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Thread: Keirons Conundrum

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    For what it's worth I am a fan of his. I think last season he was messed around by KC so had no chance to show his true worth. I like his aggression in the tackle which he shows even when he has been quiet in other areas. I think he is suffering from Smiths injury, having paired with him through the whole off season to learn how to work with him (after being a bit part player, playing various roles last year) is now faced with having to pair up with a new player and possibly a young one.
    It seems that fans pick certain players who are fair (I say unfair game) game if they have a perceived poor game. Others, (Big Al and Robes) get nothing said when they don't perform.
    I could be wrong as like everyone it's just my (our) opinion but if KC let him have his head more as I think he is a 'play what he sees' type of player and not a structured guy he will be a good player for us. I accept his kicking decisions can be poor at times, but at least he is willing to take the ball and kick it and not hide.

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    Don't disagree with any of that. I personally like him but I do think he needs someone alongside who can boss the game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by djdegsy View Post
    I didn't see much of Fages at Salford.but he was very highly rated.would it be right to say he's going backwards since coming to saints.
    I wouldn't personally say he has gone backwards. In the games he did have last year he was largely promising and created quite a few tries. The trouble was he was in and out of the side so much that he never really got much momentum going. But neither did he get going much at Salford I don't think. Might be fair to say he hasn't massively kicked on since he came here but I wouldn't say he's gone backwards.
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    Why are we still talking about playing a veteran second rower who at scrum half who has already set himself up with his pension career ?. the players who have been coached to be genuine half backs should be played there , some of the posters on here wouldn't know what to do if Wilkin wasn't fit , I know play another old second rower , thatl do the job.

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    We have to go with Fages and Richardson.

    I will lose so much interest if I see Lee or Wilkin running out at 7 again. If that will be the case, he may as well move Richardson on and let him get first team football elsewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Don't disagree with any of that. I personally like him but I do think he needs someone alongside who can boss the game.
    Agree, and my hope was that Smith would have been that player (and still will in time). Thought Smith would control the game and allow Fages to be the guy who oposition teams are never sure what to expect. Now he might have to be the controller a bit more until Smith is fit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    Agree, and my hope was that Smith would have been that player (and still will in time). Thought Smith would control the game and allow Fages to be the guy who oposition teams are never sure what to expect. Now he might have to be the controller a bit more until Smith is fit.
    Yeah my thoughts exactly, and that's why I have some sympathy for those people saying Wilkin should play at 7, because without Smith we may be lacking in someone who can organise and control things. I'd still give Richardson and Fages the opportunity first though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Ged View Post
    Why are we still talking about playing a veteran second rower who at scrum half who has already set himself up with his pension career ?. the players who have been coached to be genuine half backs should be played there , some of the posters on here wouldn't know what to do if Wilkin wasn't fit , I know play another old second rower , thatl do the job.
    Flanagan - the halfback hero of 2014 - is sadly no longer at the club.

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    I haven't seen Richardson play but would like to see a real half back combination. However, aren't we jumping the gun a bit? Won't weather conditions have some impact on Cunningham's ultimate decision? Last year our opener was Huddersfield on a wet miserable night. We played "the grind" and, on that night, it was the right thing to do.

    In my view, Wllkinson might work best as first receiver if there are similar conditions and a forwards dominated game. Frosty, drier weather and a firm pitch and another combination might be right.

    From what I've read and the snippets I've seen from the Widnes game, Richardson needs to play for at least some of the time if only for his kicking game. I like Fages but in poor weather kicking for territory, even if we don't like it, will be important.

    A few people have posted that losing won't be important. I'll be crying into my beer if we lose!

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Yeah my thoughts exactly, and that's why I have some sympathy for those people saying Wilkin should play at 7, because without Smith we may be lacking in someone who can organise and control things. I'd still give Richardson and Fages the opportunity first though.
    When was the last time Wilkin organised and controlled a match, if he plays 7 against Leeds I shall probably watch Emmerdale

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southport Saint View Post
    When was the last time Wilkin organised and controlled a match, if he plays 7 against Leeds I shall probably watch Emmerdale
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    This wouldn't necessarily be my way of thinking but I'm surprised nobody has suggested pairing Wilkin and Richardson. Fages hasn't exactly set the world alight and I know there's people on here who aren't massive fans of his.

    Just throwing it out there.......
    I've been thinking the same but it won't happen. Jordan Turner made a big difference when he came in at 6 last year and Fages needs to step his game up now. To be fair, he was high on our assist chart (I think) but he bombs a hell of a lot of tries as well and his kicking game needs to improve as well, long especially.

    If I was Richardson I'd be after his spot though whether he starts the year or not. Whether we bring in a 6 for next year remains to be seen but when Richardson gets his chance (at the start of the season or later on) he should have his eye on Fages' jersey and push him for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southport Saint View Post
    When was the last time Wilkin organised and controlled a match, if he plays 7 against Leeds I shall probably watch Emmerdale
    He is more proven and organising and controlling things at this level than Fages and Richardson are to be fair.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    I wouldn't personally say he has gone backwards. In the games he did have last year he was largely promising and created quite a few tries. The trouble was he was in and out of the side so much that he never really got much momentum going. But neither did he get going much at Salford I don't think. Might be fair to say he hasn't massively kicked on since he came here but I wouldn't say he's gone backwards.
    Interesting to see people discussing Fages. I think it's a big year for him. At 22/3 and with around 90 games under his belt I'd like to see him becoming a bit more of a force. Admittedly it doesn't help his cause when he's got a different half-back partner every other week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Ged View Post
    Why are we still talking about playing a veteran second rower who at scrum half who has already set himself up with his pension career ?. the players who have been coached to be genuine half backs should be played there , some of the posters on here wouldn't know what to do if Wilkin wasn't fit , I know play another old second rower , thatl do the job.
    I think it's only being talked about as the prospect of Tommy Lee at 7 is worse...I reckon so anyway.

