It's not 2 games tho is it ???
He inherited a league winning side and has steadily gone backwards through a combination of terrible recruitment, lack of ability to motivate players and a total pig-headed approach to sticking to a gameplan that is clearly not working.
Anybody who believes he has the nouse to turn us around needs to give their head a wobble in my opinion.
Second game of the season, but Cunningham has had sixty-odd games in charge of the team and things are only getting worse. Do you think the slate should be wiped entirely clean at the start of every season, and we all just forget about everything that happened in previous years?
This isn't anything new, it's confirmation (as if it were needed) that he's incapable of coaching a top flight SL club.
It isn't working, it will never work, so I wish we'd just get rid, like ripping a plaster off or pulling a loose tooth. There's no easy way to do it. Just do it quickly and respectfully and let's all remember what an incredible, iconic player he was.
My feelings exactly. I used to hate us losing especially when we've played well and lost it.
However nowadays I'm not even angry I just accept it, we aren't an enjoyable side to watch. We didn't deserve to come away with anything last night and the performance was dreadful. We used to be able to have an off day and still come away with 2 points due to the class of the team. We're so far behind the likes of Wigan who seem to be able to play poorly and still pinch games at the death. P.s Peyroux should never pull on the red V again he is garbage.
If we'd managed to totally unjustly get something out of that game late on, you can guarantee Cunningham would have been calling it a classic. It's got to the point for me where, if we win, great! If we lose, so what, it's just another day closer to the genuine change that is so desperately needed.
All this "it's only 2 games in to the season" garbage just won't cut it, if I was seeing something entirely different, so new tactics and plays then yes I'd say let's hang on and see if it all clicks, but this is the same drivel he's been serving up for the last 2 seasons, nothing g has changed over the off season at all, this year's team last year's tactics.
You only have to take once look at the game savellio had to see the problem at this club nowadays, jobs for the boys, no plan B and no execution
I would be interested to see if the mods could drag up the old KC appointment thread and to read people's thoughts from 3 years ago.
I was very unimpressed with KC becoming head coach so early and felt he should go away and learn his trade in the lower leagues (like Darryl Powell after Leeds realised it was too early for him). He should be trying to find himself as a coach, trying different approaches, learning a management style, trying different game plans and styles of play in an environment with less pressure and where your mistakes are less likely to be punished every time. I'm not saying he won't be a great coach in the future, in all likelihood he will, but he has nailed his colours to a particular mast and at would appear Rushy and Eamon have backed him to the hilt regardless.
Having done a review of past seasons they have convinced themselves that they needed experience - so they have rid themselves of arguably two of the most talented young back rowers in the UK (amongst some dead wood admittedly). KC is still raising his flag everyday and promoting a brad of rugby that is, IMO, destroying the very DNA of our great club, a club that he served with distinction alongside some of the most attack minded players ever to pull on the red vee, and right there is the irony.
I have been fairly negative but I want the club to succeed. To do that, the fans have to be happy - how many posts have there been on here from people moaning about how much money they spent and the lack of value they got for their not inconsiderable outlay?
I don't know KC personally but from what I've seen, read and heard, he seems fairly subborn in his views. I remember reading Wayne Bennetts autobiography and he quotes someone "if you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting the sam result".
The team are capabale of change, whether KC is willing to is another matter. I'd just rather come away from the game having enjoyed the effort and skill on show. Don't die with the music in you.
It's like Groundhog Day. Same old nonsense, cringeworthy tactics, interviews and certain players above criticism. The Smith injury has given him some leeway with McManus you would imagine, but to hope a bang average scrum half, who we are paying star money to, to turn it around is laughable. Thurston or Cronk he is not.
http://www.redvee.net/forums/showthr...ach-discussion & http://www.redvee.net/forums/showthr...veal-New-Coach
Here you go!
And here's the KC new contract thread... http://www.redvee.net/forums/showthr...tends-contract
I didn't go to the game last night but I saw enough from the Leeds game our tactics and game plan was no different to last year. We was lucky to get the win against Leeds so Leigh beating us was no great surprise. If fans think having smith in the side will see us playing a more entertaining style then we really are in trouble. Smith is a very structured player who Cunningham brought in to execute his dire game plan.
I agree with fans who say KC should go and I am one of them, do we really want another season of at best finishing 3rd or 4th. Let's make the change now and we might salvage something from this season.
Ha ha ha my spelling isn't great
So I want to take a different perspective on this.
If KC had never got the job back in 2015 and we went and hired anyone, with no saints background, would he still be in the position today?
Pretend we are in the same situation today with Coach 'X' in-charge. With the style of play the fans are being subjected to, not just over the first few games of the season, but since his tenure began would another be given such confidence from the board?
Would we still be happy signing New Zealand Warriors reserve players whilst losing several promising youth players to rivals and the NRL?
Or would the club be happy with early challenge cup exits, several big routs and bottle every big game on offer (also never winning a Good Friday fixture) and persist with Coach X.
