute best won't quite be good enough because of the athletic side of his game.

    On the plus side, he's a better player now than he was last season. His footwork is much better than it was, he's more composed than he was and he's got some real guts and courage about him. He takes some knocks but he'll pick himself up and will run at the same guy again. I'd never ever question his heart or his commitment. At the end of the day, all you can ask from a player is that they do their job to the best of their ability and he certainly does that whenever he plays.
    I agree and as nice as it is to see someone improve and make lots of effort we, as a club, want to win things and i just don't think it is possible to win things if you have a player of that calibre in your squad never mind the first team.

    Effort and incremental improvements might be OK in the Championship and he could do well there, who knows? But Superleague, sadly, he isn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tez the Saint View Post
    The harsh reality is, he's not quick enough, big enough or athletic enough to play on the wing for one of the top clubs. There's no shame in that but he'll always be one of those players where his absolute best won't quite be good enough because of the athletic side of his game.

    On the plus side, he's a better player now than he was last season. His footwork is much better than it was, he's more composed than he was and he's got some real guts and courage about him. He takes some knocks but he'll pick himself up and will run at the same guy again. I'd never ever question his heart or his commitment. At the end of the day, all you can ask from a player is that they do their job to the best of their ability and he certainly does that whenever he plays.

    Anything that goes beyond that and is aimed at him personally is irrelevant. You see it on twitter and occasionally on here most weeks but it is what it is. He's an easy target and you tend to find that the ones who resort to personal stuff are the ones who'd run a mile from a Rugby League field and wouldn't dare say it to a players face. Some of the stuff I've seen from 'fans' of the club aimed at various individuals is sickening to be honest but if resorting to personal insults from behind a screen helps them mask their own insecurities... well it's their life that is the problem.
    In terms of the personal stuff, I've never really understood that. He never signed himself, and he has never picked himself so it's not really his fault that he is in this position.

    He tries, he does his best but purely based on ability he shouldn't be at Saints. He is hardly going to say dont pick me I'm not good enough 😁 if KC is saying he is then he'll go out there and do his best.

    Not his fault, so no, you're right, it shouldn't be personal and it's sad when it gets that way.

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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tez the Saint View Post
    The harsh reality is, he's not quick enough, big enough or athletic enough to play on the wing for one of the top clubs. There's no shame in that but he'll always be one of those players where his absolute best won't quite be good enough because of the athletic side of his game.

    On the plus side, he's a better player now than he was last season. His footwork is much better than it was, he's more composed than he was and he's got some real guts and courage about him. He takes some knocks but he'll pick himself up and will run at the same guy again. I'd never ever question his heart or his commitment. At the end of the day, all you can ask from a player is that they do their job to the best of their ability and he certainly does that whenever he plays.

    Anything that goes beyond that and is aimed at him personally is irrelevant. You see it on twitter and occasionally on here most weeks but it is what it is. He's an easy target and you tend to find that the ones who resort to personal stuff are the ones who'd run a mile from a Rugby League field and wouldn't dare say it to a players face. Some of the stuff I've seen from 'fans' of the club aimed at various individuals is sickening to be honest but if resorting to personal insults from behind a screen helps them mask their own insecurities... well it's their life that is the problem.
    That's a pretty fair assessment. Sport can be cruel sometimes.
    Either, youngsters don't kick on physically or the opportunity isn't there for you at a particular club.

    As fans on here we can only give our opinion on what we see but there's no need for personal insults.

  8. #33
    In The South Stand Sean Day's Avatar
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    He has ended up playing far more games than we envisaged I think due to injuries. However, if he sees the shirt through to a point when Regan Grace is ready to take over then he'll have served his purpose in some ways. He's a brave lad and has had to put up with a lot of stick, so credit to him for that at least

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    It's quirky the way things work out in sport.

    Because he broke into the Widnes side as a youngster he was placed on the wing as a stop gap.
    So we're now looking at him as a winger but if in his formative years someone had given him a No 9 shirt and trained him as dummy half we may have been hailing him as the next James Roby

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onetimepost View Post
    Wow. Yeah. Owens is great.

    Seriously.
    He scored a try I could have scored. This is why I wanted a Warrington win. Suddenly everything is great
    I despair.


    Call yourself a fan?

    I would NEVER EVER wish for us to lose a game, regardless of the opponents or subtext.
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onetimepost View Post
    Wow. Yeah. Owens is great.
    Seriously.
    He scored a try I could have scored. This is why I wanted a Warrington win. Suddenly everything is great
    It's these thoughtful intellectual posts that keep me on Redvee. I have learnt so much from you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulx2 View Post
    I agree and as nice as it is to see someone improve and make lots of effort we, as a club, want to win things and i just don't think it is possible to win things if you have a player of that calibre in your squad never mind the first team
    With the possible exception of 2006, we had very average squad members who played a similar sort of role to Owens throughout our decade of success.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    With the possible exception of 2006, we had very average squad members who played a similar sort of role to Owens throughout our decade of success.
    Can you name a few who were as poor as Owens?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southport Saint View Post
    Can you name a few who were as poor as Owens?
    Steven Tyrer, Dom Feaunati, Ian Hardman, Tom Armstrong come close but these are not really regular wing first choice players, where as Jack Owens seems to be judged as though he is.
    Last edited by STIDDY; 26th March 2017 at 12:23.

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    Gray Viane, Paul Davison, Ricky Bibey, Chris Dean, Matty Dawson, Bryan Henare, Stuart Howarth, Brett Goldspink, Stuart Jones, Dom Peyroux, Lama Tasi

    The list goes on!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    With the possible exception of 2006, we had very average squad members who played a similar sort of role to Owens throughout our decade of success.