    I hope we do go Fages /Richardson

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    I wouldn't personally say he has gone backwards. In the games he did have last year he was largely promising and created quite a few tries. The trouble was he was in and out of the side so much that he never really got much momentum going. But neither did he get going much at Salford I don't think. Might be fair to say he hasn't massively kicked on since he came here but I wouldn't say he's gone backwards.
    Fages last year went through a similar scenario that looks potentially what Richardson could go through now. Fages was earmarked to be the half back with Walsh, but KC changed tact and put Turner into project. I don,t think Fages got a decent run of games until around round 8 (not sure) then Walsh got injured. The Walsh/Fages partnership never got going, Fages played second fiddle until Turner or Walsh got injured.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southport Saint View Post
    When was the last time Wilkin organised and controlled a match, if he plays 7 against Leeds I shall probably watch Emmerdale
    dont that go of at 730 so you still be able make game for 8

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    2017 and still considering Wilkin as an option at 7 . Beggars belief.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    He is more proven and organising and controlling things at this level than Fages and Richardson are to be fair.
    How can they prove that they can organise and control things if they don't play, you write some crappy things on here to be fair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    2017 and still considering Wilkin as an option at 7 . Beggars belief.
    Yeah, it is a bit disappointing, especially since we should have some cash available with all the outgoings we've had. We seem to have gone from the sublime to the ridiculous. Last season a large number of players, many of whom weren't fit to wear the shirt, this season, an injury to our playmaker and the answer's Jon Wilkin. I admire Wilkin and he does have a role to play but......................................Whatever happened to the old adage, "If you're old enough, you're good enough"? Wigan don't hesitate to blood their youngsters, neither should we.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benidorm John View Post
    How can they prove that they can organise and control things if they don't play, you write some crappy things on here to be fair.
    You probably should read the full thread before making silly posts like this.

    Fages has played for us many times but hasn't yet proved he is the type to organise and lead a side. The intention this year was for Smith to do that job and allow Fages a slightly freer role if you like. Richardson is obviously completely untested and therefore unproven at this level.

    Therefore if people wanted a tried and tested player at 7 alongside a younger and inexperienced 6 then Wilkin would make sense. That was the point I was making. You'll see elsewhere in the thread that my personal preference would be for Fages and Richardson to play together next week. However I was just seeing things from the other point of view and debating both sides rationally and maturely.

    If you believe that is "crappy" then I won't lose much sleep over it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    2017 and still considering Wilkin as an option at 7 . Beggars belief.
    This is one of the most pertinent posts in this thread. If recruitment (in and out) had given us better back up options in the halves - Keiron wouldn't have this conundrum. It would be just a case of going with our back up option(s) until the first choice was back and fully fit.

    That being said, it's not the situation we're in and I would give Richardson a go.

    If there's money left in the pot, I think Smith's injury has shown we have weakest backup options in the halves. We are in need of at least one experienced playmaker. Most other positions we are covered - some better than others.

    There were options which we (rightly or wrongly) didn't go for, e.g. Brown et al, and there still may be scope to bring someone in during the season. Best we can do in the meantime is put a combination in there, whoever that may be, and stick with them for a good run of matches - barring any more injuries.

    But, yes - Div hits the nail on the head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southport Saint View Post
    When was the last time Wilkin organised and controlled a match, if he plays 7 against Leeds I shall probably watch Emmerdale
    Believe me I was hoping we had seen the last of Wilkin at HB. But, this comment is a bit unfair, he has at times been our best option at 7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    One thing's for sure, it's a difficult and possibly crucial decision, and whoever he goes with, if we happen to lose many will be calling for KC's head on a plate.
    I think its even gone past the win/lose thing.............I think a lot would put up with losing 2 or 3 out of the first 4 or 5 if we are going about it in an entertaining way. I think even if we win but do so playing the stuff we have been playing the past couple of seasons (bar a few games here and there) then the knives will still be out. Add to that playing sterile stuff and losing................well the writing could well be on the wall.

    If I were KC I would go for the expansive stuff and at least get the fans onside but I fear he prefers to win at all costs, anyway he can.............and lets face it, he is a winner and has always been a winner, so it probably is the single most important thing in the equation, but unfortunately, it could be the thing that does for him in the end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    This wouldn't necessarily be my way of thinking but I'm surprised nobody has suggested pairing Wilkin and Richardson. Fages hasn't exactly set the world alight and I know there's people on here who aren't massive fans of his.

    Just throwing it out there.......


    Quote Originally Posted by The frenchman View Post
    With the halves. For me it's Richardson and fages. Next Wilkin with one of those 2 and I'd throw long in at 7 before Lee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The frenchman View Post
    I stand corrected!
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