I personally loved KC as a player but his rugby philosophy doesn't sell tickets, bring in star players & doesn't win trophies. Should have been the end of the road when we got battered at home by Hull FC in the cup last year, but he will still be in charge until the 2020 at this rate.
1 thread is enough lets keep all discussion in one place on this subject
The worst thing for me about last night was that it wasn't a surprise. Over the past 2 years we've been subjected to plenty of performances like that and nothing appears to be changing. I genuinely felt sorry for the players the more field position we had in the second half, they clearly did not have a clue what to do to score against a Leigh side who have been pretty poor in defence for 2 games.
As we all know the club are obsessed with the grind which makes it even more outrageous that we constantly seem to be let down by the "middles". When we are bullied and can't go through the middle of sides we tend to look hopeless. Against 60/70% of sides our poor tactics will work eventually as we have one of the best packs in the league on paper and if we're playing a poor side or a side not at it they will get on top. However, whether it's an attitude or tactical problem, no matter how good our pack is under KC, it always seems to get dominated the minute the other teams forwards are up for it or play well. When this happens we end up just getting smashed in our own half with no clue how to get to the other side of the field (Wire away semi final a perfect example).
Imagine a doomsday scenarios where KC goes mid season and the successor has a season of struggle. Its interesting because the question would be under this scenario is the club willing to give the same time and support to their new coaching appointment that Cunningham enjoyed?
I've said it a few times on here but the club stinks of complacency from top to bottom.
The old boys club, poor recruitment, a coach who is extremely limited and a group of players that seem in love with being professional sportsmen but don't want to get stuck in when the chips are down.
Let's be honest, things aren't going to improve until there's a mass clear out at the club. I'm not sure what could happen to give McManus a kick up the arse but it needs to happen pretty quickly.
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It a moo point really, we can rant, rave, chant, etc but Cunningham will never be sacked! It's simple as that. Saints have gone from being entertaining and dangerous where teams worry about playing us, to a joke. Since Cunningham took over we have gone backwards week on week, crashing out of the challenge cup early each year, taking some heavy defeats against poor sides, and now giving Leigh their first win. Leigh are a good side but they shouldn't be beating saints it's simple as that, we should be able to beat teams that we expect to be in the dauldroms of the table but we can't.
At this rate saints will be and rightly so a top 8 team and no more, we won't make the top 4, have a decent cup run so fans should just accept it.
The club is an old boys network, the chairman hasn't the bottle to fire a club legend, and the longer it drags on the poorer we will become, no big names will arrive, no big coach will take over a team of has beens and egos.
Accept saints are a mid table team and will be for a long time to come.
Saints until i Die!!!!
I personally will not give up on this group of players I think the squad is perfectly as good if not better than the Cas squad who took Leigh and Wire apart.
I am afraid that we are going to do the same as we did last year but with different players which just will not work.I hope KC will swallow some pride and take some advice and actually watch how other teams play to change our style.
We were obviously complacent in the first 20 mins last night and that is simply not good enough right across the board.This needs to happen quickly because wakefield apart there are no easy games coming up.(not sure next friday will be easy either)
Learned comment from The Don
I agree with you that this squad of players is easily good enough to be a Top 3 team. But it's likely that we won't be, and that falls with the coach. I've gone way past calling for his head, because it won't happen and he is secure, so calling for our coach to quit or be sacked is not a game that is worth playing.
However, when people like you (and you know I value your opinions) say that he had a clean slate before the season it does us no favours because it lets him off for two seasons of underachievement. This is not a clean slate, it is a coach who has utter belief in his tactics and approach and will run them into a wall continuously because he believes it will eventually work, and he knows he will not be removed for them not working. That creates a massive problem.
I will ask these questions though. If we fired him or he quit would any of Wigan, Wire, Leeds, Cas or Hull want him the next time they were changing coach? Would he be in with a shout of the England job post-Bennett? Would any NRL clubs want him even as an assistant?
We all know the answers to those questions, so in reality we have a coach who is in place merely because of who he is and not because of what he can do. Anybody not named Keiron Cunningham would have been well gone by now, even if that person were called Wellens or Sculthorpe or another legendary ex player. He is a complete one off in terms of the time and support he is being given to run his flawed and failing ideas into a wall. We'll have to hope that the ability we have in our team can actually overcome the coaches tactics, and hope that we can achieve stuff in spite of him.
Terribly depressing business this, because I don't want to be saying this stuff, and have hated saying it for the last year as well.
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Agreed Gray
This is absolutely correct, however when we beat Wakefield next week KC will say how we are back on track and then the next game we'll probably lose and redvee will be exactly the same as this week and justifiably so...NOTHING EVER CHANGES with KC this is exactly the same crap served up last season. We'll have some decent wins and some poor defeats but will not challenge for silverware this season, top four will be very difficult this time around.
It's been said and said on here but recruitment has been poor under KC and I do not care what anybody says McManus would never stand for this lack of success and style of rugby under any other coach in world rugby, even Wayne Bennett would have been down the road