    And even when we won the LLS and grand final in 2014 we had some less than stellar performers during that season

    Flanagan, hohaia, laffranchi......
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Steven Tyrer, Dom Feaunati, Ian Hardman, Tom Armstrong come close but these are not really regular wing first choice players, where as Jack Owens seems to be judged as though he is.
    But surely players are brought in with a view to one day forcing their way into or having to play in the first team and Jack unfortunately isn't good enough for Superleague.

    If you follow the logic that he is "just a squad player" so he shouldn't really be judged as if he is a first teamer then that should basically mean sign your first 17 of quality and the rest can be practically amateurs because we don't expect much from them and if they have to fill in they will practically be doing us a favour so don't comment on their ability because although we signed them we never ever wanted or expected them to ever play.

    My point is, if he is the best wing cover we have then we are snookered cause our wingers aren't even injured but he is in!

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    Completely agree on makinson.

    Better full back than lomax. I wasn't quite sure how lomax got into England as full back. His defence isn't good enough.

    I think lomax could do a great job instead of Lee at hooker. Maybe given his injuries this would be a bit more realistic.

    And apparently we have a young talented winger that's being kept out because of Owens.
    That isn't bullying. It's absolutely shocking that this guy can be in the team ahead of anyone.

    Richardson would be 10 times better that Owens on the wing.

    This is all directed at KC. He's the one that picks him.

  19. #44
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    The question for me is- is it better to play Owens or Regan Grace?

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    The question for me is- is it better to play Owens or Regan Grace?
    If you had been at the reserves game yesterday then you wouldn't even ask that question.
    Grace was awful, so many errors, then with his pace didn't back himself when one on one with the fullback.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    The question for me is- is it better to play Owens or Regan Grace?
    We will never know until we try Grace.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onetimepost View Post
    .....I wasn't quite sure how lomax got into England as full back....I think lomax could do a great job instead of Lee at hooker....And apparently we have a young talented winger that's being kept out....Richardson would be 10 times better that Owens on the wing.
    The more you post, the more idiotic you appear. Having said that, perhaps

    - you are a better judge of players than Wayne Bennett;

    - you can explain how someone whose defence you deem not good enough can play at hooker where 40-60 tackles per game is the normal requirement;

    - you can devise defensive structures that would protect a speedy but small winger with current frailties in tackling and defusing bombs;

    - explain what talents Richardson has shown to make you think that he can perform adequately on the wing when he has yet to prove himself as a first team halfback despite having been developed for that role for several seasons.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulx2 View Post
    But surely players are brought in with a view to one day forcing their way into or having to play in the first team and Jack unfortunately isn't good enough for Superleague.

    If you follow the logic that he is "just a squad player" so he shouldn't really be judged as if he is a first teamer then that should basically mean sign your first 17 of quality and the rest can be practically amateurs because we don't expect much from them and if they have to fill in they will practically be doing us a favour so don't comment on their ability because although we signed them we never ever wanted or expected them to ever play.

    My point is, if he is the best wing cover we have then we are snookered cause our wingers aren't even injured but he is in!

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    He was just signed as a squad player and not to replace Makinson or Swifty as first choice, albeit the opportunity is there if he has the desire or the correct coaching to develop for first 17 selection. We,ve been here many times before when we have squad players find it difficult to break into the team when we don't suffer too much from an injury crisis. Dean, Ashurst, Dixon, Emmitt, Gaskell etc etc were considered not Superleague standard but they have or had a career in Superleague.

    Owens is just a back up winger probably on a low salary and the coaching staff see him as a better option than Regan Grace. Owens has improved his game and less of a liability than last season, still not good enough for 1st choice but other options are limited. I don,t think Grace will get many games in super league pure pace is not enough you need bulk and strength as well for todays game.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    He was just signed as a squad player and not to replace Makinson or Swifty as first choice, albeit the opportunity is there if he has the desire or the correct coaching to develop for first 17 selection. We,ve been here many times before when we have squad players find it difficult to break into the team when we don't suffer too much from an injury crisis. Dean, Ashurst, Dixon, Emmitt, Gaskell etc etc were considered not Superleague standard but they have or had a career in Superleague.

    Owens is just a back up winger probably on a low salary and the coaching staff see him as a better option than Regan Grace. Owens has improved his game and less of a liability than last season, still not good enough for 1st choice but other options are limited. I don,t think Grace will get many games in super league pure pace is not enough you need bulk and strength as well for todays game.
    Fair enough but he had a lot of game time last year, and looks like he will have a lot this year. If i had been KC i wouldn't have replaced Dawson with Owens, it almost seems pointless.

    I would see Owens as cover for the cover if you know what i mean but it seems he is higher up the pecking order than that and that is too high up the pecking order. Just my opinion but i can see your point

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  25. #50
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    So you think lomax is a better defensive fullback than makinson?

    Yeah. I know more about selecting a side than Wayne bennet. THATS WHAT I SAID?

    Richardson shown enough in the first game that he would be a better option on the wing than Owens
    What's going on. We got all KCs friends and family posting now or has everyone just completely changed their mind after one game.

    At least I stick to my own opinion instead of following the trend like sheep.

    The fact that a thread was started because he didn't make any errors shows how bad he is.
    Why is that good enough for saints. Even as backup saints players should be better and I think there are better options.

    Also agree on Dawson. I liked him. For back up he was actually good.

    I'm not saying lomax can't tackle. I'm saying he is not as good a defensive fullback than makinson.
    Lomax is talented and I certainly would want to leave him out the team.
    And yes I do think he would be better at hooker than Lee.

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